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  1. #26
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    He couldn’t guard a mannakin at this point. Think 6’10” Forbes.
    He never could.

  2. #27
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    His numbers across the board are dropping for the second year in a row.
    I don't see this as a red flag. On a per 100 possessions basis, he is shooting 2.4 fewer shots than last year and his turnovers have dropped, so his USG% is a good bit lower which hurts counting stats. His WS/48 is 0.165 compared to 0.174 each of the last two seasons, those are very solid numbers. His drop in TRB% is definitely bad, though, and his TS% has gone from around 0.65 to 0.63.

    I wouldn't give up the house for him, and he might be somewhat overpaid given his production, but I'd still take him for the right price. It's better than using cap space on guys like McD and his age/position fit the team's timeline quite well.

  3. #28
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    We have two untradeable players IMO: Jacob and DJ.

    These days, You don't find centers like Jacob who have some defensive skills and enough offensive skills with PNR (hands) to be good both ways. He's actually a stat machine among the league's centers without getting much credit for his accomplishments. Remember, he is often playing with 4 undersized players to help against rival bigs and under the boards. We have no one on the team who could adequately replace him so he is not for sale.

    DJ is turning into a better combo guard than I ever thought he would. He has really worked at his game and made lots of progress on his handle and his shooting skills. Not a superstar, but probably playing at All-Star level this year. Again, I don't see us able to replace his skills (and age) with anyone with equal or better skills in a trade. Smoke some substances and you might come up with a pipe dream trade that has no chance of being consummated. If there are better veterans available, you have to question why their teams would be willing to let them go. Either money or head case problems come to mind and we don't need that.

    I don't think any of the rest of the players are good enough to be the single crucial part of a team looking to upgrade and win it all this year. So none of those teams are going to be willing to part with a better player on a one for one basis unless there is a reason to unload him-- and taking three of our players to make up the difference in that mythical better All Star is a stretch. None of the above factors in the "small market curse" as it affects the at ude of players as to whether they WANT to come here. Not many folks will admit it, but a good part of that at ude may be that SA doesn't have a big and vibrant Black population. You don't hear that mentioned specifically from Black players when the idea of playing here comes up, but I bet it is a significant, if silent, factor in the minds of some players.

  4. #29
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Nobody on a 18-31 team with no all star players should be "undtradeable." The entire roster should be tradeable for the right price. Jak is probably one our best assets besides our picks. He is solid but he is not untouchable by any means. Replacing production on a lottery team is pointless. Spurs should consider every possible avenue to get better whether it means trading ST favorites or not , imo.

  5. #30
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I’m all for Collins but not at the expense of our lottery pick. He moves the needle but not enough for us to give up a potential top 5 pick and White. Collins is great but he’s not even the best player on his team and that team is struggling.

    White, Lonnie, multiple 2nd rounds and a first 3-4 years out I’m okay with.

    We have no business giving up a potential top 5 pick.

  6. #31
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Nobody on a 18-31 team with no all star players should be "undtradeable." The entire roster should be tradeable for the right price. Jak is probably one our best assets besides our picks. He is solid but he is not untouchable by any means. Replacing production on a lottery team is pointless. Spurs should consider every possible avenue to get better whether it means trading ST favorites or not , imo.
    This. No one is untouchable. Doesn't mean you give them away, but if the right deal comes along you pull the trigger.

  7. #32
    Believe.
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    They could always do what Toronto did to us and protect it top 18 or whatever. If the team is picking then, its becasue things are trending the right way...
    The big problem with doing that is unless you have them convert to 2nds quickly you end up tying up all your first rd picks because it goes year to year until it conveys. this would limit the first you could trade in the future.

  8. #33
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Is this where everyone falls in love with John Collins beyond all reason? What a fickle bunch of schoolgirls y'all are. If it's not Ben Simmons, it's John Collins. It's adorable.

  9. #34
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    IĎd take Collins for White and fillers any day

  10. #35
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    I'm skeptical of the Spurs interest in Collins after they passed on signing him to an offer sheet this summer. He's cheaper now than what they would have had him at by several million a year, but they could have had him and kept White and whatever else it would cost.

    Plus the fact that this draft is pretty heavy in PF candidates at the top, and they'll probably still be a bottom 10 team, hard to see it.

    I am surprised at the lack of talk about MCDERMOTT.

    He's a much better trade candidate: plug and play, no ego, starter or reserve, probably won't decline on his deal, and salary that's pretty easy to match for most teams.

    There's teams he could help.

    Minnesota for Prince and a protected first.

    Philadelphia for a Danny Green, filler and 2022 first. Green is hurt a lot and this just shifts that salary slot forward for a guy who can cut and shoot.

    Lakers for THT, filler and multiple seconds.

