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  1. #76
    Believe.
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    yeah, i dont think its ever a good thing to have people here that arent do ented or in the system. the goal should be to get everyone do ented so they can start paying taxes.

    and going forward, to streamline the process and make it easier for people to come in. the median age in the US in 1970 was 28. the median age now is 38. immigration helps us get younger, too. get more people paying into social security, etc. its not like the country is overpopulated and has no room for more people.
    I don't disagree with immigration, just that the government should not reward people who are not respecting the law. I also think that bringing people who are willing to accept lower wages doesn't help employees negociate better wages

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  3. #78
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Millions of illiterate, penniless economic migrants destined to become financial wards of the state is OK with you? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that it's a problem.
    Pretty much everybody in this nation has been there at some point in the family tree, tbh...

    Also, do you have numbers about them being 'financial burdens of government'? Because in my experience the vast majority of them are 10x more hard workers than the illiterate, penniless economic american who are largely indeed a financial burdens of government...

  4. #79
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    If these millions of illegal immigrants walking up from Central America are all rainbows and unicorns, why do we even need borders?
    Last edited by CosmicCowboy; 09-17-2021 at 12:51 PM.

  5. #80
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    dated, but the figures come from the US census

    the rate of incarceration for native born citizens is way higher

    Debunking the Myth of Immigrant Criminality: Imprisonment Among First- and Second-Generation Young Men


    Tellingly, among the foreign born, the highest incarceration rate by far (4.5 percent) was observed among island-born Puerto Ricans, who are not immigrants as such since they are U.S. citizens by birth and can travel to the mainland as natives. If the island-born Puerto Ricans were excluded from the foreign-born totals, the national incarceration rate for the foreign born would drop to 0.68 percent.


    Of particular interest is the finding that the lowest incarceration rates among Latin American immigrants are seen for the least educated groups: Salvadorans and Guatemalans (0.52 percent), and Mexicans (0.70 percent). These are precisely the groups most stigmatized as "illegals" in the public perception and outcry about immigration.
    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...eration-young/

  6. #81
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    If these millions of illegal immigrants walking up from Central America are all rainbows and unicorns, why do we even need borders?


  7. #82
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    If these millions of illegal immigrants walking up from Central America are all rainbows and unicorns, why do we even need borders?
    Because you want them in the system, not in the shadows...

    But if your honest with your outrage, you don't want them at all...

  8. #83
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    That's no ing surrender. Naturally you will defend every left wing liberal position to the death but any immigration statistics you may quote all predate the massive influx we are now seeing from Central America. Adding 2 million plus poor, illiterate immigrants every year plus the children they spawn can't possibly be in our best interests. And yeah, they still use Medicaid and WIC.

  9. #84
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Because you want them in the system, not in the shadows...

    But if your honest with your outrage, you don't want them at all...
    True. I don't want these walkups. I'm absolutely fine with educated contributors to society like yourself who did it right.

  10. #85
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Also, I don't see the outrage here with Felito going for a photo op and whine, and doing absolutely nothing about it. Maybe he was on his way to Cancun?

    I know that's exactly the same thing he does with Texans, but pointing fingers at just one side looks disingenuous...

  11. #86
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I don't give a about cheap labor. The cheapest guy on my payroll makes $24 hr + 401K match + 100% insurance premium for employee and family. letting these ignorant s from Central America overrun our country is just stupid as .
    Ah. And there it is.

    All illegal immigrants from Central America are "ignorant s" who are "overrunning" our country of 330,000,000.

    The neighbors I had who were illegals from Central America never struck me as "ignorant s", nor did their kids who went to school with mine.

    The best economic data I have seen about the net effect of such immigration says that they offer a net benefit to the economy to the tune of 90k each to GDP (net present value of all future cash flows) each.

    90,000*200,000*12 = 216,000,000,000

    So the OP is worried that adding 216Bn in economic growth that otherwise wouldn't occur is going to "overrun" us.

    Scary brown people (insert creepy violin music here)!!!

    "we're not racist, but..."

  12. #87
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    True. I don't want these walkups. I'm absolutely fine with educated contributors to society like yourself who did it right.
    Exactly. Even in the most rational economic and social argument you wouldn't take it because you're supposed to be incensed about it. So you're doing a good job in your role.

    Thanks for the compliment, tbh

  13. #88
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with immigration, just that the government should not reward people who are not respecting the law. I also think that bringing people who are willing to accept lower wages doesn't help employees negociate better wages
    you look at it as reward=bad, i look at it as being impractical to go around trying to apprehend and deport millions of people already here

  14. #89
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Ah. And there it is.

