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  1. #1
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antoni...ung-right-now/

    A potential added bonus that didn't make the article: A trade might (depending on the specific trade and the timing of it) allow the Spurs to keep both KBD and Al-Farouq Aminu. Even though Aminu is probably washed up, his contract holds some value as an expiring deal. Otherwise, the Spurs will need to waive someone and eat more guaranteed money. They're already eating the contracts of Samanic, Hutchinson and the great DeMarre Carroll -- a fourth serving of that pie wouldn't be too appealing, tbh.

  2. #2
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    Can't the Spurs waive KBD and sign him to a two-way?

    What is even out there that doesn't involve 1+ player(s) coming back?

  3. #3
    Believe. Degoat's Avatar
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    I’m hoping the spurs find a way to get some value for back for Thad young but I just don’t know if it’ll happen. I think if something we’re to happen it would have happened by now

  4. #4
    Veteran pookenstein's Avatar
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    https://www.spurstalk.com/san-antoni...ung-right-now/

    A potential added bonus that didn't make the article: A trade might (depending on the specific trade and the timing of it) allow the Spurs to keep both KBD and Al-Farouq Aminu. Even though Aminu is probably washed up, his contract holds some value as an expiring deal. Otherwise, the Spurs will need to waive someone and eat more guaranteed money. They're already eating the contracts of Samanic, Hutchinson and the great DeMarre Carroll -- a fourth serving of that pie wouldn't be too appealing, tbh.
    Thanks. How likely do you think is a trade before the season?

  5. #5
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I'm going to write this as a series of responses to the article's headers.

    Thaddeus Young Isn’t a Good Fit on the Spurs

    Young is a good fit for the Spurs. Them having signed a bunch of worse centers doesn't change that. Collins doesn't fit. Eubanks and Landale should be competing for a spot instead of both being guaranteed one. But if the Spurs have the opportunity to get last year's Young, and all they have to give up is a replacement-level fourth-string big, how is this even a question?

    Of course, I agree that more than where Young plays, how he's used is a question. Ideally off the bench, he'd be the main facilitator. Pop seems to want to stagger Murray and White, and have them and Johnson dominate the ball when they're on the court. You can argue that will help with their development, though I'd question that given how many prospects there are on the team. But if the idea is for Pop to try to win games, then it's worth the investment to get his team to play a style that better fits Young's skill-set. It's not to make Thad look good, but the Spurs are going to need a productive bench if they're going to make up for their starters being raw. The key to the bench has long since been flow and cohesion. They have a few players who fit in really well with that kind of offense, and Pop should implement that if he's trying to compete for a playoff spot.

    Thaddeus Young’s Value Will Decrease if the Spurs Hold Onto Him

    Who cares? What value are we talking about? "The best they can get" being a second-rounder would mean there's basically no opportunity cost in keeping him. The Spurs already have three picks this year. I don't think missing out on say the Suns second-rounder is really going to hurt them. Of course, the "halfway interesting player" runs headlong into your bonus point, but we'll get there.

    Other Consideration When Trading Thaddeus Young

    So there are a number of better ways to get Vassell into the rotation. They should start him instead of McDermott. They should play Young at center. They could trade Walker or not play Forbes. They should just not play White and Murray like they're stars who have to stagger minutes and get the bulk of the court time so Pop can run a normal 10-man rotation. If their goal is to develop players, then they shouldn't put themselves in these false dilemmas. Nothing is preventing the Spurs from giving time to their best prospects. Certainly, they aren't struggling to find a way to develop their SG because of a backup PF.

    I like Eubanks and Landale, and they're fine depth. But they're not that young, and if they aren't better than Thad, then the team shouldn't be too concerned with giving them minutes. Either or Mark were very likely to be Spurs if the off-season played out the way it seems to have. So they went into the Collins negotiations knowing they were getting at least two bigs. Collins was an awful contract, especially seeing as they basically had Landale locked in. But the team can't compound that bad roster move by making bad rotation moves to cover up for it. Young didn't sneak up on the team. So if they have too many players, the goal should be to get rid of worse players at the overstocked positions, not keep them because of some misplaced sense of fairness.

    Young's on the team now and not part of the DeRozan or Kawhi (or Hill) deals. He needs to be judged on his own merits, not on how whatever return combos with the other trades.

    As far as the bonus goes: You know as well as any of us that the Spurs are extremely unlikely to trade Young without getting back salary. Most likely, they'd be getting back multiple players like Smith and Saric. If KBD or Aminu is the 16th man, then they aren't surviving a Young trade. What's a more likely scenario to save a spot would be if someone like Walker or Eubanks were included with Young to get back a single big salary, like Young and Walker for Barnes or Young and Aminu for Wiggins. Those scenarios keep KBD and don't involve waiving Aminu. But they do involve getting rid of one of the players trading Young is supposed to allow the Spurs to keep. So one could argue that just keep Young and moving on from that player makes more sense.

