NBA: If not for Tim Duncan, how long might the Laker scourge continued to virally infect?

[MultiTroll]

Or would Detroit simply have taken the trash out as they did in 2004?

Not sure any player or team could overcome the TV Networks / Stern / Evil as we saw happen in 2002. But Duncan restored dignity to the Championship in 2003.

The pandemic resurfaced in 2009-10 but was again put down.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bringing in Malone/Payton was a mistake, it ultimately shortened their dynasty. An overreaction to 2003 which was made possible by a very rare Horry miss on a shot he makes nine times out of ten, coupled with the fact they got off to a very slow start that season due to Shaq's foot injury and post-threepeat lethargy, which ultimately cost them homecourt advantage in the playoffs. They were an elite team though by the 03 playoffs and no doubt would have had a fourpeat if Horry's shot rattled in instead of out.

[LkrFan]

Pity post

[daslicer]

Bringing in Malone/Payton was a mistake, it ultimately shortened their dynasty. An overreaction to 2003 which was made possible by a very rare Horry miss on a shot he makes nine times out of ten, coupled with the fact they got off to a very slow start that season due to Shaq's foot injury and post-threepeat lethargy, which ultimately cost them homecourt advantage in the playoffs. They were an elite team though by the 03 playoffs and no doubt would have had a fourpeat if Horry's shot rattled in instead of out.

Them even being in that situation for the Horry 3 was fluky. The Spurs screwed around in that series. They had a 16 point lead in game 4 but that lead got erased due to the refs calling a lot of cheap calls in the Lakers favor. I still remember how atrocious game that was with Robinson fouling out and Duncan and Malik getting 5 fouls a piece along with Willis having 4 fouls. In 5 out of the 6 games in that series the Spurs had double digit leads. Lakers were clearly not the better team in that series or even close to being on the Spurs level. I know you will cling to the Horry shot but if they were really that good and the series was won off a Horry fluky miss then they shouldn't have gotten blown out at home by nearly 30 points in an elimination game.

Getting Malone and Payton was a desperate move that nearly paid off for the Lakers. They were way above the cap and they were able to get both of those clowns for discounts. Payton stupidly turned down 4 years 80 million from Miami just to play for the Lakers for peanuts. It was a low risk high reward type of move for the Lakers. Malone and Payton were huge for them and still had enough left in the tank to make a difference against the Spurs. Both were huge in containing Duncan and Parker which took a lot of pressure off of Shaq/Kobe and gave them more room to operate on offense and defense then they had in the '03 series. If the Lakers got regular guys for the MLE they would have gotten swept by the Spurs or lost in 5.

Lakers suffered bad luck with Malone's knees going out in the finals. Pistons probably still win that series but the Lakers could have had a fighting chance had Malone's knees not went out in that finals.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Them even being in that situation for the Horry 3 was fluky. The Spurs screwed around in that series. They had a 16 point lead in game 4 but that lead got erased due to the refs calling a lot of cheap calls in the Lakers favor. I still remember how atrocious game that was with Robinson fouling out and Duncan and Malik getting 5 fouls a piece along with Willis having 4 fouls. In 5 out of the 6 games in that series the Spurs had double digit leads. Lakers were clearly not the better team in that series or even close to being on the Spurs level. I know you will cling to the Horry shot but if they were really that good and the series was won off a Horry fluky miss then they shouldn't have gotten blown out at home by nearly 30 points in an elimination game.

Getting Malone and Payton was a desperate move that nearly paid off for the Lakers. They were way above the cap and they were able to get both of those clowns for discounts. Payton stupidly turned down 4 years 80 million from Miami just to play for the Lakers for peanuts. It was a low risk high reward type of move for the Lakers. Malone and Payton were huge for them and still had enough left in the tank to make a difference against the Spurs. Both were huge in containing Duncan and Parker which took a lot of pressure off of Shaq/Kobe and gave them more room to operate on offense and defense then they had in the '03 series. If the Lakers got regular guys for the MLE they would have gotten swept by the Spurs or lost in 5.

