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Vassell's WAR is shockingly low in comparison to Keldon. Granted Keldon is one year ahead but even so.
Spurs players by Raptor ordinal value, 1 minute minimum played.
Then compared to NBA 2022 salaries at that ordinal.
Raptor rate values are by by average NBA player/minute.
WAR is base on a replacement players. In the past, that was defined as the 391st best player in the NBA. I'm not sure if that is now 451st best player due to 2-way players.
Langford and Richardson are based on entire season, not just as Spurs.
Dejounte Murray was tied with the 23rd WAR. Blake Griffin had the 23rd highest salary.
23 $32,405,817 Dejounte Murray / Blake Griffin
27 $31,579,390 Jakob Poeltl / Nikola Jokic
74 $17,142,857 Keldon Johnson / Spencer Dinwiddie
131 $9,937,150 Tre Jones / Kyle Anderson
172 $7,280,400 Devin Vassell / Scottie Barnes
222 $4,878,049 Josh Richardson / Torrie Craig
263 $3,749,400 Keita Bates-Diop / Chris Duarte
273 $3,300,000 Devantae Ca , Romeo Langford / Michael Carter-Williams
337 $2,245,400 Jock Landale / Monte Ellis
369 $1,977,011 Tyler Johnson, Jaylen Morris, Robert Woodard / Damian Jones (small sample size of 0.0 WAR)
473 $925,258 Zach Collins / Charles Bassey
501 $547,701 Joe Weiskamp / Haywood Highsmith
519 $462,629 Lonnie Walker IV / Chris Chiozza
570 $220,629 Joshua Primo / JaQuori McLaughlin
590 $159,527 Doug McDermott / Lindy Waters III
Vassell's WAR is shockingly low in comparison to Keldon. Granted Keldon is one year ahead but even so.
Spurs giving McDip $40mil
Yeah, trade Jak no problemo. Some rook will do it.
Bang for the buck = WAR/Salary value minus real salary
$22,829,390 Jakob Poeltl
$16,976,937 Dejounte Murray
$14,997,137 Keldon Johnson
$8,419,169 Tre Jones
$3,045,240 Devin Vassell
$2,573,872 Devontae Ca
$2,020,183 Keita Bates-Diop
$1,881,081 Jaylen Morris
$1,875,977 Robert Woodard
$1,848,302 Tyler Johnson
$1,320,142 Jock Landale
-$15,962 Joe Weiskamp
-$504,360 Romeo Langford
-$3,726,121 Joshua Primo
-$3,985,267 Lonnie Walker IV
-$6,074,742 Zach Collins
-$6,737,279 Josh Richardson
-$13,590,473 Doug McDermott
People here hoping he’s traded for a first because he can help some playoff team….
What’s admirable from the list is that DJ and Jak are in their a second contracts. Keldon is due for a raise and he should get it. Tre Jones is in incredible deal.
Lonnie is not getting a big contract offer from the Spurs prompting him to look elsewhere…
Thanks for sharing this. It’s very interesting
Combining other threads.
I wouldn't give Walker a Qualifying Offer.
The one player that I'd want on the Spurs would be a trade for Giannis Antetokounmpo straight up for Doug McDermott.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...layer-ratings/
It's a great site because there are 10 different categories, and it helps to look at all of them. Check out Derrick White's numbers.
That would be the reason we got the FRP and pick swap for him.
Mcdermoot and jrich bringing up the rear
Yep, exactly. But I have to admire Brad Stevens' thinking-- he had arguably the best defense in the NBA, and 5 starters who were all quality defenders, and then he went out at the trade deadline and got another one. That's not how teams like Utah, Portland, Sacramento, etc go about things.
Lonnie man…
Could you do a dumbed down working example of one or two of these?
Do you think he’d actually sign it? They can always rescind if there’s a bette use of cap space.
The only benefit to giving him QO is (1) matching rights, (2) chilling interest in him so you hopefully sign him at lower price and (3) a wink-wink if you’re signing him for more than the QO but need to maximize cap space otherwise.
I think he would unless the Spurs were planning on signing him for more. I dont see another team offering him that much.
2. I dissagree with as I dont think he will get big offers. 3 is not true as his cap hold is his cap hold if we have the QU for him or not. Once we either sign him or renounce him then his cap hold would change.
I suspect the numbers for Josh Richardson would change (for the better) if his performance for the Spurs alone (and not the Celtics) are considered.
Seems stupid until you take into account your rebuild timeframe. If you don't plan on being a serious compe or for a few more years (and who thinks we are?), you could trade Jak for a FRP and maybe a second. This team is not likely to be in contention with its current roster, including Jak anytime soon, and free agency is historically not where a team like the Spurs are going to turn the corner. So that leaves the draft. And getting what you can in trade assets for him.
I think Zollins numbers are also skewed by his short season. His WS/48 were good at .118 and his overall Rtg was +3, ORtg 112 and DRtg 109.
My working example is pretty simple.
By Raptor WAR, Murray was the 23rd best player in the NBA. Blake Griffin had the 23rd highest salary. So with the NBA salary structure, Murray gave about $32M in value.
McDermott was the 590th best player in the NBA. Lindy Waters III had the 590th highest salary. So with the NBA salary structure, McDermott gave about $159K in value.
I wouldn't give Walker a Qualifying Offer, because I don't believe Walker is anywhere near a $6M player. If offered, Lonnie might take it. And while a QO gives the Spurs the right to match, they shouldn't be matching anything in that neighborhood. If no other team wants Walker, then offer Walker considerably less than $6M, if there is room after the draft and other deals.
