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  1. #1
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Another take on Kobe vs. Lebron, but this time specifically around specific attributes:

    https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/...-basketball-iq

    Mark Jackson, one of the most cerebral players and greatest coaches ever, sided with Kobe's mentality over Lebron James' basketball IQ, citing that would make him successful in life rather than just basketball.

    it's a great read, from THE greatest basketball mind alive - Mark Jackson.

  2. #2
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Lebron higher basketball IQ than Kobe? Think this is just an elaborate way of saying James is less selfish but that ties into the fundamental difference in their positions - PG vs SG.

  3. #3
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    kobes mentality because he will be more successful in life?

    hm thats a very interesting take

  4. #4
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Lebron higher basketball IQ than Kobe? Think this is just an elaborate way of saying James is less selfish but that ties into the fundamental difference in their positions - PG vs SG.
    Agreed.

    Just because his shot selection often sucked, people assume that Kobe did not have a high basketball IQ. Wrong.

    Lebron will likely finish the all time leader in points and might even finish 2nd in assists. So ultimately he moves above Kobe and Kareem thanks to incredible longevity. But was his IQ greater than Kobe's? Not so sure.

  5. #5
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    Just because his shot selection often sucked, people assume that Kobe did not have a high basketball IQ. Wrong.

    Lebron will likely finish the all time leader in points and might even finish 2nd in assists. So ultimately he moves above Kobe and Kareem thanks to incredible longevity. But was his IQ greater than Kobe's? Not so sure.
    So what’s the angle of Kobe having a higher, or even equal, bball iq when compared to lebron? Lebron on the court is devastating. He rarely makes incorrect decisions, involves his teammates and is one of the best GMs of his generation.

    Kobe is famous for shooting fade away threes over a triple team, running off shaq and mentally abusing mvpau.

  6. #6
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Agreed.

    Just because his shot selection often sucked, people assume that Kobe did not have a high basketball IQ. Wrong.

    Lebron will likely finish the all time leader in points and might even finish 2nd in assists. So ultimately he moves above Kobe and Kareem thanks to incredible longevity. But was his IQ greater than Kobe's? Not so sure.
    what good is knowledge if it isnt put to use?

    yes, kobe had an incredible knowledge of the game of basketball, but he often misused it or didnt use it at all by frequently making poor decisions offensively and defensively

    so if basketball iq is based on how knowledge is used when actually playing the game of basketball, then yes lebron clearly had a higher iq than kobe ever did, even if their pure knowledge was perhaps at comparable levels

  7. #7
    adolis is altuve’s father monosylab1k's Avatar
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    There’s 3 at the top.

    Jordan is the greatest.

    Kobe is the most skilled.

    LeBron is the most talented.

  8. #8
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Cryants "incredible mental toughness."


  9. #9
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    what good is knowledge if it isnt put to use?

    yes, kobe had an incredible knowledge of the game of basketball, but he often misused it or didnt use it at all by frequently making poor decisions offensively and defensively

    so if basketball iq is based on how knowledge is used when actually playing the game of basketball, then yes lebron clearly had a higher iq than kobe ever did, even if their pure knowledge was perhaps at comparable levels
    Kobe put it to use, usually later in games when possessions became more crucial.

    And I have always thought you can make the right basketball play, but not necessarily the winning play. Often times Lebron was Magic Johnson in closing moments when they needed him to be more like Jordan. I think his awful free throw shooting has something to do with all that. So down 2 in the closing moments, he will dish to Kyle Korver instead of risking a embarrassing trip to the line.

  10. #10
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Kobe put it to use, usually later in games when possessions became more crucial.
    sometimes yes, sometimes no. he was inconsistent with it at best.

    And I have always thought you can make the right basketball play, but not necessarily the winning play. Often times Lebron was Magic Johnson in closing moments when they needed him to be more like Jordan. I think his awful free throw shooting has something to do with all that. So down 2 in the closing moments, he will dish to Kyle Korver instead of risking a embarrassing trip to the line.
    so i guess that means shaq should have been shooting more jumpshots in the clutch simply since hes supposed to make a "winning play" and be willing to take a bad shot simply because hes the "alpha"

    do you even think before you post the stupid crap you do?

