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  1. #126
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Warriors declined the fourth year option on Kevon Looney, then signed him to a one year minimum, then signed him to a 3/15 deal
    Different situation because Looney had two hip surgeries back-to-back seasons and was stiff and in danger of being out of the league. He was more of a perimeter PF b4 the hip injuries but he had to adapt his game to play center and slim down plus get his body in the best shape. He turned things around for himself.

    Luka's problem is something else, but he's certainly young enough that he could be a late bloomer somewhere else. It will require him turning things around effort-wise kind of like Danny Green did after getting cut from CLE and the Spurs. Samanic is going to have to claw his way back in.

  2. #127
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    We did it “for the culture”
    Bottom line, this team is broken at every level except for maybe janitorial services.
    Including the decision to dissolve the Silver Spurs Dancers.

    Tsk tsk

  3. #128
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    He’s never shown he’s willing to put in the work. Not here, and not in Europe. It’s beyond naive to think that being released, and still paid will some how lead to introspection and change. He’s just really self centered, lazy, and en led, exactly the rep he had in Europe.
    You can’t tell me that a guy who transformed his body like he did over 2 years isn’t putting in the work.

  4. #129
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    He did put work into his body, and his defense was better over time, a lot better.

    I do think this showw one of the times that the line between being out of the league and career earnings over $50 million can come down to if a team can look past what happened with the previous team and coach a player up.

    What if he never had his hand broken and gets in 42 minutes of court time the last 2 regular season games last year instead of KBD? Was that the difference in him ending on a good note?

    Look at Ian:

    Pop by year 3 was completely out on him and was not interested in succeeding with him. Whether it was the ridiculous road game at Toronto where Pop had a sprained ankle Tim Duncan come off the bench in the second quarter after not playing in the first at all to keep Ian away from minutes, or how he fumed at the mistakes but gave no credit when he did play ... That was it. 4th year option declined, nobody wanted to trade for him.

    And if a guy couldn't play for the great Greg Popovich, after being a first rounder, he must suck, right?

    Ian was lucky in getting what I think was a two year minimum which might not even have been guaranteed. Better off than Samanic, but at least Ian had the shine of not finding a role on a good team. And supposedly a deciding factor in even signing Ian was him being good with Beaubois who the Mavs were still in love with at the time.

    And Ian got lucky again in that in his brief moment in the spotlight in the 2011 finals, he was able to shine. If he had been picked up by a lesser team, that opportunity never comes, and then maybe the future money never does either.

    From the 2 years minimum in Dallas he goes on to a 4/16 then the 4/64. $80 million in money that never happens if the Mavs don't ask, "What if Pop is wrong?"

    So maybe Samanic never clicks and goes back to Europe. He does have a hard road with a team that has established players in his way and a coach who has a history of not playing guys until forced to by cir stances, who never played Butler until everyone was hurt, who couldn't imagine getting Korver minutes and starts at the expanse of Keith Bogans or Ronnie Brewer.

    But I see the footage of him now and he just looks happier on the court. Poorer but more free. A happy player is an invested player, and if he's invested maybe he can improve his skills.

    Because despite his great stats in 3 games and looking good and happy, he still can't shoot threes (30.8%) or stop turning the ball over (5.0 per 36)

    But I still think he would have been more fun to watch than KBD tonight. Lost game no matter what but at least a couple of highlights for this trash team that few fans engage with any more.

  5. #130
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    LMA and a 1st rd pick are different. with LMA he had a high salary so Brooklyn signed him for much much less then they would have to if they traded for him. Also they would have to have given up players they had and not wanted.

    Luka on the other hand was not makeing much. yes they may still have to give up a player but it is much easier to find a low cost player then someone makeing as much as LMA.
    Give up a player? NO ONE WOULD SIGN HIM TO A MINIMUM NBA CONTRACT! You need to stop this fantasy that there was a trade to be had for him. Teams didn’t want him for as close to free as you can get in the NBA.

  6. #131
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    Different situation because Looney had two hip surgeries back-to-back seasons and was stiff and in danger of being out of the league. He was more of a perimeter PF b4 the hip injuries but he had to adapt his game to play center and slim down plus get his body in the best shape. He turned things around for himself.

    Luka's problem is something else, but he's certainly young enough that he could be a late bloomer somewhere else. It will require him turning things around effort-wise kind of like Danny Green did after getting cut from CLE and the Spurs. Samanic is going to have to claw his way back in.
    I agree 100% with the above post and I would also like to add that besides effort, Samanic needs to understand and embrace the role a coach gives him if given another shot in the NBA.

    I feel the biggest thing that hinders players on the cusp of making and earning actual NBA minutes is embracing roles. Most (if not all) of these players trying out for positions were the main go to guy on their (and an even lesser degree high school) college or foreign pro team, so they are used to getting volume shooting or ball handling opportunities. In the NBA (or best foreign leagues) only a few guys worldwide get that opportunity

    its a tough change for some

  7. #132
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    The Luka Debacle is a shared one. Equal parts Spurs for poor drafting and poor development, and equal parts of Luka being a difficult personality.