Lakers suffered bad luck with Malone's knees going out in the finals. Pistons probably still win that series but the Lakers could have had a fighting chance had Malone's knees not went out in that finals.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. It's actually in' funny that Payton ended up actually going to Miami anyway and winning a ring there.

[MultiTroll]

Pity post

Sad you have yet to experience a legit Lakers Championship.
Perhaps some day.

Them even being in that situation for the Horry 3 was fluky. The Spurs screwed around in that series. They had a 16 point lead in game 4 but that lead got erased due to the refs calling a lot of cheap calls in the Lakers favor. I still remember how atrocious game that was with Robinson fouling out and Duncan and Malik getting 5 fouls a piece along with Willis having 4 fouls. In 5 out of the 6 games in that series the Spurs had double digit leads. Lakers were clearly not the better team in that series or even close to being on the Spurs level. I know you will cling to the Horry shot but if they were really that good and the series was won off a Horry fluky miss then they shouldn't have gotten blown out at home by nearly 30 points in an elimination game.

[daslicer]

I agree wholeheartedly with this post. It's actually in' funny that Payton ended up actually going to Miami anyway and winning a ring there.

I remember hearing the rumors about Payton and Malone joining the Lakers before FA began. At the time I brushed them off thinking there is no way these guys are going to play for peanuts because back then the mentality from all players regardless of whether they were young or old was that you take the best deal possible and go for the maximum amount of money. I assumed Payton would sign with Miami for 4 years 80 million and Malone was going to sign with the Mavs since Cuban wanted to sign him to a 2 year 20 million dollar deal. When both of them rejected those deals I was shocked beyond belief and angry knowing there was a high chance the Spurs would not be able to get past the Lakers because of these two clowns.

What was funny was it was reported Riley actually tried to convince Payton not to sign with the Lakers and told him his offer still stands and that he will regret giving up all the money to play for the Lakers. To this day I still wonder how the Lakers convinced Payton to give up 80 mil to just play for 3-4 mil. Just insane when you think about it.

[MultiTroll]

To this day I still wonder how the Lakers convinced Payton to give up 80 mil to just play for 3-4 mil. Just insane when you think about it.

I've always believed compensation under the table wink nod happens constantly in pro sports.
Especially with a sleazeball org like Laker Entertainment.

Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol. Ya right.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I remember hearing the rumors about Payton and Malone joining the Lakers before FA began. At the time I brushed them off thinking there is no way these guys are going to play for peanuts because back then the mentality from all players regardless of whether they were young or old was that you take the best deal possible and go for the maximum amount of money. I assumed Payton would sign with Miami for 4 years 80 million and Malone was going to sign with the Mavs since Cuban wanted to sign him to a 2 year 20 million dollar deal. When both of them rejected those deals I was shocked beyond belief and angry knowing there was a high chance the Spurs would not be able to get past the Lakers because of these two clowns.

What was funny was it was reported Riley actually tried to convince Payton not to sign with the Lakers and told him his offer still stands and that he will regret giving up all the money to play for the Lakers. To this day I still wonder how the Lakers convinced Payton to give up 80 mil to just play for 3-4 mil. Just insane when you think about it.

The worst part about that offseason was Stephen Jackson in his prime to ATL and Speedy Claxton in his prime to GSW. Both bottom feeders at the time. Why didn't we use bird rights to bring them both back at market value?

[ambchang]

I remember hearing the rumors about Payton and Malone joining the Lakers before FA began. At the time I brushed them off thinking there is no way these guys are going to play for peanuts because back then the mentality from all players regardless of whether they were young or old was that you take the best deal possible and go for the maximum amount of money. I assumed Payton would sign with Miami for 4 years 80 million and Malone was going to sign with the Mavs since Cuban wanted to sign him to a 2 year 20 million dollar deal. When both of them rejected those deals I was shocked beyond belief and angry knowing there was a high chance the Spurs would not be able to get past the Lakers because of these two clowns.

What was funny was it was reported Riley actually tried to convince Payton not to sign with the Lakers and told him his offer still stands and that he will regret giving up all the money to play for the Lakers. To this day I still wonder how the Lakers convinced Payton to give up 80 mil to just play for 3-4 mil. Just insane when you think about it.