  11. #11
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    So what’s the angle of Kobe having a higher, or even equal, bball iq when compared to lebron? Lebron on the court is devastating. He rarely makes incorrect decisions, involves his teammates and is one of the best GMs of his generation.

    Kobe is famous for shooting fade away threes over a triple team, running off shaq and mentally abusing mvpau.
    I don't know if Kobe had a higher bball IQ. I would say they are comparable. Lebron is a point forward and Kobe a SG. They will naturally have different mentalities and differ some on shot selection.

    But you are correct about the 2nd sentence in your post. Awful leader, imo. I'm still shocked he somehow won back to back in 09 and 2010.

  12. #12
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    sometimes yes, sometimes no. he was inconsistent with it at best.



    so i guess that means shaq should have been shooting more jumpshots in the clutch simply since hes supposed to make a "winning play" and be willing to take a bad shot simply because hes the "alpha"
    Thanks for proving my point about Lebron's flawed game. Even comparing his FT shooting to Shaq

    And Shaq had balls. He was alpha. Wasn't scared to go to the line like Lebron is regardless of his percentages.

  13. #13
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Thanks for proving my point about Lebron's flawed game.
    no one said his game was flawless. there is not one player ever that had a flawless game, but lebron is one who has among the fewest ever.

    Even comparing his FT shooting to Shaq
    i actually did not compare their FT shooting. just gave an example of someone with a noticeable weakness in their game, and that the argument of using a weakness to try to win games in clutch moments is a completely stupid idea. you have serious comprehension issues.

    And Shaq had balls. He was alpha. Wasn't scared to go to the line like Lebron is regardless of his percentages.
    lets not act like lebron hasnt hit clutch FTs when he needed to. hes literally sealed two different game 7s in the NBA finals with clutch free throws.

  14. #14
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    no one said his game was flawless. there is not one player ever that had a flawless game, but lebron is one who has among the fewest ever.



    i actually did not compare their FT shooting. just gave an example of someone with a noticeable weakness in their game, and that the argument of using a weakness to try to win games in clutch moments is a completely stupid idea. you have serious comprehension issues.



    lets not act like lebron hasnt hit clutch FTs when he needed to. hes literally sealed two different game 7s in the NBA finals with clutch free throws.
    I have a question for you, oh ye of infinite basketball knowledge, did you follow KG's career fairly closely?

  15. #15
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    I have a question for you, oh ye of infinite basketball knowledge, did you follow KG's career fairly closely?
    cut to the chase and make your crappy point

    let me guess, a dirk vs kg comparison?

  16. #16
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    cut to the chase and make your crappy point

    let me guess, a dirk vs kg comparison?
    Nice non answer.

    I will assume you did.

    So then, you must be real fond of how KG would constantly defer to players like Michael Olowakandi in the clutch.

    Lebron vs Detroit in 2007. That is who he often needed to be but decided not to be. He would have more accolades than Jordan right now and hands down the GOAT if he had a Kobe or Jordan type mentality and sacrificed some deferment for more assertion, regardless of who appeared to be some what open on such and such play. I know you are a huge fan of his and don't expect you to acknowledge any of this and just continue to stick to the script, though.

  17. #17
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Nice non answer.

    I will assume you did.

    So then, you must be real fond of how KG would constantly defer to players like Michael Olowakandi in the clutch.

    Lebron vs Detroit in 2007. That is who he often needed to be but decided not to be. He would have more accolades than Jordan right now and hands down the GOAT if he had a Kobe or Jordan type mentality and sacrificed some deferment for more assertion, regardless of who appeared to be some what open on such and such play. I know you are a huge fan of his and don't expect you to acknowledge any of this and just continue to stick to the script, though.
    again, you dont even know what you yourself have been saying

    many times you have talked about all these glaring weaknesses lebron has such as his abilities to shoot, inconsistent midrange game and underwhelming FT shooting

    yet you expect him to use the weak aspects of his game in the most important moments of a game, and you claim that by him using such weaknesses at such times that he would have more accolades than jordan

    please tell me how that makes sense

  18. #18
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    additionally, if you want to talk about the detroit series, look at how detroit guarded him in that game, compared to how teams like golden state and the spurs have guarded him in recent years

    detroit basically went straight 1v1 on defense and never adjusted

    the warriors and spurs would consistently provide weakside help at the rim and cut off driving lanes by shading other defenders off lebrons weaker teammates

    if lebron played in the 90s where he could enjoy 1v1 all game long, he would have easily been doing what he did against detroit to everyone

  19. #19
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    Confidence, Neo. It comes by conquering your fears. I look at this guy at times, like 2011 (and some of the 2013 Finals), and see someone who doubts himself too often. Say what you will about Kobe, but he never lacked in that department. Sometimes he exhibited maybe too much.

