Dejounte Murray Trade Rumors: Will He Be Traded to the Atlanta Hawks?

[Chinook]

Yeah, you sometimes feel you'd have to always write in blue font... NO need to take everything too serioulsy or first degree. Most people I guess come as much for the fun of arguing, sometimes being sarcastic or caricaturing just for the sake of it, trying to feel like you're so smart and get it, drinking your coffee in front of your laptop...

Take any poster and over time, you'll find them posting everything and its opposite. I know I do and, like litterally ANY poster, I post a lot of crap and eventually here or there a couple things that make sense... Then eventually common sense triumphs...

"It's only Basketball"

ST is a great place because most of the disputes get resolved without the need for moderation. A place like RealGM makes their mods police the topics and manner of discussion, and the forum feels stilted because of it. Some legit terrible things have happened on the site, like posters being bullied off the forum or getting way to personal and trying to dox people and probably worse things that I can't remember. But we are able to have these conversations, butt heads, find common ground and laugh about it as we move on with our lives. I wouldn't say that it's innately unserious, though. Most of the time we talk about sports and that isn't real-life. But there have been personal things on here too. Most of them I won't bring up out of respect, but that recent thread about BillMc comes to mind. I don't think (or least hope it's not the case that) we all know each other in real life just because we talk here. But I do think we realize that we're all people (and one water fowl) and share at least a common interest in the Spurs and at least share a world that we all have to live in, so there's only so much emotion you can put into convincing someone your opinion on basketball is better than theirs.

I used to do a thread where we all posted our worst take of the year. Maybe we can bring one of those back after during that lull between the summer league and international play. I have plenty of bad takes in my posting history (which I can't even edit now), and my isn't any more fragrant than anyone else's. Not to mention I make a ton of typos that I used to be able to catch but now just have to live with.

[gospursgojas]

Taureen Price signs extension out of nowhere. Move to make salaries work? ��

[Chinook]

Taureen Price signs extension out of nowhere. Move to make salaries work? ��

Hmmm, you might be onto something. As far as I can tell, the Wolves have to wait until the new year to trade him now, but they are able to send him along with his 1-and-1 contract rather than having to give him a 1-and-2 contract in a sign-and-trade. That's more palatable for other teams. Also, it gives the Wolves immediate option value to trade him or keep him. If he had been a free agent, he'd be prevented from being traded until 12/15.

95. Can a player be given an extension and traded at the same time?

Similar to a sign-and-trade arrangement (see question number 92), a team may sign an eligible player to an extension (see question number 58) and immediately trade him to another team. Such an "extend-and-trade" is limited to three seasons, which include any seasons remaining on the player's current contract¹. The salary in the first season of the extension can have a 5% raise over the last season of the existing contract, and subsequent raises are limited to 5% of the salary in the first season of the extension. The 5% limit also applies to both likely and unlikely bonuses.A player cannot be traded in an extend-and-trade after the season (for example, on draft day) in the last season of his contract, or in any season that might be the last season due to an option or ETO.Since an extend-and-trade has greater limits than a regular extension (three seasons² and 5% raises vs. four seasons² and 8% raises) the rules restrict teams from extending and trading the player in separate transactions in order to cir vent these limits. If a team extends a player beyond the limits of an extend-and-trade (for example, if they sign a player to a four-year extension), they can't trade the player for six months. Conversely, a team cannot extend a player it receives in trade for six months, if the extension exceeds the limits of an extend-and-trade³.Extend-and-trade transactions are rare. To date they have only been used for Kevin Garnett (traded from Minnesota to Boston in 2007) and Carmelo Anthony (traded from Denver to New York in 2011).A rookie scale contract (see question number 47) can be extended and traded in an extend-and-trade transaction, although there is no benefit to doing so. A rookie scale extension can be signed immediately after the player is traded (such as with James Harden's trade to the Rockets in 2012), and a rookie scale extension (see question number 58) can be much larger than the extension allowed through an extend-and-trade.

---

1	The current season counts as one full year, even if the extension is signed as late as June 30. So if a contract is extended on June 30 with one full season remaining, only one new season can be added to the contract with an extend-and-trade.
2	Including the remaining seasons on the existing contract.
3	This does not apply to extensions of rookie scale contracts. For example, the Oklahoma City Thunder traded James Harden to the Houston Rockets on October 27, 2012, and the Rockets signed him to an extension four days later.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q92

[Chinook]

Not that it means Murray's involved, but this does feel like a deal that Minny is making to give themselves a chance to make a trade.

[RC_Drunkford]

Especially if the 2nd year is not fully guaranteed

[spurraider21]

can we lock this thread so we dont have 2 separate murray threads in addition to the general free agency threads?

