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  1. #2526
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    There's a real risk the new ownership group is going to try to cut costs as much as possible, especially while the team is tanking. We might see some real penny-pinching . The signs are certainly there. This is why I freaked out so much about the Chriss trade a while ago. It's a sign the ownership might be looking to sacrifice investment in their product for short-term gains, which is basically the MO of hedge funds and a lot of VC firms.
    Absolutely, and why there is a real risk the Spurs might do the least valuable thing with their cap space and simply not use it. The $12MM ownership would save might actually be more valuable to them than adding assets.

  2. #2527
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    You think this is cost cutting?

    https://www.ksat.com/sports/2021/08/...n-far-nw-side/

    Now go ahead and blather “yeah but” all you want. Feel free.





    No, the signs are not there.

    The reason you freaked out about the Chriss trade is because there are times you get carried away for no sane reason.

    Do you really - really - think Pop made a conference call to the team owners to find out if he was allowed to get some free money for the team?
    It is entirely possible for an organization to cut costs in one area while simultaneously making investments in others.

    In this case, it is entirely possible for the Spurs to be extremely cost conscious with their Basketball Product while still making a prudent Real Estate investment. And face it, this "Human Performance Complex" is just that - a real estate investment. People want to point to it as some indication that it locks the Spurs into San Antonio forever, but it does nothing of the sort. If the Spurs move, which they might, their real estate investment doesn't instantly become worthless. It is still a smart development in a valuable part of a large (and growing) city.

    Cost cutting in one area while making investments in others are by no means mutually exclusive, it's just prudent strategic business management.

  3. #2528
    Veteran The Truth #6's Avatar
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    AD is overrated for what he has actually delivered. He's not a leader. He's injured easily. The way he bailed on NO was really weak. He's nowhere near Tim Duncan or the all time greats. He had one good run, otherwise it's not crazy to say he was good stats/bad team. Whether or not LMA is properly rated is a separate conversation. I'm biased against AD so I'm probably cherry picking, but I just don't see it with him. Tangent: Maybe it's something in the Mississippi River water, because Zion looks to be another flaky disappointment as well. NO should be looking to sell on Zion when/if he plays again. No way is he sticking around there.

  4. #2529
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Not this stupid again.

    it isn’t just real estate. It’s being designed as one of the top athletic centers in the world for professional sports, with the Spurs in mind. To think the Spurs FO would put their blood, sweat, and tears into planning a state of the art facility and let it just get rented by whom? There aren’t other athletes from other cities who are going to flock to this center to make that investment worthwhile. It’s intended to be used for the growing developmental program the Spurs are invested in as evidenced by their full belief in the gleague. This is just another step for that. They obviously put a lot of stock in in-house care and training for their players.

  5. #2530
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Not this stupid again.

    it isn’t just real estate. It’s being designed as one of the top athletic centers in the world for professional sports, with the Spurs in mind. To think the Spurs FO would put their blood, sweat, and tears into planning a state of the art facility and let it just get rented by whom? There aren’t other athletes from other cities who are going to flock to this center to make that investment worthwhile. It’s intended to be used for the growing developmental program the Spurs are invested in as evidenced by their full belief in the gleague. This is just another step for that. They obviously put a lot of stock in in-house care and training for their players.
    Read what the facility is in more detail. It is not a $500 million facility to care for 15 people. Yes, those 15 people will get great benefit from it - but it does not need those 15 people for it to be a viable facility. If you think otherwise, you’re a naive fool. Even the world’s best sports surgeon’s don’t make their living exclusively off professional athletes. The Spurs aren’t going to have 1700 professionals in a facility to look after 15 people.

    Professional sports teams are in the real estate development business these days. The Star in Frisco and SOFI Stadium are great examples of real estate developments anchored around a professional sports facility - but they don’t exist solely to cater to the team. A practice facility is easily redeveloped into something else, and the rest of the center won’t cease to be viable because it has 15 fewer clients.

  6. #2531
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    And to add on to that… it’s not even going to be fully funded or owned by SSE… it’s coming from “private investors”. Those investors aren’t investing in the Spurs, they are investing in a real estate development.

    By no means does this mean the Spurs are leaving, but this facility also doesn’t mean they are staying. And it definitely doesn’t mean they might not be cutting costs on their basketball product, which was the original point.

