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  1. #276
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Yeah, nobody is saying that Ayton is Jokic, Embiid, Davis, Towns, etc., but despite what various catch all metrics indicate, he's not Poeltl either.

    He's much more versatile (vertical spacer, who can post switches, with a passable and improving jumper and switch ability), is only going on 24 and has already proven he's matchup proof in the playoffs.

    For an organization that refuses to bottom out and can't attract stars in free agency (Aldridge was for family reasons + the chance to play for a perennial contender), this is a rare opportunity and one that shouldn't be passed up because he wants a % of the cap (25 as opposed to 20ish) which is negligible in roster building.
    I agree Ayton ain't Poeltl, but I also think he's much better defensively than the numbers suggest. They also seem to think that he won't further improve his game. A starting five of

    Murray/Vassell/Keldon/J. Collins/Ayton

    has not only no defensive holes (with Keldon being the only neutral defender), but this are also 5 players who can all give you 20 points per game and the oldest of them is DJ being 25. People need to think how good that line up might be 3 years down the line when everybody enters their prime, especially in a weak west where most of the star players are on the wrong side of 30.

    The bench would most likely be

    Jones/Branham/Primo/Sochan/Z. Collins with 3 players on rookie deals which saves a lot of cap space.

    Moving Poeltl, J-Rich, Langford and McDermott would free up another 40 million. Paying Keldon won't be a problem. Vassell's and DJ's extensions won't kick in until 2024. At that point Ayton and John Collins would have 2 years left on their contracts, so moving any of them in the future shouldn't be an issue either.

    With 2 years left on DJ's contract right now it makes sense for the Spurs to take on these deals and become more top heavy.

  2. #277
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    I'm warming up to the idea of Ayton-- not because I love him as a fit or as a major piece, though I think he's overall a solid net positive and surprisingly still only 23-- but because he can be an asset in a trade further on down the road if he doesn't work out. If a true #1 option/star becomes available in the next two or three years, a trade package of something like Ayton + KJ + FRP would be a pretty alluring offer to most teams. I'd say at this point to offer Ayton the max but not agree to a sign a trade involving Poeltl. Part of the advantage of signing Ayton would to then trade Poeltl available to upgrade in other areas.
    Exactly . . . but if Poeltl and a 1st of some sort aren't offered, the Suns will just match.

    They're not going to let an asset of this caliber go for free just because they don't want him at that max and it'd be awkward next season while they were stuck with him. In the meantime, there's other avenues to duck the tax and they'd have up until the trade deadline to do so.


    I agree with that...and if we are going to treadmill in the late lottery then maxing Ayton probably doesn't help or hurt that cause... if we want to really increase our chances at drafting that 'better' player then we have to trade away a few guys for more lottery balls in 23 when the top of the draft is incredibly deep. I think that's better than maxing ayton and hoping that one of our late lottery picks strikes gold.
    Sure, but there's never been an indication that they're prepared to do that. The Murray talk was probably so that they could attempt to parlay Collins and 9 into 4 to draft Ivey. I don't see them being as amendable to a package of random picks.

  3. #278
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    I agree Ayton ain't Poeltl, but I also think he's much better defensively than the numbers suggest. They also seem to think that he won't further improve his game. A starting five of

    Murray/Vassell/Keldon/J. Collins/Ayton

    has not only no defensive holes (with Keldon being the only neutral defender), but this are also 5 players who can all give you 20 points per game and the oldest of them is DJ being 25. People need to think how good that line up might be 3 years down the line when everybody enters their prime, especially in a weak west where most of the star players are on the wrong side of 30.

    The bench would most likely be

    Jones/Branham/Primo/Sochan/Z. Collins with 3 players on rookie deals which saves a lot of cap space.

    Moving Poeltl, J-Rich, Langford and McDermott would free up another 40 million. Paying Keldon won't be a problem. Vassell's and DJ's extensions won't kick in until 2024. At that point Ayton and John Collins would have 2 years left on their contracts, so moving any of them in the future shouldn't be an issue either.