Because the Lakers somehoe convinced that Shaq and Kobe were both better than Duncan, who somehow, together, were only 3-2 vs. Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs.

The 04 Lakers were guaranteed a championship, four HoFers with two in their primes, and two a few years removed from it and still All-Star level? Who would've counted on Mr Bryant shooting themselves out of the le?

[daslicer]

Because the Lakers somehoe convinced that Shaq and Kobe were both better than Duncan, who somehow, together, were only 3-2 vs. Duncan and the Spurs in the playoffs.

The 04 Lakers were guaranteed a championship, four HoFers with two in their primes, and two a few years removed from it and still All-Star level? Who would've counted on Mr Bryant shooting themselves out of the le?

That still doesn't explain turning down 80 million dollars for 4 million dollars in which Payton did.

[daslicer]

The worst part about that offseason was Stephen Jackson in his prime to ATL and Speedy Claxton in his prime to GSW. Both bottom feeders at the time. Why didn't we use bird rights to bring them both back at market value?

Spurs had to save cap space to sign Manu for the summer of '04. Since Manu was a second round pick they weren't eligible for his Bird Rights which meant they had to make sure for the next offseason they would have cap spade to resign him.

In Stephen Jackson's case they offered him 3 years 9 million deal which he rejected at the time. It was a good offer back then considering no other team in the FA market wanted Stephen Jackson. He didn't get any offers that were greater than the Spurs deal but he was convinced he was worth more than that and signed with Atlanta for a 1 year 1 million. It ended up paying off for him in the summer of '04 since the Pacers offered him a big deal.

The Spurs could have kept Speedy and were prepared to offer him the same amount that the Warriors did but Popovich told him to sign with the Warriors. Pop did this because he told Speedy that he would never start on the Spurs but he has the opportunity to start with the Warriors and that he should take that opportunity.

I think if the Spurs kept Jax they probably go back to back in '04. They definitely beat the Lakers simply because Jax's nastiness would match both Payton and Malone plus he would have hit open 3's unlike Hedo. The downside of keeping Jax would have been I'm not sure if the Spurs win in '05 or in '07 with him since he's toxic waste. Jax would have created problems when it came to having to accept being below the big 3 in the totem pole.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Spurs had to save cap space to sign Manu for the summer of '04. Since Manu was a second round pick they weren't eligible for his Bird Rights which meant they had to make sure for the next offseason they would have cap spade to resign him.

In Stephen Jackson's case they offered him 3 years 9 million deal which he rejected at the time. It was a good offer back then considering no other team in the FA market wanted Stephen Jackson. He didn't get any offers that were greater than the Spurs deal but he was convinced he was worth more than that and signed with Atlanta for a 1 year 1 million. It ended up paying off for him in the summer of '04 since the Pacers offered him a big deal.

The Spurs could have kept Speedy and were prepared to offer him the same amount that the Warriors did but Popovich told him to sign with the Warriors. Pop did this because he told Speedy that he would never start on the Spurs but he has the opportunity to start with the Warriors and that he should take that opportunity.

I think if the Spurs kept Jax they probably go back to back in '04. They definitely beat the Lakers simply because Jax's nastiness would match both Payton and Malone plus he would have hit open 3's unlike Hedo. The downside of keeping Jax would have been I'm not sure if the Spurs win in '05 or in '07 with him since he's toxic waste. Jax would have created problems when it came to having to accept being below the big 3 in the totem pole.

Jack was good enough in his prime (Indianapolis) to make the Spurs more of a big 4 and maybe the big 3 era would never have really existed. Jack wasn't less consistent than, say, Parker in '03. Yes, we needed to re-sign Manu, and that's why we didn't go out and grab Jason Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal that offseason. But we had more than plenty of cap space to bring back Jackson and Claxton. 3 years/9 mil even in those days was a bit insulting, the Spurs should have offered him a 1 year prove-it deal worth a lot more than what Atlanta offered and then made a decision on him and Manu both in '04.