  7. #2532
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You think this is cost cutting?

    https://www.ksat.com/sports/2021/08/...n-far-nw-side/

    Now go ahead and blather “yeah but” all you want. Feel free.
    That's already been addressed.

    No, the signs are not there.
    Yes, the signs are there, from the Chriss trade, to the decision to eschew getting an asset back for Aldridge in lieu of taking the buyout, to the lack of summer-league investment, to their decision on what coaches to maintain, to their decision to take back the absolute minimum salary for Murray and then sitting on those savings. We don't know how those things will all play out. Hopefully the Spurs find a way to improve the team's long-term position using some of that salary space. But they have about $37 Million to spend to get to the salary floor right now, according to Spotrac. They can't pull the Hinkie move of taking big salaries later on in the year to save cash since the CBA closed that loophole. But whether they find a way to spend over that threshold and thus actually increase their expenses past the minimum remains to be seen.

    Another thing to look for going forward is how they treat X-9 and X-10 contracts and in general how much they spend on the Toros going forward. As the summer league suggested, the Spurs might not be making the developmental investment in their players you'd think a tanking team would. Even though they have a lot of young guys, the team should be looking to maximize their avenues for finding talent, and that means actively trying to collect potential NBA players through their program in Austin. Guys like Covington, Tate, Dort and Wood have made their marks on rebuilding teams, and the Spurs could do that if they invest and cycle. But they don't HAVE to spend that kind of money. There's almost certainly a salary expectation in the d-league, but there's way more variability to how much clubs can invest in their infrastructure and staffing. It's a potential area to be cheap, but we won't have a real sense in how they're doing in that regard until later on this year.

    The reason you freaked out about the Chriss trade is because there are times you get carried away for no sane reason.

    Do you really - really - think Pop made a conference call to the team owners to find out if he was allowed to get some free money for the team?
    Why do you think Pop made trade calls? He's not the GM and has never been since he became the coach. While Pop is consulted on moves, he's not the guy who does that dirty work. He's nominally the top decision-maker on the team, but the moves are a collective effort, with ownership also having a seat at the table.

    Anyways, the Chriss trade was startling because it was about then purely looking to save money, not cap, not flexibility against their budget. They liquidated basketball flexibility to give their ownership group some cash. It was abnormal and harkened back to the days of Red McCombs. The Holts are not poor, and their decision to be part of the big investment you mentioned shows that. That's why the defense of "They just got some cash to be able to afford to sign Dieng. What's the big deal?" was always wrong. They didn't need the cash -- they got back more than $7 Million against their budget from LMA. It wasn't a tactical financial decision by the team to maintain their budget. It was just a money grab. That wasn't something they had done in many years, and it was something to keep watch for in case it led to more decisions like that. Now we are starting to see more of those decisions come up. The canary is coughing. That doesn't mean the mine is going to blow up, but it does mean that we should be more cautious.

    Also, I'm not in on the whole moving to Vegas thing. Maybe it happens. Maybe it doesn't. I don't see the financial decisions the Spurs are making as tied to either outcome.

  8. #2533
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    this is the time of the year where ST morphs from Spurs Talk to Speculation Talk. I can't even imagine the amount of bandwidth that has been wasted on so many well thought out and articulated 'theories' that went nowhere. of course, anything is 'possible'. it's professional sports.

  9. #2534
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    this is the time of the year where ST morphs from Spurs Talk to Speculation Talk. I can't even imagine the amount of bandwidth that has been wasted on so many well thought out and articulated 'theories' that went nowhere. of course, anything is 'possible'. it's professional sports.
    Russ to the Spurs for an unprotected FRP is the 2021/22 Saric + FRP for Thad rumour that starts in July and goes till the trade deadline.

  10. #2535
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    Russ to the Spurs for an unprotected FRP is the 2021/22 Saric + FRP for Thad rumour that starts in July and goes till the trade deadline.
    bet on it.

  11. #2536
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    Sell, Baby, Sell!

  12. #2537
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Russ to the Spurs for an unprotected FRP is the 2021/22 Saric + FRP for Thad rumour that starts in July and goes till the trade deadline.
    It was actually Saric + Smith + SRP for Young which is why it didn't happen.

  13. #2538
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    It was actually Saric + Smith + SRP for Young which is why it didn't happen.
    Once Smith’s option was declined it was still Saric plus an FRP almost daily.