    With 2 years left on DJ's contract right now it makes sense for the Spurs to take on these deals and become more top heavy.
    I prefer moving DJ and Jak for picks and making a run for a top 6 pick in this upcoming draft but, If were dead set on missing out on the top of this draft then your lineup is probably about as good as we can do..

  4. #279
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    Exactly . . . but if Poeltl and a 1st of some sort aren't offered, the Suns will just match.

    They're not going to let an asset of this caliber go for free just because they don't want him at that max and it'd be awkward next season while they were stuck with him. In the meantime, there's other avenues to duck the tax and they'd have up until the trade deadline to do so.




    Sure, but there's never been an indication that they're prepared to do that. The Murray talk was probably so that they could attempt to parlay Collins and 9 into 4 to draft Ivey. I don't see them being as amendable to a package of random picks.
    I can't argue that there's been no indication that they're prepared to do that...my argument is that I believe they should do that though. I think we'll know in a couple weeks for sure though if we're dead set on skipping this upcoming draft..

  5. #280
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I prefer moving DJ and Jak for picks and making a run for a top 6 pick in this upcoming draft but, If were dead set on missing out on the top of this draft then your lineup is probably about as good as we can do..
    I just don't see the reason to tank for another 5 years

  6. #281
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    It depends on how you define better. I think maxing Ayton makes us a perennial 7-10 seed.... I think there are several paths that are 'better' that are attainable ..
    I completely agree with this. Not interested in the Spurs becoming a perennial 7-10 seed. Object of the game is championships. Ayton may be a former #1 pick, but he's also the guy that quit on his team and his coach in Game 7. No thanks.

    Would be a panic move to give him a max. Spurs still wouldn't be adding a go-to scorer in clutch moments. He's not the guy.

    I think the path to future championships for the Spurs is dictated by next year's ping pong balls + whatever the GM does in the 2023 free agency period + ongoing development of the young guys. Meanwhile, this is a 'stand pat and develop' year, if all goes well.

  7. #282
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    I agree Ayton ain't Poeltl, but I also think he's much better defensively than the numbers suggest. They also seem to think that he won't further improve his game. A starting five of

    Murray/Vassell/Keldon/J. Collins/Ayton

    has not only no defensive holes (with Keldon being the only neutral defender).
    He is. The guy just anchored a small, unathletic Suns team to the 3rd best defense in the league.

    Collins is a neutral-worse defender and getting both isn't realistic.


    I can't argue that there's been no indication that they're prepared to do that...my argument is that I believe they should do that though. I think we'll know in a couple weeks for sure though if we're dead set on skipping this upcoming draft..
    I understand. I'm just saying, given that they're not, I don't see a better alternative.

  8. #283
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    I just don't see the reason to tank for another 5 years
    I don't think we've tanked the last 5 years....and going forward I would hope we'd only tank for next season...

  9. #284
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    I don't think we've tanked the last 5 years....and going forward I would hope we'd only tank for next season...
    Yeah, in fact, I think it could be argued that the losing has gone this long because we *haven't* tanked. I'm confident Pop will not tank this coming season either. But that's where this unwieldy, unbalanced roster kinda does the 'tanking' instead. So the guys can just 'play the right way', play to win, but in the end, there's not enough talent to create consistent mismatches at this point.

    I do think if the Spurs don't pick up a free agent or veteran that raises their win ceiling this summer, we're on the right path and -- again, depending on how well the '23 draft and free agency goes -- this could very likely be the last season of losing for a long while.

    The more we lose this season, the better our chances to move toward a championship path in the seasons to come. Just hope the GM doesn't panic this summer. Trust the process.

  10. #285
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Just like how OKC and HOU’s losing has gone this long because they haven’t tanked? Oh wait…

  11. #286
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    Our entire roster is yet to enter their primes, how many more picks do we need? It just creates a losing culture.