    Etc etc

  11. #36
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Except for those two times with Curry in Game 7 lol. Can't imagine the swing of emotion from Warrriors fans: oh Steph's got an iso on Love to wtf why did he pass it away to Draymond to oh he's got it back with another iso on Love to ing how did he blow that shot?

  12. #37
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    I'm skeptical of the Spurs interest in Collins after they passed on signing him to an offer sheet this summer. He's cheaper now than what they would have had him at by several million a year, but they could have had him and kept White and whatever else it would cost.

    Plus the fact that this draft is pretty heavy in PF candidates at the top, and they'll probably still be a bottom 10 team, hard to see it.

    I am surprised at the lack of talk about MCDERMOTT.

    He's a much better trade candidate: plug and play, no ego, starter or reserve, probably won't decline on his deal, and salary that's pretty easy to match for most teams.

    There's teams he could help.

    Minnesota for Prince and a protected first.

    Philadelphia for a Danny Green, filler and 2022 first. Green is hurt a lot and this just shifts that salary slot forward for a guy who can cut and shoot.

    Lakers for THT, filler and multiple seconds.

    Etc etc
    a lot of figureheads are proposing that Lakers package for Murray

  13. #38
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    20 pages here we come

  14. #39
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    This figures to be a fun deadline. The Spurs should have legitimate leverage under most scenarios, (considering there is no expectations for team success this year), yet we have pieces that would undeniably help teams if given the chance.

    Agree with the sentiments that nobody is untouchable though I would think DJ is as close to safe as any prior Spurs leaders, considering age, state of play, community standing etc.

  15. #40
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    There's no logic in Cedi. The Spurs already have Hernangomez and should be looking to draft their starting forward of the future.

    Hopefully the Spurs find a good package for Poeltl. The value of non-star centers is capped pretty hard. If I were the Spurs, I'd absolutely not commit to having my starting five be a well-paid role-player. If they keep their heads up, they can find a quality center much closer to the time when they need one. Unless they think they'll be a solid playoff compe or next year (and for s sake, no they aren't just some internal growth from that right now; they'd be in the lottery again next year), they aren't going to be in a position to get value out of having Jakob on the roster.

    Collins is intriguing. With Murray locked into the team for the foreseeable future, trading White is the only realistic way to break up the starting back-court duo that is going to cap the team's ceiling. If they can move him as the vast bulk of the value in a Collins trade, I can't say it would be bad. Of course, the Spurs could have just offer Collins a contract rather than go with McD and Zach, but that's in the past. Personally, if it's possible I'd rather the Spurs wait until the off-season to make a Collins trade. Murray and Collins aren't a contending duo. They'd still need a third star, beyond what Vassell or Primo can be expected to become. Hopefully, they'll find it through the draft, but even if they need to trade for that player, getting the highest 2022 draft pick possible is a key to that strategy. I think they're likely only a play-in team if they trade for Collins now, but even that could drop their pick immensely. Unless the Hawks need Thad or unless they're willing to take McDermott back, the Spurs should prefer holding off. Of course, if it's do or die, you deal with the lower pick.

    Also, they should trade Johnson. He's not a serious starter on a team with a real rotation. Very few teams have a combo-forward-in-a-good-way needed to make him work defensively. Maybe he could go to a team like Boston in exchange for the draft capital the Spurs need to off-set a Collins trade. Boston is one of the rare teams that could use him, especially if they otherwise trade Brown. Ideally, I'd like the Spurs to run Murray, 2022 first, Vassell, Collins, Poeltl as the starting five next season, even if we all know the Spurs will send the guy to Austin.

  16. #41
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Collins is on a 23 million dollar contract. That's actually ok and he's locked in for 5 years, 23 years old and fixes a major hole on the team. I say get him, but I wouldn't give up a Spurs first round pick. Maybe multiple 2nds including that high Detroit 2nd rounder. A package of White and Hernangomez (Not sure if the Spurs can trade him again, but I think they can) Detroit 2nd and a future 2nd would probably improve both teams.


    A 3-team deal would also work:

    Spurs get Collins and Osman
    Hawks get White and Young
    Cavs get Walker and Dieng or Lou Will

    include some 2nds to sweeten the deal

    bottom line is the Spurs should shop Young, Hernangomez, McDermott, Walker and they should see what they can get for White and Poeltl. If there's an upgrade available you go for it.

  17. #42
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    There's no logic in Cedi. The Spurs already have Hernangomez and should be looking to draft their starting forward of the future.

    Hopefully the Spurs find a good package for Poeltl. The value of non-star centers is capped pretty hard. If I were the Spurs, I'd absolutely not commit to having my starting five be a well-paid role-player. If they keep their heads up, they can find a quality center much closer to the time when they need one. Unless they think they'll be a solid playoff compe or next year (and for s sake, no they aren't just some internal growth from that right now; they'd be in the lottery again next year), they aren't going to be in a position to get value out of having Jakob on the roster.

