Report: Hawks Trying to Move Into Lottery; John Collins a Candidate to be Moved

[MannyIsGod]

I'm good either way, but the chances of #9 being better than Collins aren't good.

[objective]

We found and traded for a difference maker at 15. NO ONE saw what he would become. You just have to keep drafting, and you’ll hit a bullseye. You don’t dump everyone over 23, but you do cycle them off as you bring new talent on board.

People complain about the treadmill. John Collins IS the treadmill. LaVine IS the treadmill. You hate our own picks now at 9-12? Wait until our own pick is 15-18. That’s the treadmill.

Meh

For all we know Collins could become the difference maker away from Trae, he's made big improvements over the years. For all we know the difference between Dejounte being a fake replacement all-star and a superstar is having a vertical threat to open up his game to the next level.

You complain about picking 15 being the treadmill while at the same time pointing out Kawhi was picked 15.

There will always be outliers in the draft picked 15 or lower, second round or lower. You can get the next Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, Jokic, etc etc just as much everyone else while being a 'treadmill' team.

[Chinook]

There are more than one way to be a treadmill team. 9-12 and 15-18 are both treadmill teams, but if you get to the latter point while having all of your picks and a bunch of young players, you can make the all-in move to take that leap into contention. If you're at the former point, you're two or three moves short. Unless you still believe that bad teams can draft superstars and reliably keep them in the modern NBA, there's no question that it's better to be a mediocre team that makes the playoffs every year than a mediocre team that doesn't.

I'm a huge fan of cycling prospects, but that's not an indefinite solution for the Spurs' problems. Murray's on a timer, and while I'm not against cashing out on him at all, there's no reason to believe the Spurs will draft another All-Star any time soon. They'd be yet another big move short of making noise. They can always tear down and collect assets. Memphis showed that. Houston shows that. The team isn't losing anything if they decide to go for it a bit. They don't lose their ability to draft and "take shots". They just lose the incentive to draft raw guys and go for home runs rather than guys who can help them as a floor. Leonard was a win-now player who became a superstar. Butler is similar. Davis, Eason or even Obaji could follow suit.

[exstatic]

Meh

For all we know Collins could become the difference maker away from Trae, he's made big improvements over the years. For all we know the difference between Dejounte being a fake replacement all-star and a superstar is having a vertical threat to open up his game to the next level.

You complain about picking 15 being the treadmill while at the same time pointing out Kawhi was picked 15.

There will always be outliers in the draft picked 15 or lower, second round or lower. You can get the next Kawhi, Giannis, Butler, Jokic, etc etc just as much everyone else while being a 'treadmill' team.

Collins was in Atlanta for two years before Trae, put up even better numbers including a legit no rounding 20/10 season, and they did even make the playoffs.

Outliers are called that for a reason. You’re much more likely to “hit” even in the late lottery than outside of it. If you keep your cap sheet relatively clean, you can do what we’re doing this year, have that late lottery pick AND some fliers, but not if you clog your cap with mid players, AND give up assets to acquire them.

[CGD]

There are more than one way to be a treadmill team. 9-12 and 15-18 are both treadmill teams, but if you get to the latter point while having all of your picks and a bunch of young players, you can make the all-in move to take that leap into contention. If you're at the former point, you're two or three moves short. Unless you still believe that bad teams can draft superstars and reliably keep them in the modern NBA, there's no question that it's better to be a mediocre team that makes the playoffs every year than a mediocre team that doesn't.

I'm a huge fan of cycling prospects, but that's not an indefinite solution for the Spurs' problems. Murray's on a timer, and while I'm not against cashing out on him at all, there's no reason to believe the Spurs will draft another All-Star any time soon. They'd be yet another big move short of making noise. They can always tear down and collect assets. Memphis showed that. Houston shows that. The team isn't losing anything if they decide to go for it a bit. They don't lose their ability to draft and "take shots". They just lose the incentive to draft raw guys and go for home runs rather than guys who can help them as a floor. Leonard was a win-now player who became a superstar. Butler is similar. Davis, Eason or even Obaji could follow suit.

This is why I think the spurs won’t be able to help themselves when it comes to Ayton.

[Chinook]

This is why I think the spurs won’t be able to help themselves when it comes to Ayton.

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

[John B]

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

I mean if they have Sochan who is a great help defender, Poeltl could work. And we all hope that Devin would make that great leap because the Spurs are in dire need of an offensive power, and Keldon can magically gets lateral lateral to cover faster SF. Man this makes me think of Spurs rolling with the same guys another year is making me sad

[Chinook]

I mean if they have Sochan who is a great help defender, Poeltl could work. And we all hope that Devin would make that great leap because the Spurs are in dire need of an offensive power, and Keldon can magically gets lateral lateral to cover faster SF. Man this makes me think of Spurs rolling with the same guys another year is making me sad

Nothing about our random speculation would make me conclude anything. I think, though, that the Spurs aren't likely to address their true top need (a featured scorer) in the draft. That was much more likely to happen in free agency. I do think getting a forward who can "unlock" Keldon is a possible path forward. He's a negative player right now because of his defense, but I do believe in his scoring potential. Sochan, Eason and maybe even LaRavia could help hide Johnson to allow his strengths to show more easily.

I don't favor the Spurs basically running it back. I'm much more in favor of them aggressively acquiring two players who can be part of a playoff core. I've talked about Lavine, Sexton, Oladipo, John Collins, Jerami Grant, even Julius Randle. Balancing out aggressive moves with solid role-players in the draft is fine. I wouldn't like to see basically the same roster plus four more picks though.