    I imagine the Spurs knew waiving these guys was an option when they acquired them, so I think they'd okay with eating more dead money. As far as I'm concerned, I think Aminu's expiring has utility that makes keeping him over some end-of-roster guys a legit question. I think we'd know the Spurs were planning to get rid of him already if they weren't still trying to avoid it. But just like how I don't care about the Holt's pocketbook, I don't care if the Spurs have dead money (this year) on their ledger if that's the result of them trying to put together the best team they can. That means keeping the best players and using them correctly. So eating Aminu's deal is fine by me, as would be eating Collins' deal or letting KBD, Eubanks or Landale go to a different team even though they're interesting players. They're going to have to be willing to move on and feel a bit of pain in their quest to get better. That's a far better alternative to messing up the rotation trying to make up for their mistakes.

  6. #6
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    While it's true that his fit on the current Spurs is iffy, I don't think his value would change significantly based on his time there. Any team trading for him would know exactly what they're getting. The problem is that most contenders can't trade any first round picks until 2028 and it wouldn't make much sense for middling teams to burn a first on him, so he'll probably fetch a couple of 2nds at best, unless a team gets desperate.

    Philly, post Simmons trade, would be the best trade partner. Phoenix is currently the most obvious destination, and they can trade their 2024 first, but it doesn't seem like they're in a hurry. He'd probably fit well in Atlanta as well, as a small ball center.

  7. #7
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    I imagine the Spurs knew waiving these guys was an option when they acquired them, so I think they'd okay with eating more dead money. As far as I'm concerned, I think Aminu's expiring has utility that makes keeping him over some end-of-roster guys a legit question. I think we'd know the Spurs were planning to get rid of him already if they weren't still trying to avoid it. But just like how I don't care about the Holt's pocketbook, I don't care if the Spurs have dead money (this year) on their ledger if that's the result of them trying to put together the best team they can. That means keeping the best players and using them correctly. So eating Aminu's deal is fine by me, as would be eating Collins' deal or letting KBD, Eubanks or Landale go to a different team even though they're interesting players. They're going to have to be willing to move on and feel a bit of pain in their quest to get better. That's a far better alternative to messing up the rotation trying to make up for their mistakes.
    Exactly. Who cares if they have dead money on the cap for this season. They're over the cap and way below the hard cap and tax.

    As for the last guy getting cut, are we sure Tre Jones is safe?

  8. #8
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Exactly. Who cares if they have dead money on the cap for this season. They're over the cap and way below the hard cap and tax.

    As for the last guy getting cut, are we sure Tre Jones is safe?
    I think Jones is pretty safe. If the Spurs had brought in a PG prospect they really liked with their second two-way slot, I'd be wondering. But it looks more like they're just trying out guys to be the emergency fill-in until Tre gets back. I'd find it far more likely that he's part of a trade than just straight cut. He's a good prospect at a thin position.

  9. #9
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I was going to reply that I actually disagree with timvp article here, then Chinook did it better. In summary, I actually think Young is our backup 5 against most team. Except probably game one, where the magic have multiple centers. Eubanks and landale are like depth 5. Playing when teams go big in the second unit or token starts when Poeltl can't play.

    Walker is the biggest enigma here. Spurs have leaked that they believe he has allstar talent. This is another issue with Johnson. I love the energy but it he can't become a dependable shooter, then the Spurs current big man depth is going to lose game value.

  10. #10
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    AminU is garbage. What exactly are we going to get in a deal for that unless anyone thinks a team wants his ass included in anything? Young hopefully can fetch something but of course spurs as usual will hold on too long

  11. #11
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    AminU is garbage. What exactly are we going to get in a deal for that unless anyone thinks a team wants his ass included in anything? Young hopefully can fetch something but of course spurs as usual will hold on too long
    It's not Aminu's value as a player, it's his mid-sized contract, which is valuable for trade purposes, especially if he can prove he's not a negative but, say, neutral.

  12. #12
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    It's not Aminu's value as a player, it's his mid-sized contract, which is valuable for trade purposes, especially if he can prove he's not a negative but, say, neutral.
    Aminu definitely wont be a positive especially on his own but maybe sours can attach him to something to make salaries work but thats about it. Young needs to be traded asap but we already knew that

  13. #13
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    My guess is a good trade hasn't materialized yet. The one with Phoenix for Saric and Smith got play, but that's not a great fit. As the season progresses, and especially if there are injuries, I can see teams recognize a need for him.

