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  1. #251
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677300[/URL]]Markieff Morris averages 7.7 PPG. I assume you mean Marcus, who's over 30 and we had that story before.
    Tobias Harris is on the worst contract in the NBA besides Westbrook and worse defensively
    Gallinari is old as dirt
    Siakam shoots 7% worse from 3 and earns 10 million more per year than Collins
    Wood I agree with. Grant is another one I'd like. Probably even a better fit skill wise than Collins. That's about it

    it's also not about guys getting 16/7. It's about them being able to somewhat protect the rim and 3-point shooting. Besides that Collins with a lilttle bit more usage is a 20/10, not a 16/7 guy.
    Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.

  2. #252
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Off top my head bigs that shoot threes who can score 16 points and get 7-8 boards. Is he a good defender? I’ve only seen him a handful of times, and wasn’t that impressed. He’s already on a big contract.
    Pascal Siakim
    Danilo Gallinari
    Christian Wood
    Markieff Morris
    Tobias Harris
    Galinari isn’t the rebounder or defender that Collins is, and he’s 33
    Wood is a center. He meets the other requirements, but isn’t a PF. We’ve got too many Cs on the roster already.
    I will save you the embarrassment of commenting on Markief. Not even close, and 32
    Tobias Harris checks a lot of the boxes, but isn’t the rebounder or shotblocker that Collins is. He’s 29.

  3. #253
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.
    he obviously won't transform a franchise, but who exactly is your target out there to do that? I don't see anybody. It's about improving the team and adding neccessary pieces while making sure they fit the timeline.

  4. #254
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I think it's a mistake to think of Collins as a legit 20/10 guy. He did it once and the Hawks were 20-47 that year. In the last two seasons, he has been a 17/7+ guy, and last year in the playoffs he was more like 14/8+. Historically when the Hawks are more Collins-centric, they get worse, not better.

  5. #255
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.
    He was restricted last summer.

    Christian Wood is a center, strictly. They don’t play him with Sengun, and that would be a good combo if they could.

  6. #256
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677329[/URL]]he obviously won't transform a franchise, but who exactly is your target out there to do that? I don't see anybody. It's about improving the team and adding neccessary pieces while making sure they fit the timeline.
    You’re right as in there is nobody except maybe a rehabilitated Ben Simmons is out there to really change the course. We gotta build through the draft like Cleveland and others have done. John Collins seems to be the new Otto Porter Jr on Spurstalk with people giving metics on how great he is. He gets us a little better, but we are still a first round playoff team with him.

  7. #257
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Wood is a head case. Collins does have some red flags (more his father getting into the beef with Young than the two of them just not getting along), but I don't think he's any less of a Spur than Aldridge was in terms of temperament. Gallo has always been an injury risk. He was a good player and is still decent when healthy, but he's not in Collins' league given his realities. Harris is a guy in a vacuum I'd be fine taking on the Spurs, but his contract requires the Spurs send out at least White, McD and Young to make salary match. He's a good player who makes so much money that the Spurs shouldn't "prefer him" to Collins. Last summer when the team had Aminu and Hutch to throw into a deal? Maybe. Now he's too expensive.

  8. #258
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677352[/URL]]He was restricted last summer.

    Christian Wood is a center, strictly. They don’t play him with Sengun, and that would be a good combo if they could.
    Asshat he was restricted which means he could have signed with us and the Hawks could have matched it, but he didn’t and quickly signed with ATL, so your point is dumb, so dumb like your post about Spurs being smarter on Covid.

  9. #259
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677359[/URL]]Wood is a head case. Collins does have some red flags (more his father getting into the beef with Young than the two of them just not getting along), but I don't think he's any less of a Spur than Aldridge was in terms of temperament. Gallo has always been an injury risk. He was a good player and is still decent when healthy, but he's not in Collins' league given his realities. Harris is a guy in a vacuum I'd be fine taking on the Spurs, but his contract requires the Spurs send out at least White, McD and Young to make salary match. He's a good player who makes so much money that the Spurs shouldn't "prefer him" to Collins. Last summer when the team had Aminu and Hutch to throw into a deal? Maybe. Now he's too expensive.
    I get that Collins may some better stats and more upside most those I mentioned. I more was throwing up a group of similar players who can do generally the same thing. Julius Randle is another one…he shot 41% from three last year, he’s terrible this year. I just don’t see Collins as a “max salary” player that greatly changed our trajectory.

  10. #260
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You’re right as in there is nobody except maybe a rehabilitated Ben Simmons is out there to really change the course. We gotta build through the draft like Cleveland and others have done. John Collins seems to be the new Otto Porter Jr on Spurstalk with people giving metics on how great he is. He gets us a little better, but we are still a first round playoff team with him.
    We don't know what Cleveland is at this point, whether they are a first-round team or not. Collins makes so little money that he doesn't HAVE to be the guy. There's a legit path for Murray to get renegotiated to make more than Collins will. That he's locked into a non-star rate for four years after this one is a crazy-good deal.