Claxton's career went south pretty quickly after signing with a bad GSW team. He wasn't even the starting PG there IIRC. He did carve out a bit of a career with the Pelicans and Chris Paul for a couple years, but he would have had a much longer and more memorable career as Parker's backup for 10+ years instead of the career he ended up with. When you go to a garbage team, that's what typically happens. Jacque Vaughn was a prototype replacement but he didn't come until '06-07. Beno Udrih was kind of a bust. We didn't even have a backup PG in 2004 really. Claxton might not have been "the starter" on the Spurs but he was certain to get a lot of minutes here, especially whenever Parker got in Popovich's doghouse which was quite often back then.

And who's to say Parker and Claxton couldn't co-exist on the court sometimes? Especially in smaller lineups. Back in those days Parker shot more threes... Parker was really more of a small SG than a PG anyway, if ya think about it real hard. Who's to say that wouldn't have worked out? It worked out with Iverson and Eric Snow (flashy score-first small 2 guard + defense first all around solid PG) in Philly, and they made it to the Finals in '01 with that configuration without even having Tim Duncan or much scoring outside of Iverson for that matter.

[lefty]

The 01 Sixers should have never made it to the Finals, Milwaukee was robbed

[Donald Sterling.]

Tim Duncan is a deeply closeted sexual.

[daslicer]

Jack was good enough in his prime (Indianapolis) to make the Spurs more of a big 4 and maybe the big 3 era would never have really existed. Jack wasn't less consistent than, say, Parker in '03. Yes, we needed to re-sign Manu, and that's why we didn't go out and grab Jason Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal that offseason. But we had more than plenty of cap space to bring back Jackson and Claxton. 3 years/9 mil even in those days was a bit insulting, the Spurs should have offered him a 1 year prove-it deal worth a lot more than what Atlanta offered and then made a decision on him and Manu both in '04.

Claxton's career went south pretty quickly after signing with a bad GSW team. He wasn't even the starting PG there IIRC. He did carve out a bit of a career with the Pelicans and Chris Paul for a couple years, but he would have had a much longer and more memorable career as Parker's backup for 10+ years instead of the career he ended up with. When you go to a garbage team, that's what typically happens. Jacque Vaughn was a prototype replacement but he didn't come until '06-07. Beno Udrih was kind of a bust. We didn't even have a backup PG in 2004 really. Claxton might not have been "the starter" on the Spurs but he was certain to get a lot of minutes here, especially whenever Parker got in Popovich's doghouse which was quite often back then.

And who's to say Parker and Claxton couldn't co-exist on the court sometimes? Especially in smaller lineups. Back in those days Parker shot more threes... Parker was really more of a small SG than a PG anyway, if ya think about it real hard. Who's to say that wouldn't have worked out? It worked out with Iverson and Eric Snow (flashy score-first small 2 guard + defense first all around solid PG) in Philly, and they made it to the Finals in '01 with that configuration without even having Tim Duncan or much scoring outside of Iverson for that matter.

I would have done the same thing the Spurs did when it came to that offer they made to Jax. Players always get paid based on their open market value. Jax had low value on the open market in '03. The fact that the Hawks were the only team to give him a deal which was just a 1 year 1 mil deal shows you how much low value he had on the open market. Sure he proved to be more valuable than what he was considered back in '03 but you can't knock the Spurs for what they did considering any team in the same position would have done the same.

Parker and Speedy could have played together in small spurts but definitely not in longer spurts together. Both would have been undersized playing together. Parker at best was just a decent defender and Speedy was also decent at best. It would be too much of a defensive liability to have both playing together for a long stretch. With that being said I would have loved to have kept Speedy. He would have been a great back up. I also think he might have made a difference in '06 against the Mavs when they went with Jason Terry and Devin Harris backcourt.

Saving cap space for Manu wasn't why the Spurs didn't get Jermaine O'neal, Jason Kidd. They wanted to get 1 of the 2 but struck out on both. Spurs didn't get Kidd simply because his ex wife didn't want to live in SA. Kidd is on record saying that his ex wife was the reason why he didn't sign with the Spurs. Jermaine also had great interest in signing with the Spurs and was on the verge of doing it. His reasoning for not signing with the Spurs was that he viewed Isiah Thomas as a father figure and didn't want to leave him. Larry Bird who was the GM of the pacers promised Jermaine that he wouldn't get rid of Isiah if he resigned with the Pacers. The funny thing is Bird fired Isiah immediately after Jermaine resigned with the Pacers. Jermaine is also on record saying If he could do it all over again he would have signed with the Spurs.