    Collins is intriguing. With Murray locked into the team for the foreseeable future, trading White is the only realistic way to break up the starting back-court duo that is going to cap the team's ceiling. If they can move him as the vast bulk of the value in a Collins trade, I can't say it would be bad. Of course, the Spurs could have just offer Collins a contract rather than go with McD and Zach, but that's in the past. Personally, if it's possible I'd rather the Spurs wait until the off-season to make a Collins trade. Murray and Collins aren't a contending duo. They'd still need a third star, beyond what Vassell or Primo can be expected to become. Hopefully, they'll find it through the draft, but even if they need to trade for that player, getting the highest 2022 draft pick possible is a key to that strategy. I think they're likely only a play-in team if they trade for Collins now, but even that could drop their pick immensely. Unless the Hawks need Thad or unless they're willing to take McDermott back, the Spurs should prefer holding off. Of course, if it's do or die, you deal with the lower pick.

    Also, they should trade Johnson. He's not a serious starter on a team with a real rotation. Very few teams have a combo-forward-in-a-good-way needed to make him work defensively. Maybe he could go to a team like Boston in exchange for the draft capital the Spurs need to off-set a Collins trade. Boston is one of the rare teams that could use him, especially if they otherwise trade Brown. Ideally, I'd like the Spurs to run Murray, 2022 first, Vassell, Collins, Poeltl as the starting five next season, even if we all know the Spurs will send the guy to Austin.
    If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.

  18. #43
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.
    If they're content to get Johnson to come off the bench, I actually think he'd be a very good flex forward. But they shouldn't think of him as a starter, because he's not good enough to bend the rest of the lineup around him. They're going to need a good scoring wing next to Murray and Vassell, and I'd like them to have two bigs with size. Johnson as a 3.7 doesn't cut it for him. Even without Collins, I see Devin as the SF of the future and the draft as the place where their PF is.

  19. #44
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    Looks like Iím in the minority here, but I donít really want Collins. Watched him a handful of times this season and heís just not worth the money he makes. Poor offensive player unless itís garbage points, easy lobs from Trae, or the occasional open midrange jumper. Canít create his own offense whatsoever. Plus his at ude seems like it sucks.

    Heís a solid defender though which Iíd welcome. Along with his athleticism. No way Iíd give up a 1st for him though unless it was heavily protected. No chance. Iíd much rather have our FRP for the next 3 years.

  20. #45
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    He's shooting over 40 percent from three and is a clear positive in any offensive stat out there. WTF can one watch to get the impression he's poor or limited on that end? The idea that PFs are supposed to be creators should go too. The Spurs are a team full of guys who'd rather defer instead of finish plays. Collins shouldn't get for taking advantage of his perimeter players. He'd absolutely thrive being the outlet for Murray, Lonnie, Devin and the other guys.

  21. #46
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    If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.
    I feel the same way. In fact, I would rather wait until the summer to do any trades to keep from messing up our draft pick.

  22. #47
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    Good idea on a thread. Trad Young needs to happen soon. Poodle for Wiseman could be a panic move if another West contender makes a move.

  23. #48
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    Dejounte Murray - keep
    Devin Vassell - keep
    Joshua Primo - keep

    Jakob Poeltl - tradable
    Keldon Johnson - tradable
    Derrick White - tradable
    Doug McDermott - tradable
    Thaddeus Young - tradable
    Lonnie Walker IV - tradable
    Keita Bates-Diop - tradable
    Tre Jones - tradable

    Jock Landale - tradable/cut
    Drew Eubanks - tradable/cut
    Juancho Hernangůmez - tradable/cut

    Joe Wieskamp - wait and see

    Zach Collins - wait and see/tradable/cut

    Devontae Cacok - doesn't matter

  24. #49
    Veteran NASpurs's Avatar
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    It would be sick to have the Collins brothers on the same team.

  25. #50
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Looks like I’m in the minority here, but I don’t really want Collins. Watched him a handful of times this season and he’s just not worth the money he makes. Poor offensive player unless it’s garbage points, easy lobs from Trae, or the occasional open midrange jumper. Can’t create his own offense whatsoever. Plus his at ude seems like it sucks.

    He’s a solid defender though which I’d welcome. Along with his athleticism. No way I’d give up a 1st for him though unless it was heavily protected. No chance. I’d much rather have our FRP for the next 3 years.
    People here don't even know what they want. They were freaking out over Lauri Markkannen over the summer. The fact that Atlanta is wanting to get rid of him after signing him to a big contract should give everone pause. Plenty of news about him being a malcontent, too, as you say. People think they're playing a video game.

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