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  1. #27751
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    The Abrams and Challengers are mostly symbolic but the Leopards should make a big difference. The training and supply and maintenance training to support 30 tanks is inefficient.
    But they are all better than the current russian tanks (e.g., kill range, amour) and with Bradley, they should make a couple of great combined arms attack forces,

  2. #27752
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    Ukraineís Security Service uncovers suspected Russian spy in its ranks
    by The Kyiv Independent news deskJanuary 26, 2023 2:33 pm
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    Ukraineís Security Service (SBU) reported on Jan. 26 that they detained a lieutenant colonel in their ranks on su ion of high treason.

    The lieutenant colonel is accused of conducting intelligence operations and passing state secrets to Russian contacts. According to the SBU statement, he used his personal mobile phone to photograph do ents with layout schemes of military checkpoints in Zaporizhzhia Oblast and sent the information via an email account registered on a Russian domain to Russian contacts.

    Ukraineís Security Service also seized mobile phones, SIM cards issued by Russian mobile carriers, cash, and other evidence during the suspectís detention. Their investigation is ongoing.

    ...
    https://kyivindependent.com/news-fee...y-in-its-ranks

  3. #27753
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    They do not.

    We're not Greece.
    They do. You believe in the American Exceptionalism fantasy... We can do no wrong.

  4. #27754
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    We didn't ship Iraqis to North Dakota and settle Iraq with hundreds of thousands of our own citizens.

    You're really bad at comparisons tbh.
    Irrelevant.

  5. #27755
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    The math isn't complicated, because should a NATO country get attacked, the US would need to get involved and possibly at much larger expense, and if you validate and give momentum to Russia, then that inevitably is going to happen, especially in countries like Latvia or Estonia.
    No, it's not inevitable. It would be more likely but still highly unlikely. We live in a world where we have to manage risks and can't simply "buy out" all of them.

  6. #27756
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    The Abrams and Challengers are mostly symbolic but the Leopards should make a big difference. The training and supply and maintenance training to support 30 tanks is inefficient.
    Might be thought of as a long term commitment as Russia and Ukraine expect this war to take years (this may be posturing from both sides as both would like it to end with cir stances in their favor) We are a ways from either side ready to stop given the current positions.

  7. #27757
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    No, it's not inevitable. It would be more likely but still highly unlikely. We live in a world where we have to manage risks and can't simply "buy out" all of them.
    You think we are buying out a problem in Ukraine?
    I see it more of a long term political and economic investment now (given my feelings that it never should have happened in the first place)

  8. #27758
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    You think we are buying out a problem in Ukraine?
    I see it more of a long term political and economic investment now (given my feelings that it never should have happened in the first place)
    Even if you agree with that, who really benefits more? Europe or USA? So who should be carrying the lion's share of the burden?

  9. #27759
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    No.
    You believe in the American Exceptionalism fantasy... We can do no wrong.
    You're wrong there too.

    You're really bad at this.

  10. #27760
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Completely relevant. You're just upset you were completely ignorant about it.

  11. #27761
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    Might be thought of as a long term commitment as Russia and Ukraine expect this war to take years (this may be posturing from both sides as both would like it to end with cir stances in their favor) We are a ways from either side ready to stop given the current positions.
    Right now, we've articulated no clear plan and no end game other than to just keep feeding Ukraine with weapons and money. Western countries don't seem to be totally united on what Ukraine "winning" even means. The only shot at success I see is for a total political collapse in Russia AND a new government that is stable and conciliatory. That doesn't seem likely. In fact, I would guess that Putin would use nukes before surrendering if he stays in power.

  12. #27762
    The Money Team DMX7's Avatar
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    No. You're wrong there too.

    You're really bad at this.
    Of course you do. Don't be mad that I busted you.

  13. #27763
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    Ukraine!

  14. #27764
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Of course you do. Don't be mad that I busted you.
    Untrue. The US has done plenty wrong. Supporting Ukraine is absolutely the right thing to do.