The larger the sample size, the better. I would not throw out Richardson's Celtics time. And if talking about next year's contract, Richardson is on the down slope of his career.
While Collins didn't play earlier in the season, not playing, and injuries, are stats to consider. Foot injuries are some of the worst. This version of mine is very simplistic, but real statheads tend to look at three year trends. And by three year trends, Collins, Kawhi, and others don't look so good. Note that in the time Collins did play, Collins was a below replacement level NBA player. If Collins played more at the same rate, Collins value would decrease, because theoretically, the Spurs could have replaced Collins with a G-Leaguer and gotten slightly better results. Yes, factor in rehab, character, fit, und so weiter, for next year's value, but Collins was worth Charles Bassey's paycheck this year. Here's hoping for a better 2022-23.
Edit: I meant to assert that I am NOT a real stathead. Just using what I consider the best of the freely available rankings. I started this over a decade ago with Basketball-Reference WS, switched to ESPN, now FiveThirtyEight. This is very simplistic.
Last edited by Drom John; 04-27-2022 at 11:57 AM.
Yep, LEBRON...the other advanced stat rated him an average rotation player who had his best numbers in limited min in his NbA career.
I like the analysis, but it's also one of those things that has to be digested in conjunction with other variables. I do think it lends itself to the argument, though, that a guy like Lonnie may not be worth investing a ton of cash into on a long-term deal.
Jakob is one of those dirty work players that doesn't get enough credit for what he brings to the team, overall. He gets lit up by a couple of folks and suddenly he's easily replaceable by a lot of the armchair GMs in here.
I think if you'd sidelined Jakob all the past season that the Spurs would have been lucky to hit 20 wins. I think he adds that much. Maybe not $30MM in salary much...but he's certainly a valuable piece to the Spurs, and I think that often gets overlooked.
Last edited by Ed Helicopter Jones; 04-27-2022 at 05:43 PM.
Value UFA Raptor#
$32,431,333 Jalen Brunson 22
$24,000,000 Gary Payton II 46
$21,306,816 Mitc Robinson 51
$18,000,000 Jusuf Nurkic 67
$17,905,263 Robert Covington 69
$16,409,091 Montrezl Harrell 78
$15,627,907 Delon Wright 85
$15,428,880 Hassan Whiteside 88
$15,428,880 Otto Porter Jr 88
$13,000,000 Zach Lavine 101
$13,000,000 Andre Drummond 101
$13,000,000 Malik Monk 101
$12,000,000 Ricky Rubio 111
$12,000,000 Tyus Jones 111
$12,000,000 Isaiah Hartenstein 111
$11,312,114 Chris Boucher 115
$11,312,114 Bruce Brown Jr 115
$10,000,000 Blake Griffin 129
$9,720,900 JaVale McGee 135
$9,720,900 Welsey Matthews 135
$8,750,000 LaMarcus Aldridge 149
$8,376,286 Andre Igoudala 156
$8,376,286 DeMarcus Cousins 156
$6,907,815 Kyle Anderson 178
$6,907,815 Nemanja Bjelica 178
$6,350,000 Frank Ntilikina 184
$5,845,978 Thaddeus Young 192
$5,348,280 Jeremy Lamb 200
$5,214,583 Derrick Jones Jr. 206
$5,000,000 Gary Harris 217
$5,000,000 Taurean Prince 217
$5,000,000 Paul Neto 217
$4,675,830 Carmelo Anthony 225
$4,235,160 Danuel House 240
$4,023,600 Joe Ingles 249
$4,023,600 Kent Bazemore 249
$4,023,600 Victor Oladipo 249
$3,940,184 Dewayne Dedmon 256
$3,940,184 Rodney McGruder 256
$3,940,184 Goran Dragic 256
$3,631,200 Dwight Howard 266
$3,261,480 Tristan Thompson 277
$3,261,480 Luke Kornet 277
$2,641,691 Gorgui Dieng 297
$2,641,691 Paul Millsap 297
$2,641,691 Gary Clark 297
$2,641,691 Damion Lee 306
$2,641,691 Greg Monroe 306
$2,498,760 Ryan Arcidiacano 316
$2,498,760 Wayne Ellington 316
$2,498,760 Rajon Rondo 316
$2,498,760 Bismack Biyombo 316
$2,245,400 Jarrett Culver 337
$2,245,400 Louis Williams 337
$2,245,400 Damian Jones 337
$2,245,400 Wenyen Gabriel 337
$2,245,400 Isaiah Thomas 337
$1,958,495 Ed Davis 370
$1,958,495 Markieff Morris 370
$1,958,495 Isaac Bonga 370
$1,958,495 Jevon Carter 370
$1,517,981 Dennis Schröder 434
$1,517,981 Josh Jackson 434
$1,517,981 Jake Layman 434
$1,517,981 Austin Rivers 434
$547,701 Tony Snell 501
$547,701 Rodney Hood 501
$308,493 Robin Lopez 547
$308,493 Bryn Forbes 547
$308,493 Udonis Haslem 547
$308,493 Chris Chiozza 547
$265,878 Serge Ibaka 558
$265,878 Avery Bradley 558
$265,878 Elfrid Payton 558
$221,156 DeAndre Jordan 569
$221,156 Tomas Satoransky 569
$218,021 Thomas Bryant 573
$159,527 Lance Stephenson 590
$151,821 Ben McLemore 593
$111,670 D.J. Augustin 603
T.J. Warren DNP
Brandon Godwin DNP
$111,670 D.J. Augustin 603
WTF? 30 teams, 15 man rosters = 450 players. Even if you add the 2ways, that's another 60 players, bringing the total to 510. Is DJ worse than 89 gleague 10 day contract players?
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