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  1. #201
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    We won’t have cap room to do that. LaVine, at $40M/yr, would be it. He’s already said he’s giving no discounts. The only way this works is if we jump into the top 3 picks. I don’t believe Ivey would even do the trick to elevate us to contenders. Only one of the three bigs could turn that trick.
    Lavine is a no brainer with a top 3 pick, especially if you can sign him outright for 4yrs/160mm versus giving up assets in a sign and trade.

    You could easily use some combo of McDermott, Jak, Keldon, Vassell, JRich plus draft capital to go over the cap for another max player if the opportunity arose.

  2. #202
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Lavine is a no brainer with a top 3 pick, especially if you can sign him outright for 4yrs/160mm versus giving up assets in a sign and trade.

    You could easily use some combo of McDermott, Jak, Keldon, Vassell, JRich plus draft capital to go over the cap for another max player if the opportunity arose.
    We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

    Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.

  3. #203
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

    Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.
    Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Lavine would start at 36.5mm or so and Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.

    With bird rights for all of the players I mentioned earlier we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market over the next few years.

  4. #204
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

    Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.
    Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.


    With bird rights for all of those players we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market.

  5. #205
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Lavine would start at 36.5mm or so and Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.

    With bird rights for all of the players I mentioned earlier we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market over the next few years.
    Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

    Spotrac cap and tax page for next year

    Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

    ** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.

  6. #206
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    Wouldn't the first year for LaVine be something like 36.6?

    That's doable pretty easy if they don't move up in the draft. They could attach a second to Langford so they wouldn't have to waive and stretch to OKC or Indiana. Draft a euro with 25 and have him stay in Europe. Waive KBD.

    DJM, McD, JRich, Poeltl, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Trey, Zollins, Jock, #9, #20 = 12 players, no need for roster charges with 12, total salary about 82.96 million. That would give them $39 million in room, more than enough to sign LaVine. Unless my math is wildly off

  7. #207
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

    Spotrac cap and tax page for next year

    Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

    ** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.
    Spurs with pretty minimal work can get the space required…If they just let all FA walk/waive all non-fully guaranteed deals, they can sign Lavine outright.

  8. #208
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    And if they move into the top 3 of the lottery, they'll know they'll have a new big to add, and they can cut Zollins, and the difference in his guarantee and the upgraded salary of the pick is enough to cover.

  9. #209
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Could easily find a way to sign Lavine ouright as we have close to 40mm in cap assuming 2022-23 salary cap of 122m and Walker renounced. Collins is an easy lever to pull to free up cap.


    With bird rights for all of those players we can go over the cap to retain them or sign and trade them so while we won’t have cap space we could have a ton of flex in the trade market.
    Regarding Spurs summer 2022 cap space:

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/SAS.html

    we have near 40mm if we renounce Walker less 10-15mm for our 3FRPs depending on where our lottery pick falls and if we keep all 3.

  10. #210
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    It is nothing compared to what FO had to do to fit LA into the space.

  11. #211
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Zollins was already included in renouncing and option dropping to get to the $22M figure. You also have to include salary slots for empty roster spots, and holds for Keldon and our draft picks. We will likely have to swing some sort of S&T to get him, and send out Poeltl and JRich to a third team that may have something that Chicago wants.

    Spotrac cap and tax page for next year

    Sort by Projected Practical cap space, which is:

    ** denotes cap space with cap holds renounced if team salary was below the cap maximum. Assumes veteran club options declined and non-guaranteed players released.
    Your number ls are off.

    - Keldon is under contract and does not have a cap hold for summer 2022.
    - cap holds for our FRPs assuming 9, 20, 25 amount to ~11mm. If we get a top 3 pick closer to 15mm and that assumes we actually use all 3 picks
    - there are no cap holds for empty roster spots if you have 12 under contract and we will certainly have more so that is negligible
    - KBD and Landale are only
    partial guarantees
    - Zollins is a very easy lever to pull even if you guarantee the 7mm you can salary dump him with an SRP no problem

  12. #212
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the first year for LaVine be something like 36.6?

    That's doable pretty easy if they don't move up in the draft. They could attach a second to Langford so they wouldn't have to waive and stretch to OKC or Indiana. Draft a euro with 25 and have him stay in Europe. Waive KBD.

    DJM, McD, JRich, Poeltl, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Trey, Zollins, Jock, #9, #20 = 12 players, no need for roster charges with 12, total salary about 82.96 million. That would give them $39 million in room, more than enough to sign LaVine. Unless my math is wildly off
    Looks good to me sir.

  13. #213
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    ESPN back at it again pushing bull lakers propaganda.



  14. #214
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Your number ls are off.

    - Keldon is under contract and does not have a cap hold for summer 2022.
    - cap holds for our FRPs assuming 9, 20, 25 amount to ~11mm. If we get a top 3 pick closer to 15mm and that assumes we actually use all 3 picks
    - there are no cap holds for empty roster spots if you have 12 under contract and we will certainly have more so that is negligible
    - KBD and Landale are only
    partial guarantees
    - Zollins is a very easy lever to pull even if you guarantee the 7mm you can salary dump him with an SRP no problem
    They’re not my numbers, they’re Spotrac’s. There’s a link in my response to you that shows a league wide view by teams. If you click thru to the SA team page, it’s spelled out pretty clearly, player by player.

  15. #215
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    ESPN back at it again pushing bull lakers propaganda.


    haha of course NYC and LA would consider that but why would the Bulls ever do that?