  15. #27765
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Even if you agree with that, who really benefits more? Europe or USA? So who should be carrying the lion's share of the burden?
    Europe is taking on a much larger burden. The percentage we are spending next to many European countries is much less. Overall spending, we spend the most. Which way do you think is best to look at it? And also as % of GDP or % of military spending.

    Canada beats or ties us on both. We dont match most of the European countries % wise that are closer to the war and democratic. And then the numbers I have looked at do not count humanitarian aide, especially taking on people leaving Ukraine.

    What numbers are you looking at? Just total?

  16. #27766
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    And fk Russia.
    Lets be clear who you fk.

  17. #27767
    LMAO koriwhat's Avatar
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    And fk Russia.
    Lets be clear who you fk.
    Lets be clear that you'll never ever get me to stfu and you'll continue to cry about it endlessly like you already do. Boo inghoo PG!

  18. #27768
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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  19. #27769
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Right now, we've articulated no clear plan and no end game other than to just keep feeding Ukraine with weapons and money. Western countries don't seem to be totally united on what Ukraine "winning" even means. The only shot at success I see is for a total political collapse in Russia AND a new government that is stable and conciliatory. That doesn't seem likely. In fact, I would guess that Putin would use nukes before surrendering if he stays in power.
    We have no clear plan because the situation is fluid.
    Our clear plan right now is to have Russia out of all of Ukraine.
    To have Russian powers in charge who have committed crimes against civilians prosecuted.
    Make compensatory payments for civilian infrastructure the Russians have ruined.
    And to bring Russia back into the world economy once the above has been fulfilled.

    You want an Afghanistan here? We just do half assed things and give up when its clear Ukraine has a good chance at pushing Russia off most of their land?

  20. #27770
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    Lets be clear that you'll never ever get me to stfu and you'll continue to cry about it endlessly like you already do. Boo inghoo PG!
    So no fk Russia...
    Revealing you do care.
    And I dont want you to stfu? Where have I ever stated this.
    I like you posting because it gives me a foothold into how Trumpsters feel about this war.

    And yes I am just distraught over your posting and full of tears. If this makes you feel fulfilled go with this narrative please
    The more you post the more you reveal. Thats cool with me.

  21. #27771
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    How about that?


  22. #27772
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    How about that?

    Absolutely do not trust Erdogan.
    Turkey holds cards though.

    We should just sign a treaty with Finland and Sweden straight up and bypass NATO.

  23. #27773
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    No, it's not inevitable. It would be more likely but still highly unlikely. We live in a world where we have to manage risks and can't simply "buy out" all of them.
    Of course it's inevitable, based on Russia's own claims and the fact that you'll be validating their position that they can't be dissuaded because they're a nuclear power.

    And it's not a matter of "buying out". I don't think you understand what's at stake here, and your position would mean not learning the lessons we learned in WWII.

    For example, sitting out the war until Pearl Harbor when the Nazis had control of half of Europe, and Japan had the balls to attack. What did it cost to enter the war then, in both economic and death terms?

    There's a serious worldview shift at stake here, both in geopolitcal and economic terms. It affects from global trade to simple democracy.

    Russia is simply a target of opportunity now. They're trying to become a superpower again, but their economy is simply too small and too reliant on energy exports. This is why Ukraine and their food production is of strategic importance to them.

    Even if you agree with that, who really benefits more? Europe or USA? So who should be carrying the lion's share of the burden?
    Well, obviously the US. Not only we keep our standing as the de-factor geopolitical power, but a muted Russia has economic implications as well, including our economic compe ion with China.

  24. #27774
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Right now, we've articulated no clear plan and no end game other than to just keep feeding Ukraine with weapons and money. Western countries don't seem to be totally united on what Ukraine "winning" even means. The only shot at success I see is for a total political collapse in Russia AND a new government that is stable and conciliatory. That doesn't seem likely. In fact, I would guess that Putin would use nukes before surrendering if he stays in power.
    It's never been about Ukraine "winning", it's all about bleeding Russia. Winning means Russia suffering a similar collapse as they had in the 90's.

  25. #27775
    Against Home Schooling Ef-man's Avatar
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    Death on call.


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