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  1. #101
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The point was that they’re both win now players. Either you want to come out of the tank, or not. I’m not doubting that Collins improves us, just how much, and is that the path for us to take.
    Sure but they're not tied together. Wanting to move on from Jakob assumes that we're not getting Collins. Atlanta isn't going to want Jakob directly in any trade, so we only send him off if the trade is 3 way in which case I'm still for it because Collins is worth it. But if you get Collins for White + filler + pick then you can keep Jakob. The Spurs at that point have a compe ive starting lineup, some young prospects for the bench, and have decent cap room this summer.

    Thats a pretty good situation.

  2. #102
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Chinook makes a good point too. Its not either or. If they get Collins for white + filler + pick then there is no reason to trade Jakob.
    Jakob/Collins would be great complimentary bigs. Still need to consider Jak is due for a payday in 2023. nothing to stop us from getting something now for him and bringing him back when he hits free agency in 2023 if the price is right and we likely have material cap space.

  3. #103
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I don't think getting Collins signifies the Spurs are making the play in or trying for it. Hawks right now are sitting in a similar position to us (12th seed) with superior talent. Collins is a good piece for the future but he is not going to turn our season around alone, especially factoring in what you're losing with White and trying to integrate him halfway thru the season. Spurs get Collins and they are still missing the playoffs, imo

  4. #104
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    My take on Jakob is that he's never going to be a legit playoff C if he doesn't improve his FT%.
    Legit as in closing games out, not on a stacked team like the Warriors.

    Right now his deal is a bargain, but we need to either extend or trade him this summer. And he'll definitely be in 15 million a year range.
    He's not worth that money for a playoff team unless he improves his FTs to 60% at least.

    And as good as he is on defense, he's a bad fit with our roster on offense.

    The way I look at it is that our long-term core is DJ, Devin, Keldon and Primo. Then we can either strike gold in lottery, improve by trading for a good player like Collins or go all in with a pipe dream trade.

    Someone mention Cleveland and I'm not against going the same route, but then we should commit to it. Trade Derrick, Doug and Thad for some more assets and go full tank.
    It's just that it looks like Pop is trying to be compe ive, but he's not willing to make any moves to improve the roster. And I'm not talking about throwing our own picks away, just trading players to get a better fit.

  5. #105
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    We are basically exchanging out chairs on the anic. To me it’s obvious we need a new coach and a couple great top 5 picks to get the ship corrected. DJM is a nice player, but I think he is close to wanting out. To his credit he hates losing and we are going to be doing a bunch of that the next couple of years. I sadly believe we owe Pop another year if he wants it. It may not be a horrible thing as he is a great tank commander, he’s out coached himself out of several wins this year.

  6. #106
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I don't think getting Collins signifies the Spurs are making the play in or trying for it. Hawks right now are sitting in a similar position to us (12th seed) with superior talent. Collins is a good piece for the future but he is not going to turn our season around alone, especially factoring in what you're losing with White and trying to integrate him halfway thru the season. Spurs get Collins and they are still missing the playoffs, imo
    Yup and hopefully we can “manage” the end of this season. We have a tough schedule between now and the end of the Rodeo Road trip. If Zion returns have to give the Pels the nod for the play in while we battle our tanking counterparts in the King and Blazers.

  7. #107
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I think the Spurs should punt on this season at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if they make a run at the play in even with no moves. Its not like the play in is a very high bar and these players won't give up. Worst case scenario is Spurs don't make any big moves, play substantially better down the stretch, and sneak into the play in game and get a late lottery pick again. The tank is not promised so ya'll may want to factor that into to your views, IMO.

  8. #108
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yup and hopefully we can “manage” the end of this season. We have a tough schedule between now and the end of the Rodeo Road trip. If Zion returns have to give the Pels the nod for the play in while we battle our tanking counterparts in the King and Blazers.
    You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?

  9. #109
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?
    I don’t. He is injured and terribly overweight. Zion is a pretty good kid from everything I’ve seen. Probably still leaves NO because it’s NO but no Kawhi ery from my perspective.

  10. #110
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?
    Zion looks pathetic feeding his face on the Mountain Dew - Cheetos commercial.

  11. #111
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    Brooklyn has said they will basically hang up on anyone calling about Harden at the trade deadline. Dame has been injured most of the season, and Beal seems content in DC, so the whole Simmons thing will probably roll into the summer FA/trade period.
    Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

    Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins

  12. #112
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

    Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins
    Simmons/Harris would be a ton of salary to move in one direction in a trade….

  13. #113
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    I don’t want Collins, because he’s going to up our draft pick. He’s probably not even good enough to elevate this team to the playoffs given a full season. I mean, DeRozan is a far better player, and he couldn’t do it the last two years. Why would you get a guy making $23M who likely can’t even make you a playoff team?

    dumb take. The roster obviously wasn't built to complement DeRozan's style of play. DeRozan also ain't a PF. Collins on the other hand complements the Spurs style of play perfectly and would fix the biggest hole on the team. Add to that that a lot of players improved their game, so this is not the same team as last years.

