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  1. #176
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    You do both, start renting capital now continue in the summer. Teams want to start clearing cap space now so they are in a better position July 1st when free agency starts as a fair amount of signings are announced within hours of the clock striking midnight. I’m not the only one advocating this, top NBA pundits are projecting a busy trade deadline for this reason. Also we have ~40mm in cap space and very few if any real free agent targets. We should be getting ahead of this or risk PATFO paying a guy like Joe Ingles 3yr/50mm as you know dumb contracts like McLovins are a major risk when we are sitting on a bag of cash in a free agent market.

    I like your scenario with Portland, and that is an ideal scenario so if any examples present themselves we should jump on that with Thad or Juancho’s contract. Portland probably only has two expiring contracts that make sense in Roco and Nurk (both ~12mm) however and those are attractive win now deadline pieces that will probably return assets, so they could likely shed salary AND net something in return.
    JHG + Eubanks for RoCo works in that scenario, and RoCo is and ending contract, so you can still leverage the space this summer. Two for one. Portland has FRPS, too. Only this years is spoken for. $14.5 mil on the balance sheet would be attractive to a small market team.

    If we could leverage this, it would also open a roster spot so that we could take back two contracts for Thad.

    I’ve looked through a lot of the contenders, and most of the either don’t have tradeable contracts, or they’re pick starved.

  2. #177
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    I don't know about trading Phoenix cap relief; it really depends what the FO thinks of dropping the bag on Ayton's doorstep at 12:01 at the start of Free Agency... Sarver is cheap, and if Phoenix matches, they are paying a LOT of lux tax in 2022 and 2023. Especially for a team that might not be a contender if CP3's play drops off... It's something I would be thinking hard about doing if I were them. He's young and good enough, and it has a chance of working...

  3. #178
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    I don't know about trading Phoenix cap relief; it really depends what the FO thinks of dropping the bag on Ayton's doorstep at 12:01 at the start of Free Agency... Sarver is cheap, and if Phoenix matches, they are paying a LOT of lux tax in 2022 and 2023. Especially for a team that might not be a contender if CP3's play drops off... It's something I would be thinking hard about doing if I were them. He's young and good enough, and it has a chance of working...
    The thing is, if you do that, and it doesn’t work, they’ll be pissed off and salary dump Saric, who will be healed and playable, to Orlando or the other team that has caproom. If you play it right, you can play both ends on this one:: save PHO cap room for a FRP, then spiff up Saric, and flip him again at next year’s deadline. Ayton isn’t going to put us over the top, but ac ulating enough picks eventually will. OKC has been pulling this for 3-4 years, renting capspace for picks, and then leveraging the player into more picks later. They just did it two years ago, and then last summer with Horford.

    We could probably even get away with signing Smith, and then trading for Saric, because the Smith thing was just stupid on their part. Signing an offer sheet on Ayton is pretty much a declaration of war, though.

  4. #179
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    I don't know about trading Phoenix cap relief; it really depends what the FO thinks of dropping the bag on Ayton's doorstep at 12:01 at the start of Free Agency... Sarver is cheap, and if Phoenix matches, they are paying a LOT of lux tax in 2022 and 2023. Especially for a team that might not be a contender if CP3's play drops off... It's something I would be thinking hard about doing if I were them. He's young and good enough, and it has a chance of working...
    Not even Sarver is stupid enough to not match a max offer sheet on Ayton. But he gets him cheaper by having him sign a 4-year RFA max with 5% raises than by signing a 5-year Bird max with 8% raises.

  5. #180
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    JHG + Eubanks for RoCo works in that scenario, and RoCo is and ending contract, so you can still leverage the space this summer. Two for one. Portland has FRPS, too. Only this years is spoken for. $14.5 mil on the balance sheet would be attractive to a small market team.

    If we could leverage this, it would also open a roster spot so that we could take back two contracts for Thad.

    I’ve looked through a lot of the contenders, and most of the either don’t have tradeable contracts, or they’re pick starved.
    Portland gave up 2FRPs to get RoCo, they aren’t giving another to trade him when he still has value. They should easily be able to trade RoCo and get an asset in return while still saving money but this is absolutely a strategy we should be open to.
    Last edited by KingKev; 01-23-2022 at 07:28 PM.

  6. #181
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    Not even Sarver is stupid enough to not match a max offer sheet on Ayton. But he gets him cheaper by having him sign a 4-year RFA max with 5% raises than by signing a 5-year Bird max with 8% raises.
    Agreed anyone who thinks Ayton isn’t getting the max this summer from PHX is lost.