    I see acquiring him more as the Spurs getting a second "good" player. Right now, I only have Murray as someone who's secure in his spot on a winning team. I think Vassell can be such a guy, and I have hope for Primo. Right now, besides Murray, the team has the aforementioned prospects and guys who go between JAG and replaceable. Getting Collins for White and a protected first doesn't prevent the Spurs from drafting players, and it may not lock them out of hitting up free agency or the trade market for someone who can supercharge the rest of the roster and make guys like Vassell and Poeltl go from undecided/replaceable to valuable starters on a dark-horse contender. It's possible but unlikely that the team will draft superstars, especially close together where they can develop into contenders before they break up. Cleveland doesn't look like it's there, and we don't know how much they'll develop and if they can do before Garland or Allen get to the end of their contracts.

    I'm not opposed to the team trying to strike while they have Murray, especially if they keep most of their natural picks. They aren't likely going to set themselves back by losing a protected 2023 pick. If they have to play for guys drafted in a few years, it'll likely be after the Murray era is over. I'd rather see them make a couple of conservative trades like Phoenix did rather than try to repeat what the Cavs are doing.

  11. #261
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Asshat he was restricted which means he could have signed with us and the Hawks could have matched it, but he didn’t and quickly signed with ATL, so your point is dumb, so dumb like your post about Spurs being smarter on Covid.
    I’ll take you lack of discussion on people crushing your Collins comps and ad hominem attack as concession that you have no point to make.

    Spurs normally don’t chase restricted FAs. In addition, ATL can start him at a higher salary, and can given him bigger raises. They didn’t want to lose him for nothing, and he probably wanted those Bird FA signing perks. That didn’t end the other underlying issues, so even if there was no explicit agreement on trading him, there was probably an underlying assumption that it probably would happen at some point.

  12. #262
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677367[/URL]]We don't know what Cleveland is at this point, whether they are a first-round team or not. Collins makes so little money that he doesn't HAVE to be the guy. There's a legit path for Murray to get renegotiated to make more than Collins will. That he's locked into a non-star rate for four years after this one is a crazy-good deal.

    I see acquiring him more as the Spurs getting a second "good" player. Right now, I only have Murray as someone who's secure in his spot on a winning team. I think Vassell can be such a guy, and I have hope for Primo. Right now, besides Murray, the team has the aforementioned prospects and guys who go between JAG and replaceable. Getting Collins for White and a protected first doesn't prevent the Spurs from drafting players, and it may not lock them out of hitting up free agency or the trade market for someone who can supercharge the rest of the roster and make guys like Vassell and Poeltl go from undecided/replaceable to valuable starters on a dark-horse contender. It's possible but unlikely that the team will draft superstars, especially close together where they can develop into contenders before they break up. Cleveland doesn't look like it's there, and we don't know how much they'll develop and if they can do before Garland or Allen get to the end of their contracts.

    I'm not opposed to the team trying to strike while they have Murray, especially if they keep most of their natural picks. They aren't likely going to set themselves back by losing a protected 2023 pick. If they have to play for guys drafted in a few years, it'll likely be after the Murray era is over. I'd rather see them make a couple of conservative trades like Phoenix did rather than try to repeat what the Cavs are doing.
    I agree with almost all that. More saying Spurs need to hit on a top 5 draft pick to properly rebuild. Sorry, I saw some DJ for Collins talk and got triggered. You only deal for Collins if Dejounte in running with him.

  13. #263
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I agree with almost all that. More saying Spurs need to hit on a top 5 draft pick to properly rebuild. Sorry, I saw some DJ for Collins talk and got triggered. You only deal for Collins if Dejounte in running with him.
    Yes. I wouldn't have said that this past summer, but White hasn't shown the growth/stability I had hoped. I haven't completely changed my stance on moving Murray, but I don't think they should even think about it until the draft when they know what they're getting. If they move him, it's to completely rebuild, not to tech around White.

    My hope is for the Collins issue to stay unresolved this season while the Spurs continue to lose their way to a top pick. Then they can draft whichever player with that pick and then trade White/McD and some future draft capital for Collins before going into free agency with a max slot to put around those guys. It's mathematically possible, but it would require a lot of finesse and likely extra draft compensation compared to trading for him this year or using actual cap space next summer.

    Just to be clear, I also like a number of the PFs in the draft, from the little I've seen of them. The Spurs certainly can rebuild through the draft and then consider trading Murray in the summer of 2023 if it's looking like he'd want to move on. I think I said in a post yesterday that there are moves I'd like them to make in whichever path they take. Me advocating a move in a win-now path doesn't mean I don't have an interest in the draft path.