Murray, Jones, A Williams
Primo, Walker, Agbaji, Stewart
Vassell, McDermott, Wieskamp Woodard
Johnson, LaRavia, KBD Landale
Poeltl, Collins, Duren, Ca

That would be a pretty cluttered roster. It wouldn't be untenable, but I'd hope for at least one big trade to get rid of the chaff.

[John B]

Nothing about our random speculation would make me conclude anything. I think, though, that the Spurs aren't likely to address their true top need (a featured scorer) in the draft. That was much more likely to happen in free agency. I do think getting a forward who can "unlock" Keldon is a possible path forward. He's a negative player right now because of his defense, but I do believe in his scoring potential. Sochan, Eason and maybe even LaRavia could help hide Johnson to allow his strengths to show more easily.

I don't favor the Spurs basically running it back. I'm much more in favor of them aggressively acquiring two players who can be part of a playoff core. I've talked about Lavine, Sexton, Oladipo, John Collins, Jerami Grant, even Julius Randle. Balancing out aggressive moves with solid role-players in the draft is fine. I wouldn't like to see basically the same roster plus four more picks though.

Murray, Jones, A Williams
Primo, Walker, Agbaji, Stewart
Vassell, McDermott, Wieskamp Woodard
Johnson, LaRavia, KBD Landale
Poeltl, Collins, Duren, Ca

That would be a pretty cluttered roster. It wouldn't be untenable, but I'd hope for at least one big trade to get rid of the chaff.

One look and seeing Keldon at PF makes me sad. That’s like getting sweaters for Christmas

If there’s anything these ST es agree on, is not to see Keldon at PF with Poeltl. That’s just wrong

[Kevin]

So from what I've gathered in this thread and others is that only elite players and prospects with no injury history are worth acquiring. Everyone else is an unadvisable addition because they're treadmill acquisitions.

Spurs shouldn't max out LaVine because of injury history or Ayton because of his scoring limitations. Realistically what do people want? The Spurs didn't win the lottery and aren't adding an elite prospect for free. If you want to add proven talent like LaVine and Ayton its going to be risky. You want to move into the top 4 its going to cost Keldon and next years first with limited protection. If you want to stay put at the 9 whoever will be available will have limitations.

[Mr. Body]

Collins, Grant, Sexton have to be the least impressive available players I've ever seen. There's a reason these teams are trying to dump them.

[objective]

I'd much prefer Collins over Ayton. Ayton might be better overall, but they will both cost a fair amount, but the gap between Poeltl and Ayton is smaller than that of McDermott or Johnson at PF compared to Collins. Plus Ayton will probably cost an extra 10 million or so per year.

They both are a risk for getting suspended for juicing, so can't hold it against either one

[poopbox]

I think if they trade Poeltl during the draft, they'll make on offer on Ayton. But I think they like Jakob enough to where they won't feel the need to aggressively pursue a starting center.

They like the fact his salary is 9 million dollars.

If Ayton told the spurs he would sign with them tomorrow then Poeltl would be traded before midnight. Going from Poeltl to Ayton at center is about as big of a semi realistic upgrade we can make on this team.

[Dverde]

10756385[/URL]]They like the fact his salary is 9 million dollars.

If Ayton told the spurs he would sign with them tomorrow then Poeltl would be traded before midnight. Going from Poeltl to Ayton at center is about as big of a semi realistic upgrade we can make on this team.

Ayton is restricted so he can’t just decide to play for us. As others have mentioned, if this guy can’t play for Monty, Spurs are not going to max contract him. Suns are going to keep him or want assets back in a sign and trade.

[scott]

So from what I've gathered in this thread and others is that only elite players and prospects with no injury history are worth acquiring. Everyone else is an unadvisable addition because they're treadmill acquisitions.

Spurs shouldn't max out LaVine because of injury history or Ayton because of his scoring limitations. Realistically what do people want? The Spurs didn't win the lottery and aren't adding an elite prospect for free. If you want to add proven talent like LaVine and Ayton its going to be risky. You want to move into the top 4 its going to cost Keldon and next years first with limited protection. If you want to stay put at the 9 whoever will be available will have limitations.

Welcome to ST, where no player is good enough, especially not our own (but not anyone else either)

[rjv]

Welcome to ST, where no player is good enough, especially not our own (but not anyone else either)

, even some of our hall of fame players and coach haven't been good enough.

[SAGirl]

This rumor feels like Atlanta trying to angle for a trade with Portland.

[Ignazzz]

7th is better then 9th

[BatManu20]

[KingKev]

They can have McDougal, Langford and 20 or 25. Nothing more.

[DPG21920]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

[Dverde]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

I think if the Spurs gave up #9 the deal would be done. I think Spurs are definitely offer #20 and maybe #25 with it. Not a big John Collins fan, so I hope they don’t offer up to much for him. I think they’ll do it for #20 if they don’t get a better offer. Richardson is a solid addition and he’s expiring.

[CGD]

Set aside Portland, who else are his rumored suitors?

[Leetonidas]

Supposedly the Hawks and Kings are discussing a Collins trade that does not include the 4th pick

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should definitely try to get Collins. Hes young enough, established enough and helps move the team forward talent wise and position of need. SA has cap space they need to use before it dries up and if they want to move the timeline up a little this is a low risk deal as he can be moved later if need be.

It should not take “much” to get him. McDermott + Richardson + 9 for Collins + 16

If you can keep 9 and get him still? Even more no brainer.

I doubt the Spurs would give up 9. Poeltl is the valuable trade piece. That‘s why I‘d rather go after OG. Teams like the Kings and the Blazers will probably offer more, but then again what do they have to offer. I‘m all for getting Collins, but can‘t see the Spurs putting together a good enough package