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  1. #151
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    White has the best On Court +/- per 100 possessions on the team (+12.1) and his On-Off +/- per 100 possessions is +5.8... Their point differential as a team is +6.6 per game. I think he's a perfect 6th man for that team.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../BOS/2022.html
    What is On-Off?

  2. #152
    Peace! bluebellmaniac's Avatar
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    NVM, I think I figured it out.

  3. #153
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    If a guy plays more than half the game in non-garbage time and his +/- is always positive I would like him to be on the court even if his stat is straight 0s. It means every time he is on the court our team is winning. Or you guys prefer triple double guys with negative +/- all the time?

  4. #154
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    If a guy plays more than half the game in non-garbage time and his +/- is always positive I would like him to be on the court even if his stat is straight 0s. It means every time he is on the court our team is winning. Or you guys prefer triple double guys with negative +/- all the time?
    cough*Lonnie*cough

  5. #155
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Itís not often that a trade is truly mutual, but this one looks to have benefited both very well. Seeing Richardson ball out has me kinda hoping they donít use him for draft capitol.
    I think that would depend on what happens this summer. If by some miracle, we jump into the top 4 from our ish draft position, they might keep him. If we're picking all 3 FRPs at 10 or worse, we'll be looking at another year like this without a decent FA signing or signings. At that point, he becomes a luxury that we don't need. I mean, we got a first for Thad Young and a second. JRich should pull us a FRP.

  6. #156
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I'll get on my Bonner soap box if this keeps going. There's no a player who proves how valuable plus-minus is more than him. People who think he invalidates the stat are taking the exact wrong message from his numbers.

  7. #157
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Is Derrick White a more influential Spur than Matt Bonner? Those sandwiches look pretty damn good, but Derrick White had a 36 pt game in the playoffs once (we blew the series) and that dunk on Milsap was dirty.

  8. #158
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Whites last 3 GP, 32 MPG, 14 PPG, 45% FG, 37% 3PT, 4 RPG, 5 APG


  9. #159
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    The better our traded outgoing players perform, the better the return on future trades. It improves the brand.

  10. #160
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Whites last 3 GP, 32 MPG, 14 PPG, 45% FG, 37% 3PT, 4 RPG, 5 APG
    lol and the 10 before that? Wish him the best but glad he is gone.

  11. #161
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    Whites last 3 GP, 32 MPG, 14 PPG, 45% FG, 37% 3PT, 4 RPG, 5 APG
    in last nights 1 point OT loss he bricked a 3, missed a bunny, and got blocked twice in the last 3 mins of OT

  12. #162
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Bench role is good for him tbh. Not saying he doesnít fit well. Just that he hasnít played particularly well
    I understand pointing out that he's had some shooting percentage issues, but there's more to playing well than that. One example: since joining Boston, White has had 74 assists and 24 turnovers. That's a pretty great ratio. His block % and steal %s are both better than Keldon Johnson's. His shooting percentages at the rim, from midrange, and from the FT line are all better than KJ's too. He's definitely a better defender than most. The idea that he "isn't playing well" doesn't stand up.

  13. #163
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    in last nights 1 point OT loss he bricked a 3, missed a bunny, and got blocked twice in the last 3 mins of OT
    4/16 in 41 mins; one of his best games a Celtic. Tatum and Brown out and once again he can’t step up.

  14. #164
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I understand pointing out that he's had some shooting percentage issues, but there's more to playing well than that. One example: since joining Boston, White has had 74 assists and 24 turnovers. That's a pretty great ratio. His block % and steal %s are both better than Keldon Johnson's. His shooting percentages at the rim, from midrange, and from the FT line are all better than KJ's too. He's definitely a better defender than most. The idea that he "isn't playing well" doesn't stand up.
    his assist/turnover ratio isnt any better on the celtics than it was here despite having a stronger supporting cast now. keldon has never been a particularly good defender and they play different positions so i dont really understand comparing them to make a point. and stl% and block% arent particularly great metrics to do that anyway

    white has always been a solid defender and i dont expect that to change, but just hand waiving his awful scoring efficiency doesnt make sense either, and its not like its a recent development. he shot 41% from the field last season and is shooting 41% from the field this season.

    i always liked white here. i dont think hes a bad player at all. i think he's a player that would help any team in the league as a reserve guard. but ignoring his awful shooting this year, and particularly since the trade, isnt helpful either.

  15. #165
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    his assist/turnover ratio isnt any better on the celtics than it was here despite having a stronger supporting cast now. keldon has never been a particularly good defender and they play different positions so i dont really understand comparing them to make a point. and stl% and block% arent particularly great metrics to do that anyway

    white has always been a solid defender and i dont expect that to change, but just hand waiving his awful scoring efficiency doesnt make sense either, and its not like its a recent development. he shot 41% from the field last season and is shooting 41% from the field this season.

    i always liked white here. i dont think hes a bad player at all. i think he's a player that would help any team in the league as a reserve guard. but ignoring his awful shooting this year, and particularly since the trade, isnt helpful either.
    I don't think I've hand-waived or ignored his shooting woes at all-- I've acknowledged them multiple times in the thread. My point has always been that he's doing everything else at a pretty impressive level, has extremely positive impact stats & defensive stats, and is clearly helpful to winning when he has been on the floor with the Celtics. I've never tried in any way to deny he's having 3pt shooting woes. My point has always been that, despite those woes, he's still a net positive as a player.

