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If you actually watch him play, he's clueless in a lot of actual basketball things. His advanced stats are pretty terrible, too. You people are as bad as that guy who wants to trade our lottery pick for Kai Jones.
Agree with everything but the last two sentences. Spurs won't be a worse team next year, but I do think they've got a solid shot at again being a lottery team, with the current lineup. They'll keep getting valuable minutes and building 'culture'. But barring injury, I don't see Phoenix, Memphis, Golden State, Dallas, Utah, or Denver being worse than the Spurs. All have mismatches the current roster can't answer. Minnesota and LAC will continue having mismatches as well.
Spurs will again be gritty and scrappy, but because they have no one that creates mismatches night after night, they'll keep losing close games. I give us much more than a small chance at a top-10 pick next year.
If you actually watch him play, he's clueless in a lot of actual basketball things. His advanced stats are pretty terrible, too. You people are as bad as that guy who wants to trade our lottery pick for Kai Jones.
He'll never be top 10 of all time, because he won't play enough games. He'll be 31 when next season starts, and he's barely above 11,000 points.
I agree with this mostly.
The thing that may change their analysis though is the combo of a poor showing in these playoffs, an assessment that Klay won’t ever return to full form along with Green declining, and a mega tax bill to go along with that. Does this then hasten the urgency for them to use Wiseman to get a win now piece or two this off season?
I suspect their big three is of that mindset given rumors of the same last year.
If GSW were serious about moving him, I’d think long and hard about a Jak + BOS pick for him.
I don’t think Wiseman fits well with GSW’s roster. I still like his potential, but I don’t see his fit unless the Spurs plan on moving Poodle. I have this feeling GSW are going to be shopping a Wiseman and Wiggins package to a lot of teams.
Okay, so you said what a lot of people are saying - Ivey over Keegan Murray. I'm curious... what do you think that Ivey does that much better than DJ? More to the point, if you select Ivey and keep Murray, how do you balance the rest of this roster? I'm not sniping at you, just wondering where you see them going from there?
The other thing is that you seem to be thinking (so do a lot of other people) that the Spurs find a diamond in a pile of gravel. Basically find a franchise player somewhere later in a future draft. It happens. I mean, there's Jokic at 41. But even Giannis took a 15 pick to snag. It just about depresses me to think about being mediocre long enough to find one of those at 15. To me, this is a critical draft for my own personal satisfaction and mental health.
I'm not going to get into true "generational" talent, because getting that requires stars aligning, one way or another. You can't have a half-dozen generational players running around at the same time, or they're not really generational players. But if you're talking about top-tier players that can truly dominate and put a team on their shoulders, what are you looking for? I mean you, personally?
Too bad for the Warriors that Wiseman is a near bust so far. They get wrecked by teams with any size.
There isn't any good reason to keep the draftees under 20. Bigs are oftentimes a couple of years slower developing. There are also good reasons for both Euro and college players to stay a couple of years developing a post game and physically. Especially if they are Fringe first round picks. You aren't going to be talking about franchise players in those catagories but a guy who can become a solid starter or rotation player is definitely a possibility. The Aaron Barnes of the world is a good example, of a recent player in that category. Choosing to be a four year college player shouldn't hurt someone bdraft stock wise if they could have chosen to come out earlier. College players also can get paid now so it makes more sense for them to stay if they are still developing and happy instead of 1 and done.
It makes perfect sense to rent out cap space for assets, kick our TOR and BOS picks down the road, etc... but I do fear it just leads to a never ending "yeah we suck now but the future is bright!" scenario. We made some pretty decent moves to acquire FRPs this year... and now we don't know what to do with them. What's going to be different about the future?
I get the strategy of hoping the ping pong balls fall our way, like they did in 87, 89 and 97 (wow, the draft odds were f'd up in the 80s, lol), but is that really what we should be counting on? Seems like OKC, Hou, Det, and Orl have all been playing this game for years and have made zero progress to being a better team.
This is why I'd like to see us use the picks to acquire an established PF who can come up in and play now. It is unlikely we are going to be a worse team next year, but being only a few games better doesn't move the needle. Why not try to be 10+ games better with a smart PF addition that can be acquired with, say, the 20th pick and Josh Richardson (or some other combo of assets).
I love the idea of landing a blue chip lotto pick... but are we just holding our breath and waiting for superman at this point?
1) Good question. Wright said Primo is on his own timeline and there's no pressure. Thus, it's very possible they're not worried about how he jells with Dejounte, Devin, or Keldon. They realize one or more of those guys may not be here by the time Primo matures, if he does. Meanwhile, right now is DJ/Devin/Keldon's time as the featured players with this team. So in the event of a lottery miracle that scores Jaden Ivey, I suspect PATFO would follow the same logic as with Primo. The Primo pick made no sense to me last year, considering we needed help at PF so badly and already had so many guards. However, PATFO thought Primo was BPA. So I'm thinking the Spurs might be building developmental waves and not invested in 'win rings NOW with DJ, Devin, and Keldon'. So then the question of how Ivey plays with Primo is more vital than how Ivey plays with DJ. I'd love for us to find a way to win a ring with Dejounte, Devin, and Keldon, but the timelines may not work out that way.