    I disagree with those who say he has a place on this team, given changes in tempo and points of attack.

  14. #14
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    Boston's trade exception is only for ~9-10 M. Can they send us cash to help match salaries?

  15. #15
    Believe.
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    I think the front office is going to eat Aminu’s deal and go forth with the rest of the roster. I was hoping they would move Thad for a pick or the opportunity to get an interesting young player attached with salary filler .

  16. #16
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    The way we signed so many guys to guaranteed deals it sure has the earmarks of a situation where the Spurs were anticipating a trade that didn't materialize.

    It Thaddeus isn't part of the plan for this young group, I think the fair thing to him would be to trade him. Last year he was still really good. I don't think it's a Demarre Carroll situation where there's nothing left in the tank. I think we just saw a veteran in the meaningless preseason who didn't get a lot of reps and is probably rounding into form. Older players seem to need a little more time to get the lubricant in the joints flowing, so I'd dismiss the preseason for him, personally.

    But, yeah, if the plan was to connect his signing to later trade that fell through, and now he'll rot on our bench, please, Pop, trade him now. Don't let his career end on a sour note.

  17. #17
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I think if an important big on a serious playoff team gets hurt mid-season, Young's value might actually go up. I'm guessing the Bucks, Lakers, or Nets would love to grab him to replace someone in that scenario. The hard part about Thaddeus right now-- especially since I've always liked him-- is that he would potentially make the very mediocre Spurs a slightly better team... but I don't know if playing a classy vet on this team matters. If it means the Spurs win 38 games instead of 33 and some young guys get fewer minutes and less development time, is it even worth it? Right now development is all that matters, at least to me.

  18. #18
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    Boston's trade exception is only for ~9-10 M. Can they send us cash to help match salaries?
    Don't they have about a $17M TE on the Fournier deal?

  19. #19
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    "Smart Move"


  20. #20
    Believe. Degoat's Avatar
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    Not that he automatically deserves playing time but I don’t want Thad young to get playing time over Jock Landale or Zach Collins when he returns

  21. #21
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    I wonder if Thad and the Detroit 2nd rd pick would bring back a low 1st rd pick?

  22. #22
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I wonder if Thad and the Detroit 2nd rd pick would bring back a low 1st rd pick?
    A high second rounder would be worth more that a low first, from a flexibility stand point. There is a very specific structure to first round pick contracts that you’re not bound to for second rounders, and the talent difference is negligible in most drafts. I’d rather flip him for another second than use ours to move up into the late first.

  23. #23
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Thaddeus Young Isn’t a Good Fit on the Spurs

    Young is a good fit for the Spurs. Them having signed a bunch of worse centers doesn't change that. Collins doesn't fit. Eubanks and Landale should be competing for a spot instead of both being guaranteed one. But if the Spurs have the opportunity to get last year's Young, and all they have to give up is a replacement-level fourth-string big, how is this even a question?
    I mean, yeah, if we could turn back the hands of time, I would have done things differently. I don't like the Zollins deal. I don't like that the Spurs have invested so much in the center position (both money-wise and roster spot-wise). But as it stands, the Spurs have purposefully signed four centers. I agree that Young is one of the two top centers on this team but the way this roster is built, it'd be weird to push Eubanks to 3rd string center, Landale to 4th string center and Zollins to 5th string center.

    Of course, I agree that more than where Young plays, how he's used is a question. Ideally off the bench, he'd be the main facilitator. Pop seems to want to stagger Murray and White, and have them and Johnson dominate the ball when they're on the court. You can argue that will help with their development, though I'd question that given how many prospects there are on the team. But if the idea is for Pop to try to win games, then it's worth the investment to get his team to play a style that better fits Young's skill-set. It's not to make Thad look good, but the Spurs are going to need a productive bench if they're going to make up for their starters being raw. The key to the bench has long since been flow and cohesion. They have a few players who fit in really well with that kind of offense, and Pop should implement that if he's trying to compete for a playoff spot.
    With how preseason played out, it's pretty clear that winning isn't the top priority. If winning was the top priority, preseason would have been spent figuring out how to integrate Young as the bench facilitator. Instead, the Spurs didn't run a single play for Young in the preseason.

    I don't disagree with much of what you posted but I'm basing my opinion off of the current realities as I see it.