  16. #216
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    Exactly. Chicago would rather let LaVine walk for nothing than take on Randle’s horrible contract.

  17. #217
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    They’re not my numbers, they’re Spotrac’s. There’s a link in my response to you that shows a league wide view by teams. If you click thru to the SA team page, it’s spelled out pretty clearly, player by player.
    Indeed there is. And KingKev is right about the numbers.

  18. #218
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Indeed there is. And KingKev is right about the numbers.
    What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?

  19. #219
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    We don't have $40M in cap room, only slightly more than half of that, like $22M if we renounce all FAs and options like Lonnie and Zollins.

    Two of those players contracts are ending after next season, and I doubt we find any max asset before then. If we sign LaVine, we won't have any cap room for the forseeable future. If we sign Lavine, he and this year's draft pick have to elevate us to contender status. He's it, as far as cap room/free agency goes.
    Collins isn't an free agent, doesn't have an option and at best is only being counted as if he's waived and not stretched. If they release/stretch any of their partially guaranteed money and don't keep Walker, they are at about $32 Million. That includes the holds for the first-rounders, which the team can stash/trade/renounce. The Spurs can create the cap space without too much pain to make a signing happen. They can also use that fact as leverage to get Chicago to agree to a reasonable S&T using the contracts they have and preserve about $26 Million in cap space to use on acquiring another player, which is enough to take back John Collins, Grant or many of the other bigs people want. That's with the Spurs mostly trading picks and vets. If they add in some guys like Johnson, Vassell or Primo, they'll get even more flexibility.

    Something like McDermott, Richardson and Johnson would even be enough, which might save on most of the value going back. Or obviously you could swap out Johnson for basically any other guaranteed player like Langford if the team was willing to include a pick or two. Or the team could waive/stretch Collins and salary-dump/stretch Langford to sign Lavine outright and then trade Richardson and McDermott (along with sweetener) for a PF. There's actually a ton of flexibility. I don't know what Sportac puts into their calculations, but even just putting their numbers into an Excel sheet and using the add function shows there's a lot of flexibility they don't see to factor in.

  20. #220
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    To put it into perspective, this is possible:

    Murray, Jones
    Lavine, Richardson
    Vassell, Johnson
    Collins,
    Poeltl,

    With 9/20/25/38 and the RE still in the chamber. If Jones and/or a first or two this year is traded as part of the Collins deal, then the Spurs could end up keeping KBD and/or Landale. I arbitrarily chose Primo to be the one outgoing, though Johnson or Vassell could fit. It's possible all three of them could stay. I'm being relatively conservative with the napkin math here.

  21. #221
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?
    There's nothing incorrect about their numbers, they just seem to include all cap holds, including Walker's to come up with that $22 mil number. There's obviously a ton of flexibility that isn't reflected in it - renouncing players, draft and stash, etc.

  22. #222
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I did a quick Excel conversion of the Spurs' salary picture assuming they stretch Collins and Langford:
    Dejounte Murray $16,571,120
    Doug McDermott $13,750,000
    Josh Richardson $12,196,094
    Jakob Poeltl $9,398,148
    Zach Collins (Stretched) $735,000
    Romeo Langford (Stretched) $1,878,086
    Devin Vassell $4,437,000
    Joshua Primo $4,144,320
    Keldon Johnson $3,873,025
    Round 1, Pick #9 $4,995,840
    Round 1, Pick #20 $2,886,240
    Round 1, Pick #25 $2,353,680
    Total $77,218,553
    Cap $113,256,585
    Cap Space $36,038,032

    So they can basically get there unambiguously by just paying someone to take Langford away completely or by trading out out of the first for one of their picks.

  23. #223
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    What do you find incorrect about Spotrac's numbers? Any specifics?
    The 22mm in cap space they forecast includes 20mm in cap holds for Walker, Weiskamp, Woodard, Stewert and Ca .

    The 82mm in active cal should be your starting point plus cap holds for the 3 FRPs

  24. #224
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    haha of course NYC and LA would consider that but why would the Bulls ever do that?
    I guess you mean NY is stupid enough to consider it. Russell Albatros Westbrook + 2 picks from the next century or whatever, lol.

  25. #225
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Collins isn't an free agent, doesn't have an option and at best is only being counted as if he's waived and not stretched. If they release/stretch any of their partially guaranteed money and don't keep Walker, they are at about $32 Million. That includes the holds for the first-rounders, which the team can stash/trade/renounce. The Spurs can create the cap space without too much pain to make a signing happen. They can also use that fact as leverage to get Chicago to agree to a reasonable S&T using the contracts they have and preserve about $26 Million in cap space to use on acquiring another player, which is enough to take back John Collins, Grant or many of the other bigs people want. That's with the Spurs mostly trading picks and vets. If they add in some guys like Johnson, Vassell or Primo, they'll get even more flexibility.

    Something like McDermott, Richardson and Johnson would even be enough, which might save on most of the value going back. Or obviously you could swap out Johnson for basically any other guaranteed player like Langford if the team was willing to include a pick or two. Or the team could waive/stretch Collins and salary-dump/stretch Langford to sign Lavine outright and then trade Richardson and McDermott (along with sweetener) for a PF. There's actually a ton of flexibility. I don't know what Sportac puts into their calculations, but even just putting their numbers into an Excel sheet and using the add function shows there's a lot of flexibility they don't see to factor in.
    I like your way of thinking.

    We have so much flexibility. I’d hope PATFO has some indication of Lavines interest in San Antonio come draft day because that is when you want to start positioning your cap for the offseason.

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