  14. #2539
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    Russ to the Spurs for an unprotected FRP is the 2021/22 Saric + FRP for Thad rumour that starts in July and goes till the trade deadline.
    I don't think that rumor will have legs like the Phoenix one. Once training camp starts, it will probably die. I don't see the point of playing most of the season with a misfit, old roster, just to remedy it late in the season when they're probably hot garbage in the standings. If LA doesn't pull the trigger before, or early in training camp, I think it's dead.

  15. #2540
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    Once Smith’s option was declined it was still Saric plus an FRP almost daily.
    That wouldn't work financially. Saric was $9.25M and Thad was $14.1M. I think most of it was Phoenix/ESPN sources, anyway.

  16. #2541
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I don't think that rumor will have legs like the Phoenix one. Once training camp starts, it will probably die. I don't see the point of playing most of the season with a misfit, old roster, just to remedy it late in the season when they're probably hot garbage in the standings. If LA doesn't pull the trigger before, or early in training camp, I think it's dead.
    I just watched Darvin Ham on All The Smoke and he had me believing they are going to try and make it work and I actually think he is going to have those guys being much more accountable.

    Russ really isn’t the problem if he can play a more contained role. Which I’ll concede is a big IF. AD is the bigger problem. Seldom mentally and physically prepared.

    Healthy Lakers will be a probable top 6 team in the West.

  17. #2542
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    It was actually Saric + Smith + SRP for Young which is why it didn't happen.
    At the time that looked like a bad deal for the Spurs but in hindsight getting Smith for Young would have been a pretty good deal. Oh well. Smith looked like a bust a year ago at this time anyway. Hindsight 2020.

  18. #2543
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    At the time that looked like a bad deal for the Spurs but in hindsight getting Smith for Young would have been a pretty good deal. Oh well. Smith looked like a bust a year ago at this time anyway. Hindsight 2020.
    Smith looked like a bust AND they didn't pick up his option, which made his contract radioactive since whoever held it at the end of the year could only pay him 4.7M and he would be unrestricted. Two years of Saric by itself is worth more than a SRP. He was out all last year, too.

  19. #2544
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Smith looked like a bust AND they didn't pick up his option, which made his contract radioactive since whoever held it at the end of the year could only pay him 4.7M and he would be unrestricted. Two years of Saric by itself is worth more than a SRP. He was out all last year, too.
    Which ended up being his market surprisingly.

  20. #2545
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    I remember LMA almost single handedly took the Spurs out the year before he came over. He was a beast in that series.

    I assume you mean in 2014 because the Spurs did not play Portland in 2015. And considering SA won that series handily 4-1 and LMA was held in check by Splitter and shot 41%...not really sure I'd call that almost "single handedly" taking out the Spurs at all

  21. #2546
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    I assume you mean in 2014 because the Spurs did not play Portland in 2015. And considering SA won that series handily 4-1 and LMA was held in check by Splitter and shot 41%...not really sure I'd call that almost "single handedly" taking out the Spurs at all
    But he did destroy Dwert the series before

  22. #2547
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    But he did destroy Dwert the series before
    Yeah. Aldridge had a ton of individual high points and is one of the top 10 players to ever don a Spurs uniform. I do think Davis has objectively better numbers. But qualitatively, Aldridge has had the better career outside of Davis' ring. He got Portland to the semis in 2014. He got the Spurs to the WCF in 2017. Trying to pretend those aren't his accomplishments is low.

  23. #2548
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    I mean they do. They don't get to override the wishes of the principle owners, but they certainly get a say in return for the "cash" they're providing for the rest of the owners. Moreover, you're assuming that the previous ownership coalition would be against the proposed changes, and I don't believe that at all. I believe they made this stake available to purchase in the first place because they were looking for a different model on how to run the business.
    Funds are capped at 30% ownership. They necessarily are minority owners so their say is limited. But you may be right about their being alignment of interests in generating "value" by slashing costs.

  24. #2549
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Funds are capped at 30% ownership. They necessarily are minority owners so their say is limited. But you may be right about their being alignment of interests in generating "value" by slashing costs.
    Where did you read funds can only hold 30% total?

  25. #2550
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    Spurs can't win without (enter random growth spurt kid who dunks in 9th grade here). They need to tank for this person.

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