    I'm onboard with the Ayton and one of Collins or OG suggestions. Would instantly make us a playoff team and everyone in that lineup would still have a lot of room to improve.

    If you want another 5 years of tanking, watch Presti.

  12. #287
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I don't think we've tanked the last 5 years....and going forward I would hope we'd only tank for next season...
    and then start a bunch of 19 year olds to make the playoffs? They will need 4 years to get there

  13. #288
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    The more I think about it, Spurs should go all in on Ayton. Only 23 years old and has improved every year.

    A core of Ayton/Sochan/KJ/Dev/Dj is pretty sick! Plus Primo, Wesley, Branham

  14. #289
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    and then start a bunch of 19 year olds to make the playoffs? They will need 4 years to get there
    Yep...but if we strike gold with Wembanyama we have a championship window ahead...if we get top six were 2 years away from where we are now with more upside...I just think that's a calculated risk worth taking...

  15. #290
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    He is. The guy just anchored a small, unathletic Suns team to the 3rd best defense in the league.

    Collins is a neutral-worse defender and getting both isn't realistic.




    I understand. I'm just saying, given that they're not, I don't see a better alternative.
    I agree that it‘s unrealistic to get both, just saying it technically could be possible. I‘m good with one of Ayton, John Collins or OG. They at the top of my wishlist

  16. #291
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    I am for only two things go in all in for Ayton offer Max or trade some players and keep the kids in G League and hard tank and pray we get a top 3.

    Collins Sucks....................

  17. #292
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I prefer moving DJ and Jak for picks and making a run for a top 6 pick in this upcoming draft but, If were dead set on missing out on the top of this draft then your lineup is probably about as good as we can do..
    There is no reason to roll the dice to this magnitude. When you have something that solid and proven as those two you gotta respect that.

    DJ isn’t way out of the timeline and with him we’re only a good player away from the playoffs.

    Way too much invested in him, high production, defensive oriented and way too good of a contract. We’d be lucky to get that hood of a pg with a 3-6 picks.

    Poodle on the other hand is worth moving for something interesting. Way easier to replace.

  18. #293
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    If Ayton had problems with Monty and just wanted to play video games all night instead of getting sleep then I find it hard to believe that he and Pop would be a good match

  19. #294
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    Ayton obviously has some serious skills in the post, but Phoenix turned him into Capela.
    There were even some reports about CP not trusting him in key moments and he rarely got the ball unless he was wide open.

    Horribly misused.
    He's obviously not the next superstar big, but he can easily be a parennial all-star in the right system.

    As for tanking for #1, forget about it.
    Even if we trade away all the assets, we're not finishing below -tier teams.
    And even if somehow happens, nothing is guaranteed in the lottery.

  20. #295
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    There is no reason to roll the dice to this magnitude. When you have something that solid and proven as those two you gotta respect that.

    DJ isn’t way out of the timeline and with him we’re only a good player away from the playoffs.

    Way too much invested in him, high production, defensive oriented and way too good of a contract. We’d be lucky to get that hood of a pg with a 3-6 picks.

    Poodle on the other hand is worth moving for something interesting. Way easier to replace.
    With the talent that's in this draft I think it's worth the gamble...next years draft isn't like this year's draft it's much higher level guys in the top 6..

  21. #296
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    If Ayton had problems with Monty and just wanted to play video games all night instead of getting sleep then I find it hard to believe that he and Pop would be a good match
    And there it is.

  22. #297
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    If Ayton had problems with Monty and just wanted to play video games all night instead of getting sleep then I find it hard to believe that he and Pop would be a good match
    Pop ain’t gonna be here much longer tho, but I agree lol

  23. #298
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Watch the spurs still go after Colin Sexton after drafting two guards, watch it happen lol

  24. #299
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    With the talent that's in this draft I think it's worth the gamble...next years draft isn't like this year's draft it's much higher level guys in the top 6..
    when's the last time we had a top 6 pick?

  25. #300
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    when's the last time we had a top 6 pick?
    Tim

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