I didn't want Kidd but I wanted Jermaine badly. I thought pairing up Duncan with Jermaine would have done wonders for both of their careers. It would have been awesome to see Duncan play with another 20-10 guy like he did with Dave earlier in his career. Duncan's prime probably would have lasted longer if the Spurs had gotten Jermaine since he would have had less wear and tear on his body due to the help he would have gotten from Jeramine on both ends of the court. If the Spurs had gotten Jermaine I do believe it would have offset the Lakers move of getting Malone and Payton. They would have beaten the Lakers with Jermaine simply because they would have enough size to match up with both Shaq and Malone. I felt Duncan was winded having to play basically 1 on 2 against Malone/Shaq when he faced the Lakers in '04 since he didn't get any help from Horry and Rasho in that series.

Spurs ended up using all the money they would have used for either Jermaine or Kidd on signing Rasho and Horry. They also made a trade for Hedo. They still had some money left after that but wasn't going to waste on Jax because if they did it would have capped them out from being able to resign Manu the next summer since Jax wanted a multi-year deal.

[ambchang]

That still doesn't explain turning down 80 million dollars for 4 million dollars in which Payton did.

Next paragraph. Payton was clearly ring chasing at that point.

[daslicer]

Tim Duncan is a deeply closeted sexual.

If he was was I think he would have came out by now. It makes no sense hiding it in this current climate especially now with the acceptance of trans being pushed into the spotlight.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I would have done the same thing the Spurs did when it came to that offer they made to Jax. Players always get paid based on their open market value. Jax had low value on the open market in '03. The fact that the Hawks were the only team to give him a deal which was just a 1 year 1 mil deal shows you how much low value he had on the open market. Sure he proved to be more valuable than what he was considered back in '03 but you can't knock the Spurs for what they did considering any team in the same position would have done the same.

Parker and Speedy could have played together in small spurts but definitely not in longer spurts together. Both would have been undersized playing together. Parker at best was just a decent defender and Speedy was also decent at best. It would be too much of a defensive liability to have both playing together for a long stretch. With that being said I would have loved to have kept Speedy. He would have been a great back up. I also think he might have made a difference in '06 against the Mavs when they went with Jason Terry and Devin Harris backcourt.

Saving cap space for Manu wasn't why the Spurs didn't get Jermaine O'neal, Jason Kidd. They wanted to get 1 of the 2 but struck out on both. Spurs didn't get Kidd simply because his ex wife didn't want to live in SA. Kidd is on record saying that his ex wife was the reason why he didn't sign with the Spurs. Jermaine also had great interest in signing with the Spurs and was on the verge of doing it. His reasoning for not signing with the Spurs was that he viewed Isiah Thomas as a father figure and didn't want to leave him. Larry Bird who was the GM of the pacers promised Jermaine that he wouldn't get rid of Isiah if he resigned with the Pacers. The funny thing is Bird fired Isiah immediately after Jermaine resigned with the Pacers. Jermaine is also on record saying If he could do it all over again he would have signed with the Spurs.

I didn't want Kidd but I wanted Jermaine badly. I thought pairing up Duncan with Jermaine would have done wonders for both of their careers. It would have been awesome to see Duncan play with another 20-10 guy like he did with Dave earlier in his career. Duncan's prime probably would have lasted longer if the Spurs had gotten Jermaine since he would have had less wear and tear on his body due to the help he would have gotten from Jeramine on both ends of the court. If the Spurs had gotten Jermaine I do believe it would have offset the Lakers move of getting Malone and Payton. They would have beaten the Lakers with Jermaine simply because they would have enough size to match up with both Shaq and Malone. I felt Duncan was winded having to play basically 1 on 2 against Malone/Shaq when he faced the Lakers in '04 since he didn't get any help from Horry and Rasho in that series.