  14. #264
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    10677375[/URL]]Yes. I wouldn't have said that this past summer, but White hasn't shown the growth/stability I had hoped. I haven't completely changed my stance on moving Murray, but I don't think they should even think about it until the draft when they know what they're getting. If they move him, it's to completely rebuild, not to tech around White.

    My hope is for the Collins issue to stay unresolved this season while the Spurs continue to lose their way to a top pick. Then they can draft whichever player with that pick and then trade White/McD and some future draft capital for Collins before going into free agency with a max slot to put around those guys. It's mathematically possible, but it would require a lot of finesse and likely extra draft compensation compared to trading for him this year or using actual cap space next summer.

    Just to be clear, I also like a number of the PFs in the draft, from the little I've seen of them. The Spurs certainly can rebuild through the draft and then consider trading Murray in the summer of 2023 if it's looking like he'd want to move on. I think I said in a post yesterday that there are moves I'd like them to make in whichever path they take. Me advocating a move in a win-now path doesn't mean I don't have an interest in the draft path.
    Great analysis. Thank you! Exstatic is still an asshat.

  15. #265
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    The Spurs problem is they don't have a consistent 20pt scorer that can create for himself when the offense gets bogged down. I was hoping White or even Walker would be that guy but both have disappointed. I'm not crazy about the Collins trade and don't see him as moving us any step closer to making this a playoff team. I think we should hold on to our assets and use White as trade bait to move up in the draft, like they did with George Hill to get Leonard. We still need a dynamic big wing to round out this roster. No way I make any Murray trade given that he hasn't reached his ceiling and we would probably only get draft assets and flawed players in return.

  16. #266
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    This year is a red shirt year; next year we will compete for real.

  17. #267
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    As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.

  18. #268
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Interesting that the 3 main guys with the most trade value on this team were all benched tonight. First time anyone's really been benched for "rest" this season and it comes now as trade talks are high.

  19. #269
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    If the Spurs moved this year’s pick for overrated John Collins, I’d be pretty damn pissed tbh. Have to think PATFO are smarter than that though. I hope.

    And needless to say, moving Murray for Collins and his ty at ude would be incredibly ing stupid and a disaster unless Murray makes it abundantly clear he won’t be re-signing here in 2 years.
    Yes. But it'll cost more.

  20. #270
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Interesting that the 3 main guys with the most trade value on this team were all benched tonight. First time anyone's really been benched for "rest" this season and it comes now as trade talks are high.
    They should’ve rested Thad too. But seriously, it’s interesting. I don’t see Murray ever getting moved, and maybe not Poeltl. But I have a feeling White would be for the right piece, maybe Collins. I think it’s time to play Primo alongside Murray at 2 and build that chemistry together. Tre has shown he can be a reliable backup at PG. I like White, but Collins >>> White, period. The pnr could suffer without White, that’s why they have to start Primo to help facilitate instead of Vassell, just imo.

  21. #271
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I wonder if Utah would be interested in McD. Ingles appears to have suffered a serious knee injury.

  22. #272
    I needs six for my fix. UnWantedTheory's Avatar
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    As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.
    I noticed the same. The dude takes what he says out context more often than not. It's like he either doesn't understand or he intentionally twists what he says just to argue. I may not always agree with Chinook but he almost always comes across as reasonable. The other dude, though otherwise a solid contributor, seems like a 20's something who misses his meds from time to time.

  23. #273
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I wonder if Utah would be interested in McD. Ingles appears to have suffered a serious knee injury.
    Bad timing for him entering free agency at 34. Jazz already rumoured not to be bringing him back. Jazz are
    over the cap and slumping so not sure they’d want to take
    on long term money but if we could turn McD into an FRP i’d do it. Ingles’ expiring and a future first for McD

  24. #274
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    They should’ve rested Thad too. But seriously, it’s interesting. I don’t see Murray ever getting moved, and maybe not Poeltl. But I have a feeling White would be for the right piece, maybe Collins. I think it’s time to play Primo alongside Murray at 2 and build that chemistry together. Tre has shown he can be a reliable backup at PG. I like White, but Collins >>> White, period. The pnr could suffer without White, that’s why they have to start Primo to help facilitate instead of Vassell, just imo.
    Thad has been resting all season and didn’t play at all. Highly doubt DJ/Murray/Jak out was due to a trade brewing.

  25. #275
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.
    I noticed the same. The dude takes what he says out context more often than not. It's like he either doesn't understand or he intentionally twists what he says just to argue. I may not always agree with Chinook but he almost always comes across as reasonable. The other dude, though otherwise a solid contributor, seems like a 20's something who misses his meds from time to time.
    Thanks for chiming in. I really wanted to know your thoughts. This isn’t a popularity contest for me. Chinook knows my stance by now (despite his dismissive facade), and while his last post is utterly nonsense, I won’t reply “just to argue”.

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