  16. #166
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I don't think I've hand-waived or ignored his shooting woes at all-- I've acknowledged them multiple times in the thread. My point has always been that he's doing everything else at a pretty impressive level, has extremely positive impact stats & defensive stats, and is clearly helpful to winning when he has been on the floor with the Celtics. I've never tried in any way to deny he's having 3pt shooting woes. My point has always been that, despite those woes, he's still a net positive as a player.
    he's basically been for the celtics as good as he'd been for us the past year and a half (but with worse shooting so far). the difference is the celtics aren't counting on him to be a #2 or #3 offensive option, which we were asking of him, and he clearly wasnt fit to be despite some glimpses. i think the spurs made out well in the trade, and its not like the celtics winning spree is making me second guess that, because its not like its the result of white suddenly playing at a much higher level

  17. #167
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    he's basically been for the celtics as good as he'd been for us the past year and a half (but with worse shooting so far). the difference is the celtics aren't counting on him to be a #2 or #3 offensive option, which we were asking of him, and he clearly wasnt fit to be despite some glimpses. i think the spurs made out well in the trade, and its not like the celtics winning spree is making me second guess that, because its not like its the result of white suddenly playing at a much higher level

    he is what he is. People here were acting like he was going to blow up once he got outta sa

  18. #168
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    .Just that he hasn’t played particularly well
    he's basically been for the celtics as good as he'd been for us the past year and a half (but with worse shooting so far). the difference is the celtics aren't counting on him to be a #2 or #3 offensive option, which we were asking of him, and he clearly wasnt fit to be despite some glimpses. i think the spurs made out well in the trade, and its not like the celtics winning spree is making me second guess that, because its not like its the result of white suddenly playing at a much higher level
    I never said he was playing at a higher level or any of that other stuff. My point was simply that you said he hasn't played well and I think what you mean is that he hasn't shot well. His defense has been extremely good, his assist to turnover ratio is good, his steal and block rates are good, his FT% is great, and all of his advanced stats are good. The idea that a guy can't be a good player if he's experiencing a 3pt shooting slump is the fallacy I was commenting on, not whether the trade made sense (I've said numerous times in this thread that it did) or any other topic.

  19. #169
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I never said he was playing at a higher level or any of that other stuff. My point was simply that you said he hasn't played well and I think what you mean is that he hasn't shot well. His defense has been extremely good, his assist to turnover ratio is good, his steal and block rates are good, his FT% is great, and all of his advanced stats are good. The idea that a guy can't be a good player if he's experiencing a 3pt shooting slump is the fallacy I was commenting on, not whether the trade made sense (I've said numerous times in this thread that it did) or any other topic.
    I said he hasn’t played particularly well, and he hasn’t. Shooting/scoring is a big part of it. steal and block percentage are kinda odd stats to use to say he’s defending well. Not to say he isn’t defending well but those are weird numbers to point to.

  20. #170
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I said he hasnít played particularly well, and he hasnít. Shooting/scoring is a big part of it. steal and block percentage are kinda odd stats to use to say heís defending well. Not to say he isnít defending well but those are weird numbers to point to.

    I didn't use block and steal rates to say he's defending well. I said "His defense has been extremely good, his assist to turnover ratio is good, his steal and block rates are good, his FT% is great, and all of his advanced stats are good." I was pointing out six different facets of his game that were examples of why I thought he was playing well despite his shooting troubles. If you want proof beyond the eye test of his defense, I'd point you to the EPM stat of dunksandthrees.com, which ranks him as #5 defensively in the league, or the overall defensive RAPTOR of fivethirtyeight.com, which ranks him #12 in the league, or any number of other metrics which all generally rate him as a great defender, but I imagine you'll find a way with all of them to just keep saying he's not playing well because his 3pt% is poor.

  21. #171
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I didn't use block and steal rates to say he's defending well. I said "His defense has been extremely good, his assist to turnover ratio is good, his steal and block rates are good, his FT% is great, and all of his advanced stats are good." I was pointing out six different facets of his game that were examples of why I thought he was playing well despite his shooting troubles. If you want proof beyond the eye test of his defense, I'd point you to the EPM stat of dunksandthrees.com, which ranks him as #5 defensively in the league, or the overall defensive RAPTOR of fivethirtyeight.com, which ranks him #12 in the league, or any number of other metrics which all generally rate him as a great defender, but I imagine you'll find a way with all of them to just keep saying he's not playing well because his 3pt% is poor.
    I’ve always said he’s a good defender. I just said those particular stats dont mean much to me

  22. #172
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    I’ve always said he’s a good defender. I just said those particular stats dont mean much to me

    I guess I just don't get why you're so convinced that he isn't playing well because of a single deficiency in his game. Giannis is shooting the same percentage from three as Derrick (30%), and he's an MVP candidate. I don't get why you're so adamant that a mediocre 3pt%=bad play or bad overall impact. Dejounte Murray is shooting 31.9% from three and he's an all star. Would you say Dejounte isn't playing well?

  23. #173
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I guess I just don't get why you're so convinced that he isn't playing well because of a single deficiency in his game. Giannis is shooting the same percentage from three as Derrick (30%), and he's an MVP candidate. I don't get why you're so adamant that a mediocre 3pt%=bad play or bad overall impact. Dejounte Murray is shooting 31.9% from three and he's an all star. Would you say Dejounte isn't playing well?
    Because its the most important aspect of the game of basketball? Scoring and shooting matter more than defense.

  24. #174
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Because its the most important aspect of the game of basketball? Scoring and shooting matter more than defense.
    Then why is Boston so much better with him, and not the scoring/shooting JRich? If what you're saying is true, they never should have made the trade...

  25. #175
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    Derrick has been THE Changemaker for BOS. Their offense actually flows now, and defensively he makes them that much more stout. Itís the BBIQ upgrade honestly.

    Weíll see how they fair w/o Williams during this key stretch. Helps spurs anyway, if they lose a few gamesÖ

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