if you're really saying that damp and diop were better defenders than draymond, or that the mavericks had anywhere near as good of a defensive scheme as the warriors, you're nuts
sure draymond is shorter, but the warriors defensive scheme does such a phenomenal job of overcoming his size and making ball movement difficult, and draymond does a very good job of using his hands and strength to bother post-up players until the help defense does their job. looney does a solid job of making people work as well, to buy time for the help. the warriors have maybe the best help defense schemes ive ever seen, its incredible how well they study teams, their tendencies, and adjust so quickly to counter adjustments.
not saying the warriors would win such a series, but just that when people look at everything in terms of individual matchups, thats a very narrowminded way to view it. id venture to say that if the warriors wanted to drastically reduce duncans stats, they absolutely could. the thing that made the spurs great was they had a great coach and great cast of players that could step in when one player was being targeted heavily. in that series against dallas, the mavs were mostly focused on limiting parker, and did so very well, but as a result they still nearly lost the series because guys like timmy and manu took great advantage of the extra attention given to tony.
again, not so simple, especially when they could just put steph on bruce and let wiggins focus on parker. parker never had the jumpshot to demand switches off picks, so they can involve steph in all the pick action they want, the warriors could just go under everything and force parker to play against tougher defenders. thats pretty much what the mavs did in 06 and tony was terrible in that series.
I don't see Duncan struggling against Draymond. The guy that gave Duncan the most problems in his prime defensively against was Rasheed Wallace. Rasheed was tall, long and lanky and quick. Draymond doesn't have any of those physical tools other than having long arms but Duncan still has the height and great strength to counter in the post.
Duncan also had great strength and great footwork to counter whatever Draymond would try to do. So, I don't see how Draymond would be able to muscle him like he's able to do to other guys. During the '14-'15 season there was a game between the Warriors and Spurs where it was there last meeting of the year. I remember that game because Duncan had a few post up plays where he literally backed down Draymond in the post and moved him all the way underneath the basket with ease for easy buckets.
They're probably the worst since at least the late 70's.
Maybe so, but '07 was the big 3 as close to a collective peak as they got. That team was better than at least the '03 team.
Yeah, the whole strong but undersized defender who can get up under and root out type didn't work on Duncan because of his sturdy base. He'd have destroyed Looney and Green, while putting them in foul trouble with no third option to defend him.
Curry would hide on Bowen while Wiggins chased Parker.
Agreed and Klay/Poole would have had their hands full with Manu.
Poole would be hid on Bowen/Finley/Barry, while Wiggins/Thompson/Payton II serve as the Ginobili defenders.
If Wiggins is guarding Manu then who guards Parker?
I don't mean simultaneously obviously, I just mean he'd be one of the options.
Lol Draymond being effective against Duncan. Duncan went up against the Wallace brothers, Garnett, Horry, pedo and held his own.
He went up against one of the best defensive teams ever in the pistons on two bum ankles and came out on top.
People have such crazy recency bias. In 10 years the same people would say they knew a guy in the local Y who can outshoot curry.
Duncan also had great strength and great footwork to counter whatever Draymond would try to do. So, I don't see how Draymond would be able to muscle him like he's able to do to other guys. During the '14-'15 season there was a game between the Warriors and Spurs where it was there last meeting of the year. I remember that game because Duncan had a few post up plays where he literally backed down Draymond in the post and moved him all the way underneath the basket with ease for easy buckets.[/QUOTE]
no one said he would struggle one on one. but to think draymond cant make him work until help comes seems ridiculous, as does thinking the warriors would just let him go 1-on-1 all game every game with no help
and anyone who watches the warriors knows they hide defensive schemes until the playoffs. every year luka completely dominates draymond in the post with ease during the regular season. suddenly in the playoffs he was seeing looks from them he hadnt seen before to force it out of his hands. had mavs role players been hitting their open 3s the series could have been very different, but either way, they schemed very well to not allow luka to just bully anyone in the post the way he normally does, and even taking away his usual reads, forcing them to adjust their rotations on offense.
lol inability to read
Luka is a perimeter player Duncan is a big man. Those are 2 different types of players. Plus, Duncan is physically a lot stronger than Luka and taller. I don't see any scenario where Draymond is going to be able to keep Duncan from going into the post or being able to make him work to get position. On single coverage Duncan is getting whatever he wants against him. If he doubles Duncan is a great passer out of the post and knows how to find the open man or readjust by making a pass and then getting the ball back for positioning which I saw him do a lot throughout his career.