Spurs ended up using all the money they would have used for either Jermaine or Kidd on signing Rasho and Horry. They also made a trade for Hedo. They still had some money left after that but wasn't going to waste on Jax because if they did it would have capped them out from being able to resign Manu the next summer since Jax wanted a multi-year deal.

Rasho and Hedo were awful and keeping Jackson would have been far superior to having both of those two wastes of space. Nesterovic ended up not even playing hardly any in the Lakers series, and we could have had Horry for peanuts anyway since the Lakers were done with him after his historically bad 2003.

Also, Claxton was an excellent defender at the PG position. One of the better ones in the game actually and he showed it in the second half of the 2003 season after he came back from injury (remember, Anthony Goldwire was our backup PG in the first half of that year which was pretty rough for us but it helped TP grow up a bit with extended minutes) and in the playoffs he downright locked down Marbury, Nash and Kidd at times. He was the Spurs' key to beating Marbury as TP completely folded like a lawn chair every time he saw Marbury. Also Claxton went on to be a very good defender in his later years in New Orleans too. Defense was Claxton's best asset, as well as coming up with the timely clutch 15 foot jumper. (He didn't shoot threes; but neither did Vaughn or T.J. Ford or AJ for that matter.)

I was there in person at the very first home game played at the SBC Center in November '02 against Toronto, Spurs won but it was also the game Claxton went down with a pretty severe and gruesome leg injury. I was just 9 years old at the time. Everyone in the crowd was quiet and upset because we knew that Speedy was going to be a pretty important player for us that year.

[lefty]

I liked Jax
He made some big shots for us, he wasn’t afraid of the moment

[daslicer]

Rasho and Hedo were awful and keeping Jackson would have been far superior to having both of those two wastes of space. Nesterovic ended up not even playing hardly any in the Lakers series, and we could have had Horry for peanuts anyway since the Lakers were done with him after his historically bad 2003.

Also, Claxton was an excellent defender at the PG position. One of the better ones in the game actually and he showed it in the second half of the 2003 season after he came back from injury (remember, Anthony Goldwire was our backup PG in the first half of that year which was pretty rough for us but it helped TP grow up a bit with extended minutes) and in the playoffs he downright locked down Marbury, Nash and Kidd at times. He was the Spurs' key to beating Marbury as TP completely folded like a lawn chair every time he saw Marbury. Also Claxton went on to be a very good defender in his later years in New Orleans too. Defense was Claxton's best asset, as well as coming up with the timely clutch 15 foot jumper. (He didn't shoot threes; but neither did Vaughn or T.J. Ford or AJ for that matter.)

I was there in person at the very first home game played at the SBC Center in November '02 against Toronto, Spurs won but it was also the game Claxton went down with a pretty severe and gruesome leg injury. I was just 9 years old at the time. Everyone in the crowd was quiet and upset because we knew that Speedy was going to be a pretty important player for us that year.

I agree Rasho and Hedo were trash. Hedo was really disappointing since he had a stretch where he was playing great and the Spurs were rolling. He melted once the playoffs started. Rasho was just an average center who only played really well when Duncan was injured.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I agree Rasho and Hedo were trash. Hedo was really disappointing since he had a stretch where he was playing great and the Spurs were rolling. He melted once the playoffs started. Rasho was just an average center who only played really well when Duncan was injured.

I don't see what the Spurs ever saw in Rasho anyway. He was as soft as it gets in Minnesota, really a net negative center there. The Wolves were always more dangerous when they went smallball with Garnett at center or used a different center like Dean Garrett. Obviously Rasho wasn't going to be brought back after they gave all that money to Olowokandi (lol). Obviously the Spurs needed a starting center or at least a big man as David was retired but literally anyone who blocked shots and played defense would have been better than Rasho. Turkoglu was a bench player, sort of a Gary Neal in Sacramento for a good reason... he wasn't consistent enough or good enough on defense to deserve a starting job. Jackson and David brought swagger... Nesterovic and Turkoglu brought eurotrashic monotony to the Spurs. The compe ive spirit just wasn't there with those two like it was with say Jackson and Bruce Bowen and Manu and of course Timmy and even Speedy Claxton and old dog Kevin Willis... Those guys were just dogs that played to win the game every possession, every minute out there. 2005 is up there with my all time favorite Spurs teams, but 2003 will always be my favorite.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The only positive addition in 2004 was Horry, who was another one of those compe ive hard dogs. But he was had cheap. No reason we should have let Jackson go. And the Spurs had no backup PG in 2004 for when Parker struggled. Not only no Claxton but also no Steve Kerr. Nobody who could shoot. At least Brent Barry would play backup PG in 2005 and while a lousy defender he was certainly a of a shooter, you couldn't guard him like he's Speedy Claxton, just ask the Suns... lol..

