1. #27726
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    If it gives China pause on Taiwan and its 9 dash plans, it is worth every penny.
    We're giving Taiwan billions of dollars in aid too. It never ends.

  2. #27727
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    We're giving Taiwan billions of dollars in aid too. It never ends.
    We are also selling them billions of dollars of goods and depend on their computer chip manufacturing, so there is that.

  3. #27728
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    We are also selling them billions of dollars of goods and depend on their computer chip manufacturing, so there is that.
    We depend on China for a sh*t load too.

  4. #27729
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    We depend on China for a sh*t load too.
    Sure, stores like Dollar Store and Wal-Mart are full of their stuff. Rare earth minerals are main thing they hold over everyone.

  5. #27730
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Even if Ukraine's regular army had collapsed near the start of the war, there would most likely be a sort of insurrection type force making life for Russia in Ukraine. The U.S. defeated the Iraq's regular army pretty easily in 2003, and yet we were largely driven out after the fact by irregular forces armed with small arms and cheap to make IEDs.

  6. #27731
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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  7. #27732
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Most business owners understand that if you spend massively more than you earn that you will eventually become insolvent. Many people in government understand this too but sadly they're willing to simply pass the problem on to the next generation in order to get reelected.
    It's not a business.

    Russia's conventional forces didn't measure up to NATO before the war and they don't now. So spending even more is terrible value for money if the reason it's worth it is to "grind them into dust" at taxpayer expense. If Europe wants to fund it all, that's fine.
    No, it's a fantastic value.

  8. #27733
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    We're giving Taiwan billions of dollars in aid too. It never ends.

  9. #27734
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    You wanna make the US consumer suffer?
    Make sure EVERYTHING we use for material and everything we buy is made in the US.

    And good luck to the caffeine addicts.

  10. #27735
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    Ukraine will now push for F-16 fighter jets


    https://thehill.com/homenews/3830293...t-adviser-says

  11. #27736
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    It's not a business.
    Bad news. The same basic principals of finance still apply. You've just become conditioned to think that what happened to Greece can't happen here.

  12. #27737
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Even if Ukraine's regular army had collapsed near the start of the war, there would most likely be a sort of insurrection type force making life for Russia in Ukraine. The U.S. defeated the Iraq's regular army pretty easily in 2003, and yet we were largely driven out after the fact by irregular forces armed with small arms and cheap to make IEDs.
    Like there wasn't in Crimea? You underestimate Russia's ruthlessness once they occupy.

    Just the amount of money the US is making and will be making out selling energy to Europe more than covers what's being spent in the war.

  13. #27738
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Bad news. The same basic principals of finance still apply. You've just become conditioned to think that what happened to Greece can't happen here.
    In what sense? The US debt is not comparable to the Greek debt at all. That's not an opinion.

  14. #27739
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Businesses dont have their own currency nor do they sell Treasury Bonds. Business try to make a profit. Governments do not.
    Yes we should be concerned about debt. But lets be honest about it. Governments do not work like businesses. This war was not wanted by the US government or anyone else but Russian. But in the long run, Ukraine gaining its land back and attempting to get rid of corruption and act like a democracy is good for all of European democracies. Which is good for us. From a government AND business point of view.

  15. #27740
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
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    Businesses dont have their own currency nor do they sell Treasury Bonds. Business try to make a profit. Governments do not.
    Yes we should be concerned about debt. But lets be honest about it. Governments do not work like businesses. This war was not wanted by the US government or anyone else but Russian. But in the long run, Ukraine gaining its land back and attempting to get rid of corruption and act like a democracy is good for all of European democracies. Which is good for us. From a government AND business point of view.
    Something that is "good" is not by definition "worth" what is paid for it. This concept is much easier for people to understand with their personal finances than with their government's finances.

    At the end of the day finance for the government is pretty simple. If people believe the government is capable of handling the debt load then they will continue to loan more and more; BUT the moment they don't believe that then interest rates e, debt servicing es and the house of cards may crumble. If you simply print money to try and fix the debt issue then you inevitably create massive inflation as many government around the world already know.

    I'm not saying that we're going bankrupt tomorrow. I'm saying we're on a path to financial disaster eventually....

  16. #27741
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Something that is "good" is not by definition "worth" what is paid for it. This concept is much easier for people to understand with their personal finances than with their government's finances.

    At the end of the day finance for the government is pretty simple. If people believe the government is capable of handling the debt load then they will continue to loan more and more; BUT the moment they don't believe that then interest rates e, debt servicing es and the house of cards may crumble. If you simply print money to try and fix the debt issue then you inevitably create massive inflation as many government around the world already know.

    I'm not saying that we're going bankrupt tomorrow. I'm saying we're on a path to financial disaster eventually....
    We increase the supply of money. We have to. How much we increase the supply is the real issue. It’s a tough balancing act.
    The war is not costing us near as much as many other things such as climate change. The war could actually be a monetary plus for the US in the longer run. Opening up all the European markets that did not benefit from the fall of the Soviet Union could help out a whole lot of European countries that are much worse off than Greece for example.

    There is a big list of Soviet satellites states that suffered immensely. The breakup of Yugoslavia also made a number of European countries poor. Russia is the huge loser economically and politically. Some of this looks to be favorable for us, some not so much. Russia’s economy was the size of Spains before the war for perspective. But it’s military clout is much larger and this clearly has devastated an already poor Ukraine. We know countries can become viable economically again after large wars.

  17. #27742
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Something that is "good" is not by definition "worth" what is paid for it. This concept is much easier for people to understand with their personal finances than with their government's finances.

    At the end of the day finance for the government is pretty simple. If people believe the government is capable of handling the debt load then they will continue to loan more and more; BUT the moment they don't believe that then interest rates e, debt servicing es and the house of cards may crumble. If you simply print money to try and fix the debt issue then you inevitably create massive inflation as many government around the world already know.

    I'm not saying that we're going bankrupt tomorrow. I'm saying we're on a path to financial disaster eventually....
    The math isn't complicated, because should a NATO country get attacked, the US would need to get involved and possibly at much larger expense, and if you validate and give momentum to Russia, then that inevitably is going to happen, especially in countries like Latvia or Estonia.

    So if we're talking about expenses and what's "worth" it, having Ukraine fight this war is substantially cheaper, not only monetarily but also in US casualties, which is generally a better barometer of the US population stomach for war.

    In the meantime you try to isolate Russia and bleed it slowly, both in military and economic terms.

  18. #27743
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Bad news. The same basic principals of finance still apply.
    They do not.

    We're not Greece.

  19. #27744
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Even if Ukraine's regular army had collapsed near the start of the war, there would most likely be a sort of insurrection type force making life for Russia in Ukraine. The U.S. defeated the Iraq's regular army pretty easily in 2003, and yet we were largely driven out after the fact by irregular forces armed with small arms and cheap to make IEDs.
    We didn't ship Iraqis to North Dakota and settle Iraq with hundreds of thousands of our own citizens.

    You're really bad at comparisons tbh.

  20. #27745
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  21. #27746
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    Jaga Jaga


  22. #27747
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  23. #27748
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Anyone heard from Deadly Dynasty? Haven't seen him in awhile. Hope he is OK.

  24. #27749
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    The Abrams and Challengers are mostly symbolic but the Leopards should make a big difference. The training and supply and maintenance training to support 30 tanks is inefficient.

  25. #27750
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    Anyone heard from Deadly Dynasty? Haven't seen him in awhile. Hope he is OK.
    He posted yesterday so all seems good.

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