2) I was actually saying the opposite of finding a diamond in a pile of gravel. It's unlikely to happen, so I'm hoping more for the swing for a generational talent to unlock the potential of the players we have at a given moment. Spurs will keep building a team of role players until that time. So when does that generational talent come along? Whether it happens by draft, trade, or free agency, it's hard to say, but it's plain to see that it's not happening this summer. I'm with you 100% in that I'm a lifelong Spurs fan who wants to contend for rings every single year, but I also know that we had 15+ years of guys who created mismatches in Tony, Tim, and Manu. Add Kawhi in there for a short time. No current Spur is going to magically turn into a monster mismatch. They are what they are.
3) When I say generational, I mean guys who generationally change their team, creating a mismatch that opponents cannot counter for four quarters because the player either takes over or creates easy opportunities for others. So right now -- Doncic does that for Dallas, Morant for the Grizzlies, Booker/Paul for Phoenix, Curry for GSW, Giannis for the Bucks, Jokic for Denver, Durant for Brooklyn, you get the idea. They do it year after year after year for a given team. The Spurs currently don't have a guy who can take over a game night after night, year after year. That's what I mean by generational. That's what all of us want for the Spurs, but none of the current players are that caliber of mismatch. It's safe to say none of the current ones are going to become one. That said -- I'm not a huge fan of Primo so far, but it's possibly too early to include him in that. Meanwhile, the Spurs will bide their time 'til one comes along and keep developing waves of solid role players. It's not a bad strategy. It's just not a 'win now' strategy.
That's an overpay. Wiseman is more likely to be a bust than a star at this point and I'm starting to lean on the side of not even wanting to trade Jakob alone for him since he never returned to play this season. Could very well end up the next Stromile Swift, Derrick Williams, or Evan Turner. No way in I'm including a first round pick if I'm taking all the risk while giving the Warriors an elite defender and starting caliber center. I think I'd ask them to include the pick.
^ we’re just people shooting the breeze for fun in here. I have to think the pros have a plan, especially, as you say, after a good year of shrewd maneuvers etc.
What I do think we’re owed as fans is a sense of the theory of the case/strategy for progress. I think we have an early sense that it appear to be a “develop within + lure attractive to FA with our young pieces” model, but will that be sustainable in 3 years where we too out at the 6th seed?
That’s what makes Weisman so polarizing. I can totally see your rationale too.
It all depends on whether spurs want to keep Jak beyond this year at the price he’ll command, which makes me uneasy.
Think I’d rather draft Jalen Duren then trade for Wiseman tbh
I would rather draft Keller Williams, or Mark Williams then trade Jak for Wiseman
You assume Jak would re-sign here. i could see him leaving when his contract is up especially if there is more money elsewhere. Having Wiseman on a rookie deal would give the Spurs a great advantage on retaining him on his next contract.
That’s actually my point. Jak is expiring and his next deal may be larger than the team would want to pay. If you are determined not to give him that big deal, the team has got to move him this summer for value. Much harder after that.
Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.
From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...
^ what a life man. Dude will flame out and have collected 20M before he’s 22 years.
There was a time a couple posters would have given their left nut for the Spurs to draft Wiseman…Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.
From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...
Wiseman is the perfect example why it would be ludicrous to trade DJ for a top 3 pick in this draft.
This has been my case for a while. Those top picks are killer if you whiff on them.Hard to disagree tbh. I liked Wiseman coming out of college but he has missed so much developmental time due to injuries and other issues. He's even further behind the curve now and significantly more expensive...
There is a chance the Warriors decline that 4th year option ala Jalen Smith with Phoenix.
From Sporttrac. Look at the QO from year 5. Wowsers...
Top picks are killer, anyway, unless they're truly stars. Detroit, Orlando, Houston are all back at the top of the lottery, just as ty as they were last year, so they're each adding another salary drag onto their roster. I don't know if anyone at the top is a franchise guy, but once that extension hits, wowza. A big, but understated, reason why ty franchises remain ty.
I'm gonna disagree...that's like saying Jason Tatum is an example why we should trade DJ for a top 3 pick in the draft. The decision isn't made in a vacuum nor is it a sure boom or bust. It's a gamble and you're betting on our talent evaluation skills.
I think it has as much to do with how our FO sees our timeline for competing.. DJ will get expensive in a couple years so are we going all-in in that time to put high end players around him? Or do they take a longer look and try to get players on Primo's and a high pick this year's timeline? I don't have the answer but, their viewpoint will determine if trading DJ is worth the gamble.
My guess is we make trades and build around DJ (and that's probably my preference) but I could see the argument for going the trade up route as well.
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