  7. #182
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    The thing is, if you do that, and it doesn’t work, they’ll be pissed off and salary dump Saric, who will be healed and playable, to Orlando or the other team that has caproom. If you play it right, you can play both ends on this one:: save PHO cap room for a FRP, then spiff up Saric, and flip him again at next year’s deadline. Ayton isn’t going to put us over the top, but ac ulating enough picks eventually will. OKC has been pulling this for 3-4 years, renting capspace for picks, and then leveraging the player into more picks later. They just did it two years ago, and then last summer with Horford.

    We could probably even get away with signing Smith, and then trading for Saric, because the Smith thing was just stupid on their part. Signing an offer sheet on Ayton is pretty much a declaration of war, though.
    I like this..

  8. #183
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    Portland gave up 2FRPs to get RoCo, they aren’t giving another to trade him when he still has value. They should easily be able to trade RoCo and get an asset in return while still saving money but this is absolutely a strategy we should be open to.
    They’re in the tax, but not in the playoffs. They thought he’d make a difference, but he didn’t. The two FRPs were given up by Olshey, who has since been fired. They can LITERALLY turn their balance sheet around by $14.5M with one trade, but everyone can see they need the relief, and no one is doing it for free, or giving them an asset for a two month rental.

  9. #184
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    They’re in the tax, but not in the playoffs. They thought he’d make a difference, but he didn’t. The two FRPs were given up by Olshey, who has since been fired. They can LITERALLY turn their balance sheet around by $14.5M with one trade, but everyone can see they need the relief, and no one is doing it for free, or giving them an asset for a two month rental.
    There is absolutely going to be demand for RoCo and Nurk at the deadline if they offer them up. Contenders and playoff teams will be lining up for those expirings. The Blazers can absolutely move those players, save money and not have to pay a team for the relief, especially not a FRP. You are lost my friend.

  10. #185
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    Not a lot of playoff teams have cap room or have a bad player to trade to get one of those two?

  11. #186
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    At this point why would anyone trade for Thad? When was the last time he played?

  12. #187
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    At this point why would anyone trade for Thad? When was the last time he played?
    The Nets game a few days ago.

  13. #188
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    There is absolutely going to be demand for RoCo and Nurk at the deadline if they offer them up. Contenders and playoff teams will be lining up for those expirings. The Blazers can absolutely move those players, save money and not have to pay a team for the relief, especially not a FRP. You are lost my friend.
    They’re both rentals. I’ve looked through a lot of the salary structure of the contenders, looking for chances to move our guys, and most of them have a group of huge contracts, plus a gaggle of deals at $5M and below. They also, for the most part, lack picks. Phoenix is the one exception, and they non tendered a top 10 pick, and seem happy with Biyambo. Doubt they’ll be buyers.

    We’re positioned for the deal, anyway, and a FRP is NOT an overpay for that much of a financial windfall. Portland is also about out of SRPs. Like their next 5 are gone.

  14. #189
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    Not a lot of playoff teams have cap room or have a bad player to trade to get one of those two?
    You don’t need cap room to take on more cap in a trade, just can't be hard capped. Lakers, Jazz, Nets, Grizz, Warriors, Bucks, Hornets, Wolves, Nuggets, Celtics all could. Last 3 are unlikely to as they are right at the luxury tax.

  15. #190
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    They’re both rentals. I’ve looked through a lot of the salary structure of the contenders, looking for chances to move our guys, and most of them have a group of huge contracts, plus a gaggle of deals at $5M and below. They also, for the most part, lack picks. Phoenix is the one exception, and they non tendered a top 10 pick, and seem happy with Biyambo. Doubt they’ll be buyers.

    We’re positioned for the deal, anyway, and a FRP is NOT an overpay for that much of a financial windfall. Portland is also about out of SRPs. Like their next 5 are gone.
    This is a franchise that still wants to compete long term and has deep pockets in ownership. I just don’t see it.

  16. #191
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    At this point why would anyone trade for Thad? When was the last time he played?
    Once again, why the do people think front offices are only watching SportsCenter or something?

  17. #192
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    You don’t need cap room to take on more cap in a trade, just can't be hard capped. Lakers, Jazz, Nets, Grizz, Warriors, Bucks, Hornets, Wolves, Nuggets, Celtics all could. Last 3 are unlikely to as they are right at the luxury tax.
    Also, hard capped teams still under the luxury tax who may consider taking on RoCo/Nurk in a playoff push: Knicks, Bulls, Raps, Cavs and Mavs.

    Lots of candidates who could use their services and could potentially and work a trade to help reduce their tax bill.

    Very unlikely Portland will need to attach a first if they are looking to move RoCo/Nurk to save on their tax bill.