    He likely had mental health issues. He was young. Barely fit in here. Tough situation.

    But he did better over time developing his body and becoming part of the team.

    Pop tried to develop him like a role player and that approach needs to change.

    Beyond all that, I’m amused by the at ude some posters crapping on him now. Before it was “he needs three years, he’s a three year project!!”, now it’s all completely his fault. Again, to me, it’s a shared disaster.

  8. #133
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    He did put work into his body, and his defense was better over time, a lot better.

    I do think this showw one of the times that the line between being out of the league and career earnings over $50 million can come down to if a team can look past what happened with the previous team and coach a player up.

    What if he never had his hand broken and gets in 42 minutes of court time the last 2 regular season games last year instead of KBD? Was that the difference in him ending on a good note?

    Look at Ian:

    Pop by year 3 was completely out on him and was not interested in succeeding with him. Whether it was the ridiculous road game at Toronto where Pop had a sprained ankle Tim Duncan come off the bench in the second quarter after not playing in the first at all to keep Ian away from minutes, or how he fumed at the mistakes but gave no credit when he did play ... That was it. 4th year option declined, nobody wanted to trade for him.

    And if a guy couldn't play for the great Greg Popovich, after being a first rounder, he must suck, right?

    Ian was lucky in getting what I think was a two year minimum which might not even have been guaranteed. Better off than Samanic, but at least Ian had the shine of not finding a role on a good team. And supposedly a deciding factor in even signing Ian was him being good with Beaubois who the Mavs were still in love with at the time.

    And Ian got lucky again in that in his brief moment in the spotlight in the 2011 finals, he was able to shine. If he had been picked up by a lesser team, that opportunity never comes, and then maybe the future money never does either.

    From the 2 years minimum in Dallas he goes on to a 4/16 then the 4/64. $80 million in money that never happens if the Mavs don't ask, "What if Pop is wrong?"

    So maybe Samanic never clicks and goes back to Europe. He does have a hard road with a team that has established players in his way and a coach who has a history of not playing guys until forced to by cir stances, who never played Butler until everyone was hurt, who couldn't imagine getting Korver minutes and starts at the expanse of Keith Bogans or Ronnie Brewer.

    But I see the footage of him now and he just looks happier on the court. Poorer but more free. A happy player is an invested player, and if he's invested maybe he can improve his skills.

    Because despite his great stats in 3 games and looking good and happy, he still can't shoot threes (30.8%) or stop turning the ball over (5.0 per 36)

    But I still think he would have been more fun to watch than KBD tonight. Lost game no matter what but at least a couple of highlights for this trash team that few fans engage with any more.
    Shine in 2011 finals,
    Appeared in 3 games, 27 minutes, 9 points5 rebounds and 13 fould

  9. #134
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Exactly. So was PATFO working for the Nets or the Spurs on the LMA for nothing deal?

    Need more fuel to stoke your conspiracy theory fire?

    LMA’s last game for the Spurs was against - wait for it - the Nets. 03/01/2021. He played only 15 minutes, had 2pts and 4 rebs, coming off the bench.

    LMA’s first game for the Nets was exactly one month later. 04/01. He played 29:30, had 11 pts and 9 rebs. Starting!

    Play against a team, coming off the bench… exactly one month later, playing for them, starting.

    Conspiracy or coincidence? You decide. Lol

    (BTW, this was before the flare up of LMA’s heart condition. He has Wolff–Parkinson–White syndrome, which was diagnosed in 2007, after he had to be taken to the hospital during the 1st quarter of a Blazers game against the Clippers. He has had surgery for the heart condition at least once. His temporary retirement was on 4/15. It looks like the Nets’ medical people were not fully prepared to handle LMA’s heart condition, at that time.)

    In a thread about Samanic, and speaking of health, I thought he never looked very healthy. People speak of laziness and motivation, but does he have an NBA “motor”? I wonder.

  10. #135
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    Need more fuel to stoke your conspiracy theory fire?

    LMA’s last game for the Spurs was against - wait for it - the Nets. 03/01/2021. He played only 15 minutes, had 2pts and 4 rebs, coming off the bench.

    LMA’s first game for the Nets was exactly one month later. 04/01. He played 29:30, had 11 pts and 9 rebs. Starting!

    Play against a team, coming off the bench… exactly one month later, playing for them, starting.

    Conspiracy or coincidence? You decide. Lol

    (BTW, this was before the flare up of LMA’s heart condition. He has Wolff–Parkinson–White syndrome, which was diagnosed in 2007, after he had to be taken to the hospital during the 1st quarter of a Blazers game against the Clippers. He has had surgery for the heart condition at least once. His temporary retirement was on 4/15. It looks like the Nets’ medical people were not fully prepared to handle LMA’s heart condition, at that time.)