I don't see Duncan struggling with the Warriors double and triple teams. He had series where he averaged around 30 against the Lakers despite facing constant doubles and triples from Horry, Shaq, Kobe. A combination of Looney, Draymond, Wiggins is physically a lot smaller than the Lakers trio he used to have to go up against every time he caught the ball in the post.
The only guy I have seen successfully guard Duncan in his prime and make it hard for him is Rasheed Wallace but like I said earlier Draymond doesn't have any of the physical tools Rasheed had.
You can say I'm biased and I don't respect Draymond but Draymond's biggest advantage in this era is that he's allowed to play 90's- mid '00s defense without the refs calling fouls on him while other guys are not allowed to do the same. This in return throws guys off when they face him in the playoffs because they are not used to having to deal with that type of physicality and the refs not blowing the whistle. Duncan on the other hand dealt with that type of physicality on a nightly basis and knew how to adjust and deal with it. Duncan would have 50 counters on the offensive end for every dirty tactic Draymond would pull.
Can’t counter and going to nitpick on three words you mentioned inpage 2 of a 976 post thread again?
the point wasnt the size of the player, it was the schemes they do. single coverage, luka literally can do everything you just mentioned duncan would do. but again, its not as simple as a quick pass out and back in. luka a lot of times like to do the exact same thing, but the warriors would consistently take those passes away and force cross court passes to where a re-entry pass was not a possibility. the do an amazing job of wasting an extra 5-8 seconds of their opponents time trying to get a better shot, resulting in more rushed late clock shots, and the offense generally not being able to get in their comfort zone
not a good comparison, completely differently built teams and styles of defense, not to mention during an era where zone defense was banned. the vast majority of what the warriors do defensively would have been illegal before zone defense was allowed.
not sure how many more times it has to be said, its not a matter of going one-on-one for full possessions
i dont think its a matter of bias (except the 50 counters thing, he certainly has plenty, but if he was THAT unstoppable i think the spurs would have actually repeated once or twice). i too think duncan can handle it, but to think the warriors wouldnt be able to make him work, or perhaps throw the spurs offense some curveballs that throws them out of sync would really be selling them short. they were the #1 defense in the NBA all season, and were even more impressive in the playoffs when they were finally at full strength. they deserve more credit and recognition than they are getting.
side note, fwiw I personally think Duncan is a top 5 player of all time, and the only players I would build around before him are mike and bron
Last edited by Neo.; 06-19-2022 at 08:50 PM.
Spurs would have the discipline to stick with the Warriors. It would be an interesting matchup for sure.
You think it makes it looks smart but it actually makes you look like a re ed loser. Just trying to be nice and let you know.
Oh my who will Duncan find to pass it to on that Spurs team?
With that ferocthiathce Warriorthce defensth.
that warriors defense has now won 4 championships in 6 finals. they must be doing something right.
cool story bro
keep obsessing over kobe and crying about drob not getting credit he doesn't deserve
Wiggins would lock down Manu easily. Manu's throat would be sore by the time Wiggins was done having his way with him.
As in sliced from his uncut nails? Luka got carved up.
Off the top of my head surprised no one mention but recent Raptors?
Whenever one player goes full Alpha and carries - 2011 Dirk
Brings me to 1995 Hakeem
Maybe I'm being too Pro big market. Some of those les and memories melt into one. Kobe's final le Game 7 win, comeback against depleted Celtics. Arguably worst all over shooting Finals game ever. Comes to mind.
1998 Bulls. "Is Rodman still in Vegas?". Damn those times were fun. Flirting so close with disaster.
Every western team this year was weaker. Every eastern team too it seems.
I think teams that rule the roost for a time can raise the bar themselves, then they get compared to the new level they created. Look at the Bucks. Those dudes were lucky as last year. Not lucky in terms of flukey shooting but their path avoided the best players in the league. They had to beat Devin Booker and Chris Paul. That has to be the weakest Finals I ever saw that didn't happen in 2007.
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