  18. #193
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    They’re both rentals. I’ve looked through a lot of the salary structure of the contenders, looking for chances to move our guys, and most of them have a group of huge contracts, plus a gaggle of deals at $5M and below. They also, for the most part, lack picks. Phoenix is the one exception, and they non tendered a top 10 pick, and seem happy with Biyambo. Doubt they’ll be buyers.

    We’re positioned for the deal, anyway, and a FRP is NOT an overpay for that much of a financial windfall. Portland is also about out of SRPs. Like their next 5 are gone.
    Portland aren't trading away a 1st for this, they'll find a deal to get them under the tax for much cheaper. Boston did a very similar trade with Juancho and only paid $2 mil in cash, no picks. They have another small move to make to get under the tax line and they'll easily find it. So will Portland.

  19. #194
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    Phoenix looks more comfortable playing with Magee and Biyombo than with Ayton and as someone else noticed if they're gonna match a max offer next summer they are gonna be big tax payers for some years... That said, obviously they are gonna receive a better package now than in the summer for a sign and trade (assuming they are going to find a deal with some other team that Ayton agrees to) ...Imho it all depends on their idea of Ayton as a necessary play off player plus their will to consider Ayton part of their future team at a max price... If they think Ayton risks to be, in the play offs, less useful compared to what the other two are showing then the time to sell him is at the deadline... Because you're gonna risk or choose to lose him for nothing next summer considering that the other two are not under contract for next season and are gonna be available at less than a quarter of the price that Ayton is gonna ask...
    I'm not saying the package we could offer is the best but only that, if we do like Ayton, we should explore the chance to trade for him now...nevsuse Phoenix already knows that someone (possibly or maybe probably us) will offer Ayton the max this summer and at that point their only alternative will be to lose him for nothing or being a big lux tax payer...

  20. #195
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    Phoenix looks more comfortable playing with Magee and Biyombo than with Ayton and as someone else noticed if they're gonna match a max offer next summer they are gonna be big tax payers for some years... That said, obviously they are gonna receive a better package now than in the summer for a sign and trade (assuming they are going to find a deal with some other team that Ayton agrees to) ...Imho it all depends on their idea of Ayton as a necessary play off player plus their will to consider Ayton part of their future team at a max price... If they think Ayton risks to be, in the play offs, less useful compared to what the other two are showing then the time to sell him is at the deadline... Because you're gonna risk or choose to lose him for nothing next summer considering that the other two are not under contract for next season and are gonna be available at less than a quarter of the price that Ayton is gonna ask...
    I'm not saying the package we could offer is the best but only that, if we do like Ayton, we should explore the chance to trade for him now...nevsuse Phoenix already knows that someone (possibly or maybe probably us) will offer Ayton the max this summer and at that point their only alternative will be to lose him for nothing or being a big lux tax payer...
    There's no team, ever, that'd trade their 3rd most important player in the middle of a le run because they may or may not be a tax payer in a year and a half.

    They'll max out Ayton, or come really close to it like Atlanta did with Collins. Then they'll have until next season's trade deadline to swing some deals and get out of the tax, or make it as little as possible. Sarver has paid the tax before and will pay it again for a le contender.

  21. #196
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    There's no team, ever, that'd trade their 3rd most important player in the middle of a le run because they may or may not be a tax payer in a year and a half.

    They'll max out Ayton, or come really close to it like Atlanta did with Collins. Then they'll have until next season's trade deadline to swing some deals and get out of the tax, or make it as little as possible. Sarver has paid the tax before and will pay it again for a le contender.
    Agreed. I guess it’s just wishful thinking/dreaming by Spurs fans that we can land Ayton but I can’t believe how many fans on this board think a team that close to winning it all this year would risk their chances to win a le(s) in the interest of perceived prudence.

  22. #197
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    Anything new on the Trad Young situation? He played the other day. If the Spurs cannot get a couple second rounders for this guy it’s a big fail for them.

  23. #198
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    Anything new on the Trad Young situation? He played the other day. If the Spurs cannot get a couple second rounders for this guy it’s a big fail for them.
    It depends what players teams are trying to send us. The pick(s) are only part of the equation. If teams are only offering one or two seconds, and expecting us to take on a multi year contract, accepting THAT would be a fail.

  24. #199
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    It depends what players teams are trying to send us. The pick(s) are only part of the equation. If teams are only offering one or two seconds, and expecting us to take on a multi year contract, accepting THAT would be a fail.
    This. His value to the Sours at this point is most likely facilitating a bigger trade and getting compensated for it. Otherwise there are like 5-10 expiring contracts not garnering much at the deadline. In part a product of the dichotomy between, call it 5 contenders and everyone else. Draft capital, cap space and the ability to make a real
    playoff run are all very polarized this year.

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