    But you appear to be more impressed by guys who play it safe and defer to Kyle Korver, etc. And that's okay and it's not a dig, actually, it's the right basketball play if you are going textbook. But it may also lead to a 4-6 Finals record, unfortunately.

    again, you dont even know what you yourself have been saying

    many times you have talked about all these glaring weaknesses lebron has such as his abilities to shoot, inconsistent midrange game and underwhelming FT shooting

    yet you expect him to use the weak aspects of his game in the most important moments of a game, and you claim that by him using such weaknesses at such times that he would have more accolades than jordan

    please tell me how that makes sense

  20. #20
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    additionally, if you want to talk about the detroit series, look at how detroit guarded him in that game, compared to how teams like golden state and the spurs have guarded him in recent years

    detroit basically went straight 1v1 on defense and never adjusted

    the warriors and spurs would consistently provide weakside help at the rim and cut off driving lanes by shading other defenders off lebrons weaker teammates

    if lebron played in the 90s where he could enjoy 1v1 all game long, he would have easily been doing what he did against detroit to everyone
    Yes, they did bring weakside help at times. And Lebron had opportunites to force the issue but did not and we know why he did not. And no I'm not saying he is supposed to be an idiot and run into crowd every play so please don't straw man; I'm saying you pick your spots and do so unafraid. He could have been more assertive at times and I think you realize that.

  21. #21
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Confidence, Neo. It comes by conquering your fears. I look at this guy at times, like 2011 (and some of the 2013 Finals), and see someone who doubts himself too often. Say what you will about Kobe, but he never lacked in that department. Sometimes he exhibited maybe too much.
    @ "confidence" being the solution

    But you appear to be more impressed by guys who play it safe and defer to Kyle Korver, etc. And that's okay and it's not a dig, actually, it's the right basketball play if you are going textbook.
    well he won 4 championships and 4 mvps doing it his way, so id say hes been quite successful

    But it may also lead to a 4-6 Finals record, unfortunately.
    not sure how a 4-6 record is an unfortunate thing. how many players ever have gotten 4 finals MVPs?

  22. #22
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Yes, they did bring weakside help at times. And Lebron had opportunites to force the issue but did not and we know why he did not. And no I'm not saying he is supposed to be an idiot and run into crowd every play so please don't straw man; I'm saying you pick your spots and do so unafraid. He could have been more assertive at times and I think you realize that.
    so basically your issue with him is that he didnt find a perfect balance

    newsflash: no one has. not even his airness. the closest ive seen is bird and duncan, but even they have had their flaws in that area through their careers.

  23. #23
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    I don't know if Kobe had a higher bball IQ. I would say they are comparable. Lebron is a point forward and Kobe a SG. They will naturally have different mentalities and differ some on shot selection.

    But you are correct about the 2nd sentence in your post. Awful leader, imo. I'm still shocked he somehow won back to back in 09 and 2010.
    So why would you say Kobe had comparable iq as Lebron? Running shaq off? Wanted to trade for kidd?

  24. #24
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    @ "confidence" being the solution



    well he won 4 championships and 4 mvps doing it his way, so id say hes been quite successful



    not sure how a 4-6 record is an unfortunate thing. how many players ever have gotten 4 finals MVPs?
    Yeah running to other franchises and stacking the deck is his way

    I suppose Durant will be the next one with 4 Finals MVP's thanks to bolting and stacking.

  25. #25
    Believe. Dirks_Finale's Avatar
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    So why would you say Kobe had comparable iq as Lebron? Running shaq off? Wanted to trade for kidd?
    I mean that's alpha ego stuff and not related to his BBall IQ, imo. And if a person wanted to make that argument, he ran Shaq off and won w/o him. And he did so without running away like Lebron and Durant did, so...

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