[daslicer]

I don't see what the Spurs ever saw in Rasho anyway. He was as soft as it gets in Minnesota, really a net negative center there. The Wolves were always more dangerous when they went smallball with Garnett at center or used a different center like Dean Garrett. Obviously Rasho wasn't going to be brought back after they gave all that money to Olowokandi (lol). Obviously the Spurs needed a starting center or at least a big man as David was retired but literally anyone who blocked shots and played defense would have been better than Rasho. Turkoglu was a bench player, sort of a Gary Neal in Sacramento for a good reason... he wasn't consistent enough or good enough on defense to deserve a starting job. Jackson and David brought swagger... Nesterovic and Turkoglu brought eurotrashic monotony to the Spurs. The compe ive spirit just wasn't there with those two like it was with say Jackson and Bruce Bowen and Manu and of course Timmy and even Speedy Claxton and old dog Kevin Willis... Those guys were just dogs that played to win the game every possession, every minute out there. 2005 is up there with my all time favorite Spurs teams, but 2003 will always be my favorite.

You'll be surprised but the Wolves wanted Rasho back. They even offered more money than the Spurs. I believe the Spurs offered Rasho 6 years 42 mil and the wolves offered him 6 years 45 mil. Rasho left the wolves because he hated Garnett and didn't like dealing with his constant yelling and verbal abuse. He felt Tim Duncan would be easier to play with and that's why he signed with the Spurs. The Wolves then signed Olowokandi out of desperation to replace Rasho.

Spurs also got Rasho and Horry because Tim wanted both of them. Tim didn't want to play center full time and also wanted Horry. They were the back up plan after the Spurs failed to get Jermaine O'Neal.

[Millennial_Messiah]

You'll be surprised but the Wolves wanted Rasho back. They even offered more money than the Spurs. I believe the Spurs offered Rasho 6 years 42 mil and the wolves offered him 6 years 45 mil. Rasho left the wolves because he hated Garnett and didn't like dealing with his constant yelling and verbal abuse. He felt Tim Duncan would be easier to play with and that's why he signed with the Spurs. The Wolves then signed Olowokandi out of desperation to replace Rasho.

Spurs also got Rasho and Horry because Tim wanted both of them. Tim didn't want to play center full time and also wanted Horry. They were the back up plan after the Spurs failed to get Jermaine O'Neal.

Rasho was a worse defensive big man than Tiago Splitter and Rasho played in an era where less fouls at the rim were called. He probably deserved the yelling in the face from Garnett for giving up and-1's all the time instead of, you know, blocking the shot or making a play on the ball and getting the rebound.

Rasho was just soft. So soft that he was borderline unplayable in the 2004 Lakers series and Horry and Duncan each had to log big minutes and eventually their lack of depth compared to 2003 or 2005 just wore them down. Kevin Willis was too old by that point, Rasho was soft and useless and Malik Rose was too undersized to handle the Lakers bigs. You couldn't really go small with Duncan at center with both Shaq and Malone out there. Timmy would simply foul out.

I get that Rose was a fan favorite here for a long time, but the Rose for Mohammed 2005 trade won us that championship. We don't beat the Pistons or even Seattle that year with no true center and dawg down there in the paint to complement Duncan. Don't forget Seattle had our number that year big time because of their list of mean tough big guys (Jerome James/Danny Fortson/Reggie Evans) that kept giving Seattle second chance opportunities and they had a lethal offense led by prime Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis that year. Mohammed fixed that.