    All illegal immigrants from Central America are "ignorant s" who are "overrunning" our country of 330,000,000.

    The neighbors I had who were illegals from Central America never struck me as "ignorant s", nor did their kids who went to school with mine.

    The best economic data I have seen about the net effect of such immigration says that they offer a net benefit to the economy to the tune of 90k each to GDP (net present value of all future cash flows) each.

    90,000*200,000*12 = 216,000,000,000

    So the OP is worried that adding 216Bn in economic growth that otherwise wouldn't occur is going to "overrun" us.

    Scary brown people (insert creepy violin music here)!!!

    "we're not racist, but..."
    you. I'm not scared of brown people, but there are NO STATISTICS on immigrant benefits with the the volume of illegal crossings we are getting now.

  15. #90
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That's no ing surrender. Naturally you will defend every left wing liberal position to the death but any immigration statistics you may quote all predate the massive influx we are now seeing from Central America. Adding 2 million plus poor, illiterate immigrants every year plus the children they spawn can't possibly be in our best interests. And yeah, they still use Medicaid and WIC.
    (shrugs)

    What we are seeing is pent up demand built up in four years of almost total lockdown of legal paths to immigration.

    Shut down the legal pathways, and people start taking other options.

    If people and their kids want to come here, and by and large work their asses off, then have kids who do better than they did, that is a net gain in my book.

    People are some of the most important assets of any country, and our birth rates are declining anyway.

    Absent immigration, our economy stagnates, just like Japans.

    and at this point, if they grow up and their citizen kids remember that racist heads like you called their parents "ignorant s" and they start voting for Democrats, ing open the floodgates. I want as much as we can get, IMO, so that we get more and more votes to counter yours.

    Suck it, you bigoted asshole.

  16. #91
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    Welcome all

  17. #92
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    you. I'm not scared of brown people, but there are NO STATISTICS on immigrant benefits with the the volume of illegal crossings we are getting now.
    https://phys.org/news/2020-05-econom...-outweigh.html

  18. #93
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    That's no ing surrender. Naturally you will defend every left wing liberal position to the death but any immigration statistics you may quote all predate the massive influx we are now seeing from Central America. Adding 2 million plus poor, illiterate immigrants every year plus the children they spawn can't possibly be in our best interests. And yeah, they still use Medicaid and WIC.
    at a signifcantly lower rate than poor, illiterate Americans.

    must be a cultural thing.

  19. #94
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    you. I'm not scared of brown people, but there are NO STATISTICS on immigrant benefits with the the volume of illegal crossings we are getting now.
    "they are overrunning us" = scared language.

    You dont' see those statistics, because of the concerted effort of anti-immigration groups to "flood the zone" with studies that pretty much show only costs, and never talk about benefits.

    You suck at critical thinking and never ask WHY that is. It is propaganda meant to show only one side of the story, and get people like you worked up. So here we are.

  20. #95
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    The Democratic mayor of Del Rio seems to think its a problem.

  21. #96
    Believe.
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    you look at it as reward=bad, i look at it as being impractical to go around trying to apprehend and deport millions of people already here
    That's why the US should increase the number of H1B visas to allow people to enter the country properly. People won't try to enter illegally if there is a legal way to do it.

    This issue alone will ensure that democrats will lose the next elections.

  22. #97
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    you. I'm not scared of brown people, but there are NO STATISTICS on immigrant benefits with the the volume of illegal crossings we are getting now.
    Conclusion

    Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, legal or illegal, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth. Moreover, as baby boomers have begun moving into retirement in advanced economies around the world, immigration is helping to keep America comparatively young and reducing the burden of financing retirement benefits for a growing elderly population. While natives bear some upfront costs for the provision of public services to immigrants and their families, the evidence suggests a net positive return on the investment over the long term.
    https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.ed...states-economy

  23. #98
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Description
    The Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration finds that the long-term impact of immigration on the wages and employment of native-born workers overall is very small, and that any negative impacts are most likely to be found for prior immigrants or native-born high school dropouts. First-generation immigrants are more costly to governments than are the native-born, but the second generation are among the strongest fiscal and economic contributors in the U.S. This report concludes that immigration has an overall positive impact on long-run economic growth in the U.S.
    https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/th...of-immigration

  24. #99
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    (shrugs) yep. blue team votes at any cost.

  25. #100
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    If you only look at the costs... of course you will think it is a drain. Only looking at the costs = propaganda bull . IMO driven in no small part from pure racism, based on the kinds of s who do these studies.

    When both costs and benefits to the economy are considered, the positives outweigh the negatives by any balanced study I have read, and can find now.

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