    In a thread about Samanic, and speaking of health, I thought he never looked very healthy. People speak of laziness and motivation, but does he have an NBA “motor”? I wonder.

    Additionally, Coach Pop sits on the left side of the aisle. The New Jersey Nets actually play in a borough of NYC called Brooklyn which is located in New York which is, you guessed it, traditionally a blue state! Furthermore both Patty Mills and Luka Samanic now reside in New York. Coincidence?

  11. #136
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    Shine in 2011 finals,
    Appeared in 3 games, 27 minutes, 9 points5 rebounds and 13 fould
    Yes, shine. He had a key basket I think at the end of the third in the final game against Miami, in a high pressure situation with the basketball world watching closely.

    This player who couldn't play for Pop was turned to in a clinching finals game and did his role for that brief moment. It probably got him his next deal a year later.

    High profile games with role players who do their job result in guys getting deals, even after another season and despite injuries.

    Carl Herrera was signed by Pop to a 3 year deal that adjusted for cap inflation was close to the 4/16 Ian ended up getting. Both were over a season past their finals play except Herrera had a wrecked shoulder.

    Someone now would look back at Herrera on Basketball Reference against the Knicks and say, "So what, he plays like 17 minutes a game off the bench and gets 11 points or so a couple of times?"

    But the people who actually watched the games saw him play his role and remembered, he even had some hype before the injuries due to that performance.

    Pop wasn't giving him 3 years guaranteed to be nice. And you better believe when he was signed the Spurs and the media made a big deal about past finals performances.

  12. #137
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Additionally, Coach Pop sits on the left side of the aisle. The New Jersey Nets actually play in a borough of NYC called Brooklyn which is located in New York which is, you guessed it, traditionally a blue state! Furthermore both Patty Mills and Luka Samanic now reside in New York. Coincidence?
    Oh, great points! Curioser and curioser. And that’s without even taking Sean Marks into account, and that Pop was once recruited by the CIA. This calls for further investigation!

  13. #138
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    Give up a player? NO ONE WOULD SIGN HIM TO A MINIMUM NBA CONTRACT! You need to stop this fantasy that there was a trade to be had for him. Teams didn’t want him for as close to free as you can get in the NBA.
    Wow I see you cant read. never did I say a team was going to trade for him as what he currently was. I didnt even say that if he got good that he would get a second rd. I only said that a player could be traded if a team wanted him or someone else that did not get option picked up. 2nd rounders are not worth much. He has played well in the Gleague. He would be more of a position of need then other players. we also have several players that are not playing well also.

    People get down and give up on plays. He also had some really good plays. He has one of the better overall stats in the Gleague. some of this may have transferred some may not have,

    If I remember right you were one constantly pumping lonnie and you still talk about how bad DJ is. Most other people can see that DJ is better and has much more of a future. I think you might still be mad about this,

  14. #139
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    Oh, great points! Curioser and curioser. And that’s without even taking Sean Marks into account, and that Pop was once recruited by the CIA. This calls for further investigation!
    haha Sean Marks is a pretty good GM!! We need an infusion of up and coming front office talent. Maybe if Pop wasn’t the highest paid coach in the league these last few years we could have retained all the ppl he helped become so good.

  15. #140
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    Of course no team gave him a contract. They didn’t watch the painful mismanagement of his development. A team in desperate need of a 4 (KJ is not a 4) signs Bryn Forbes and a 5 th center. PATFO are clueless when it comes to roster construction.

  16. #141
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Wow I see you cant read. never did I say a team was going to trade for him as what he currently was. I didnt even say that if he got good that he would get a second rd. I only said that a player could be traded if a team wanted him or someone else that did not get option picked up. 2nd rounders are not worth much. He has played well in the Gleague. He would be more of a position of need then other players. we also have several players that are not playing well also.

    People get down and give up on plays. He also had some really good plays. He has one of the better overall stats in the Gleague. some of this may have transferred some may not have,

    If I remember right you were one constantly pumping lonnie and you still talk about how bad DJ is. Most other people can see that DJ is better and has much more of a future. I think you might still be mad about this,
    Lonnie had a higher ceiling, but will never reach it. I’m pretty sure he’s gone next summer.

    DJ isn’t bad, just inefficient. He doesn’t take or make enough 3s, and he doesn’t get to the line enough. He’s a good player, but will never be a great one, and is more suited to playing off the ball.

  17. #142
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    Lonnie had a higher ceiling, but will never reach it. I’m pretty sure he’s gone next summer.