    Thaddeus Young’s Value Will Decrease if the Spurs Hold Onto Him

    Who cares? What value are we talking about? "The best they can get" being a second-rounder would mean there's basically no opportunity cost in keeping him. The Spurs already have three picks this year. I don't think missing out on say the Suns second-rounder is really going to hurt them. Of course, the "halfway interesting player" runs headlong into your bonus point, but we'll get there.
    Basically, I want the Spurs to either use Young properly or trade him at his peak value. It's pretty clear they have no intention on maximizing Young's skills so trading him at his peak value is the only avenue left. The moment the regular season starts and Young is averaging 6, 3 and 2 or whatever, his value plummets to zero.

    Other Consideration When Trading Thaddeus Young

    So there are a number of better ways to get Vassell into the rotation. They should start him instead of McDermott. They should play Young at center. They could trade Walker or not play Forbes. They should just not play White and Murray like they're stars who have to stagger minutes and get the bulk of the court time so Pop can run a normal 10-man rotation. If their goal is to develop players, then they shouldn't put themselves in these false dilemmas. Nothing is preventing the Spurs from giving time to their best prospects. Certainly, they aren't struggling to find a way to develop their SG because of a backup PF.
    In theory, all of those solutions are possible but none of them appear likely. Not signing Forbes in the first place could have solved the issue. But they did. Now of those solutions you described, probably the most likely is trading Walker -- and that's not likely.

    I like Eubanks and Landale, and they're fine depth. But they're not that young, and if they aren't better than Thad, then the team shouldn't be too concerned with giving them minutes. Either or Mark were very likely to be Spurs if the off-season played out the way it seems to have. So they went into the Collins negotiations knowing they were getting at least two bigs. Collins was an awful contract, especially seeing as they basically had Landale locked in. But the team can't compound that bad roster move by making bad rotation moves to cover up for it. Young didn't sneak up on the team. So if they have too many players, the goal should be to get rid of worse players at the overstocked positions, not keep them because of some misplaced sense of fairness.
    Eh, Eubanks and Landale might not be young but they could be pieces that stick around for the next half decade. Young, even if things go well, wouldn't be re-signed (or at least shouldn't be re-signed) unless the Spurs win like 45+ games this season with Young playing as well as he did last season. Even then, do you want to re-sign a 34-year-old Young? I'm not sure I would.

    Overall, I see where you're coming from but after factoring in roster decisions (loading up on centers, re-signing Forbes to muddy the swingman waters, etc.) and what I saw in preseason (Young being an Al-Farouq Aminu-level afterthought), I think trading Young now is the best move. Otherwise, by far the most likely outcome is the Spurs buy out his contract at the trade deadline.

  24. #24
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    I mean, yeah, if we could turn back the hands of time, I would have done things differently. I don't like the Zollins deal. I don't like that the Spurs have invested so much in the center position (both money-wise and roster spot-wise). But as it stands, the Spurs have purposefully signed four centers. I agree that Young is one of the two top centers on this team but the way this roster is built, it'd be weird to push Eubanks to 3rd string center, Landale to 4th string center and Zollins to 5th string center.

    With how preseason played out, it's pretty clear that winning isn't the top priority. If winning was the top priority, preseason would have been spent figuring out how to integrate Young as the bench facilitator. Instead, the Spurs didn't run a single play for Young in the preseason.

    I don't disagree with much of what you posted but I'm basing my opinion off of the current realities as I see it.

    Basically, I want the Spurs to either use Young properly or trade him at his peak value. It's pretty clear they have no intention on maximizing Young's skills so trading him at his peak value is the only avenue left. The moment the regular season starts and Young is averaging 6, 3 and 2 or whatever, his value plummets to zero.

    In theory, all of those solutions are possible but none of them appear likely. Not signing Forbes in the first place could have solved the issue. But they did. Now of those solutions you described, probably the most likely is trading Walker -- and that's not likely.

    Eh, Eubanks and Landale might not be young but they could be pieces that stick around for the next half decade. Young, even if things go well, wouldn't be re-signed (or at least shouldn't be re-signed) unless the Spurs win like 45+ games this season with Young playing as well as he did last season. Even then, do you want to re-sign a 34-year-old Young? I'm not sure I would.

    Overall, I see where you're coming from but after factoring in roster decisions (loading up on centers, re-signing Forbes to muddy the swingman waters, etc.) and what I saw in preseason (Young being an Al-Farouq Aminu-level afterthought), I think trading Young now is the best move. Otherwise, by far the most likely outcome is the Spurs buy out his contract at the trade deadline.
    Buying out Young is the most likely outcome tbh.

  25. #25
    Veteran emanueldavidginobili's Avatar
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    Buying out Young is the most likely outcome tbh.
    A' la DeMarre Carroll, even though I think Young isn't anywhere close to washed as DC was.

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