  14. #114
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

    Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins
    Harden will not be moved before the off-season. He has all the power in that situation. Collins and what might transpire around Harden/Simons are independent events.

  15. #115
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    Harden will not be moved before the off-season. He has all the power in that situation. Collins and what might transpire around Harden/Simons are independent events.
    Not if ATL is Morey’s plan B. Do agree it all goes down this summer thigh

  16. #116
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    Simmons/Harris would be a ton of salary to move in one direction in a trade….
    It’s insane to add Harris; that said, theoretically the appeal of ATL for Philly is that they have the Contracts to do it between Collins, Bobdon , and, critically for Philly, Gallos’ near expiring deal.

  17. #117
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.
    2 years younger not 1. Collins was born in 97, Jakob 95. 1 month difference. Google is your friend.

  18. #118
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    dumb take. The roster obviously wasn't built to complement DeRozan's style of play. DeRozan also ain't a PF. Collins on the other hand complements the Spurs style of play perfectly and would fix the biggest hole on the team. Add to that that a lot of players improved their game, so this is not the same team as last years.
    ATL is struggling to make the play in with both Collins AND Trae, who is better than anyone on our roster. How is Collins supposed to elevate this group, none of whom is 70% as talented as Trae?

    Dumb take, yourself.

  19. #119
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    Ideally, I would see the roster going forward as:

    Murray / White / Primo all splitting minutes at the 1&2 (32mpg each)
    Vassell / Johnson splitting minutes at the 3 (24mpg each)
    Some kind of roster upgrade at PF
    Poeltl / Landale splitting minutes at the 5 (30/18mpg respectively)

    With the rest of the roster fighting for backup / Covid / injury / b2b minutes.

    I have been 100% on #teamTank to get one of the top big men in the draft but, at our current position, we have a 23.4% chance for a top 3 pick (that still only goes up to 40% for the worst team in the league). If we have a chance to get Collins without losing one of the players listed above, then it accomplishes what I wanted in the draft anyway. If we have to give up White to do it, I would still pull the trigger because White is the oldest and most often injured of those listed, and would be replaced by the many options of SGs in the draft. If Zollins pans out, then we'd finally have a well-rounded team (albeit still young). Let them play 100% next season to gel together and evaluate... and use the massive cap space in '23 as needed.

  20. #120
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Decent take, but I think after 5 seasons, a guy drafted at #19 isn’t going to show any shocking improvements. YMMV.

    you mean like Murray, who got drafted at #29 and is now in year 6 still improving? WTF has draft position to do with improvements? Also players usually improve on the defensive side of the floor when they come over and get coached by Pop. A lot of them also get a e in efficiency.

  21. #121
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    ATL is struggling to make the play in with both Collins AND Trae, who is better than anyone on our roster. How is Collins supposed to elevate this group, none of whom is 70% as talented as Trae?

    Dumb take, yourself.

    that's such a weak argument. I just said it's about style of play. Besides that Collins is clearly unhappy in Atlanta. Maybe that plays a part? Why were they in the ECF with him last year then? How can a team go from being in the ECF to being a lottery team in one year? I'd like to hear your take on that

    That's like saying we shouldn't get AD, because he's fighting to get the Lakers into the play-in and he got LeBron on his team. LeBron is better than anybody on our team. How would AD help the Spurs?

  22. #122
    Veteran NASpurs's Avatar
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    Dang, exstatic is like the community toilet because everyone takes a on him here.

  23. #123
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Nah, Ex is good people. He fights the good fight. Even in this case, I don't really disagree with him. I think most of us would prefer to get a high pick this year before making a move to improve next year. I'm just willing to get a slightly worse pick if that was the only way to get Collins, and he thinks the pick being high is the most important thing.

  24. #124
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    Dang, exstatic is like the community toilet because everyone takes a on him here.
    Lol Exstatic takes some getting used to I always wonder what he does for a living and I figured he is either a lawyer, accountant, or programmer- Cause my man doesn’t give a F on anyone’s feelings he is more facts and very little emotion. I don’t take it personal when he s on any of my takes cause it’s not personal for him that is just who he is. Also he is a really good poster I always read his posts his knowledge on contracts, salary, trade rules is far superior then mine.

    But just for the record Exstatic we did Tank for David & Timmy - Lol

  25. #125
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Lol Exstatic takes some getting used to I always wonder what he does for a living and I figured he is either a lawyer, accountant, or programmer- Cause my man doesn’t give a F on anyone’s feelings he is more facts and very little emotion. I don’t take it personal when he s on any of my takes cause it’s not personal for him that is just who he is. Also he is a really good poster I always read his posts his knowledge on contracts, salary, trade rules is far superior then mine.

    But just for the record Exstatic we did Tank for David & Timmy - Lol
    Not bad for just 3 guesses…

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