    DJ isn’t bad, just inefficient. He doesn’t take or make enough 3s, and he doesn’t get to the line enough. He’s a good player, but will never be a great one, and is more suited to playing off the ball.
    Higher ceiling is an independent person. I dont know who you saying he has a higher ceiling than but I would say it is lower then DJ and Luka. Luka if he get the PT and developes has a pretty high ceiling. He also plays at one of the most important positions currently.

    DJ is not as unefficient as you think. He can improve in a few areas mainly getting fouls would be his biggest. he si getting better at his 3s. his attempts are increasing. He has some good games and some bad ones (for 3s). You also have to remember he is still a young player. (although getting towards the end of it) He is growing every year. Ja (a lot of others favorite on here) is not really any more efficient then DJ. he gets more FT but his 3 is not much better and this is his best year. It takes time for players to grow.

  18. #143
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Higher ceiling is an independent person. I dont know who you saying he has a higher ceiling than but I would say it is lower then DJ and Luka. Luka if he get the PT and developes has a pretty high ceiling. He also plays at one of the most important positions currently.

    DJ is not as unefficient as you think. He can improve in a few areas mainly getting fouls would be his biggest. he si getting better at his 3s. his attempts are increasing. He has some good games and some bad ones (for 3s). You also have to remember he is still a young player. (although getting towards the end of it) He is growing every year. Ja (a lot of others favorite on here) is not really any more efficient then DJ. he gets more FT but his 3 is not much better and this is his best year. It takes time for players to grow.
    Ceiling isn’t where you are. It’s the best possible outcome. Lonnie’s was off the charts, with a ready made 3 pointer, and oozing athleticism. Like I said, he didn’t come close to hitting it, maybe 25-30%. DJ is probably sitting on 95% of his ceiling. He’s finally learned basic pick and roll distribution, but has only average court vision, often missing open shooters around the arc on a team that desperately needs 3 pointers. He’ll also likely not improve his shooting from beyond the arc. He decent from the corners in a catch and shoot, less so from above the break, and abysmal off the bounce.
    Last edited by exstatic; 14 Hours Ago at 04:15 PM.

  19. #144
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Higher ceiling is an independent person. I dont know who you saying he has a higher ceiling than but I would say it is lower then DJ and Luka. Luka if he get the PT and developes has a pretty high ceiling. He also plays at one of the most important positions currently.

    DJ is not as unefficient as you think. He can improve in a few areas mainly getting fouls would be his biggest. he si getting better at his 3s. his attempts are increasing. He has some good games and some bad ones (for 3s). You also have to remember he is still a young player. (although getting towards the end of it) He is growing every year. Ja (a lot of others favorite on here) is not really any more efficient then DJ. he gets more FT but his 3 is not much better and this is his best year. It takes time for players to grow.
    It’s also not about what I think. DJs inefficiency is right there in black and white on the Advanced section of his bbref page. Things like eFG% or TS%. They don’t lie, and they’re not an opinion.

  20. #145
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    Ceiling isn’t where you are. It’s the best possible outcome. Lonnie’s was off the charts, with a ready made 3 pointer, and oozing athleticism. Like I said, he didn’t come close to hitting it, maybe 25-30%. DJ is probably sitting on 95% of his ceiling. He’s finally learned basic pick and roll distribution, but has only average court vision, often missing open shooters around the arc on a team that desperately needs 3 pointers. He’ll also likely not improve his shooting from beyond the arc. He decent from the corners in a catch and shoot, less so from above the break, and abysmal off the bounce.
    I know what ceiling is but it is also subjective. each person can have a different ceiling of someone. So you may think he had a super high ceiling but others dont. If I thought it was clearly off of current play then I would not have put Luka in there.

  21. #146
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    It’s also not about what I think. DJs inefficiency is right there in black and white on the Advanced section of his bbref page. Things like eFG% or TS%. They don’t lie, and they’re not an opinion.
    wow I can tell you dont know how to read. If you are comparing him to players at the same age and position he is not bad. If you compare him to vets then yes he is not good. thing is most of those vets were not where they are now when they had his experience.

  22. #147
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    wow I can tell you dont know how to read. If you are comparing him to players at the same age and position he is not bad. If you compare him to vets then yes he is not good. thing is most of those vets were not where they are now when they had his experience.
    TS% and eFG% don’t care how long you’ve been in the league. I also never brought up comparing him to veteran players in that post.

    For example, his numbers are lower than Vassells, and Devin hasn’t even played a full seasons worth of games.

    DJ TS% .494 eFG% .480

    DV TS%. .579 eFG% .565

  23. #148
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    TS% and eFG% don’t care how long you’ve been in the league. I also never brought up comparing him to veteran players in that post.

    For example, his numbers are lower than Vassells, and Devin hasn’t even played a full seasons worth of games.

    DJ TS% .494 eFG% .480

    DV TS%. .579 eFG% .565

    We should trade Murray and let Forbes be our primary focus since he is much more efficient than Murray.

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