[Chinook]

can we lock this thread so we dont have 2 separate murray threads in addition to the general free agency threads?

You know timvp is going to post a new article with its own thread soon.

[CGD]

Taureen Price signs extension out of nowhere. Move to make salaries work? ��

As an aside, I think this is what we should do with Jakob.

[Chinook]

As an aside, I think this is what we should do with Jakob.

Can't until like November. Then they can offer up to $50M/4. If the takes that, they wouldn't be able to trade him until after the season.

[spurraider21]

tbh

[objective]

I am, like,



So the rumors of the Toronto trade originally had the Spurs giving up the pick for Poeltl. Most of us thought that was absurd and completely wrote off the rumor in favor of the flashier ideas like Boston, Philly and LAC. It turns out, the rumor was wrong -- the pick went the other way -- but they were clearly on point about the talks. To say the Toronto trade was worse than the rumors is wrong. It was worse than the fantasy trades involving other teams (like both picks and Harris for Kawhi from LAC, Brown and Tatum and Boston, Simmons, Covington and 10 from Philly), and if you want to argue that the other packages that were actually rumored to be offered (12 and non-Harris filler, Covington and Saric, Deng, Ingram, Hart and a pick) that's another thing. But we aren't talking about every trade idea right now. We're talking about how to interpret the Atlanta rumor. Folks like you keep creating hypotheticals that aren't based in what is in the tweets, assuming that's what's being discussed and using that to create a strawman of what the front office is like to complain.



My opinion has better support. Yes, you can put your head in the sand and cry about you having a right to believe whatever. I don't give a . But if you're going to come into a forum and throw the point out there, it's going to get challenged, and complaining about you not being able to say whatever without being criticized is just whining.




He's raising his guaranteed to make the trade possible. That is good for the Spurs, because the Hawks could just guarantee the whole thing. That they're talking to him would suggest the Spurs would only take the minimum salary necessary, which is just better than taking an extra few million.

So yeah, this is why a lot of this is based on bad information and a bad-faith interpretation.



No, it's not. The rumor that Gallo is part of the trade doesn't say anything about three picks or picks being protected. That came from different rumors. You're talking "Collins plus three picks" plus "Hawks wanted to lottery protect the picks but the Spurs said no", plus "The new package includes Gallinari and picks" and creating "The Spurs are deciding whether to take a package of Gallinari and three protected picks". That doesn't make sense. There's zero reason to believe the Spurs are losing ground in the negotiation to where they went from Collins and three picks was enough to believing there's a risk of the Hawks getting him for bad salary and protected firsts. The only reason to believe they did that is that you believe the Spurs inherently cave on their trades and make bad deals. That's why actually looking at recent history and seeing that not bearing out matters.



I don't give a about the fun the edgies want to have. You don't become that way if you don't inherently like drama. There are tons of folks who don't agree with the way the Spurs go, and that typically manifests in them not -festing all over the site. We're not in prime edging territory where guys are making a million threads to complain, and I'm grateful. But there are people who legit think they're making serious contributions to the discussion (like you), and that's what I'm commenting on. I've been on this forum long enough to know the difference between trolling and bad takes.



Simultaneously trying argue "Let posters post how they want to" and "Stop posting like you want to" at the same time is ridiculous. People will post as they wish, I'll criticize when I see fit, and you can critique that criticism if you want to. That seems fair

Lol

You're more wrong than ever, but that's your deal.

Moving on

[Chinook]

Lol

You're more wrong than ever, but that's your deal.

Moving on

Yeah, because the best way to "move on" is to take a jab and run.

[DAF86]

Imho, trading Murray. I want to see how good this team can be next season with one more year of development of Murray, Keldon, Vassell and Poeltl and the additions of the new guys. I want to see the defensive lineup of Murray, Vassell, Sochan and Poeltl.

Also, Murray's numbers are likely to go up. I wouldn't put it past him to average around 25, 9 and 9, tbh. His stock is only going to get higher. If things don't go according to plan record wise, you can always trade Murray mid-season.

[slick'81]

Imho, trading Murray. I want to see how good this team can be next season with one more year of development of Murray, Keldon, Vassell and Poeltl and the additions of the new guys. I want to see the defensive lineup of Murray, Vassell, Sochan and Poeltl.

Also, Murray's numbers are likely to go up. I wouldn't put it past him to average around 25, 9 and 9, tbh. His stock is only going to get higher. If things don't go according to plan record wise, you can always trade Murray mid-season.

dont worry. Murray isnt going anywhere unless spurs get exactly what they want

[mo7888]

dont worry. Murray isnt going anywhere unless spurs get exactly what they want

Yep...

[RC_Drunkford]

Imho, trading Murray. I want to see how good this team can be next season with one more year of development of Murray, Keldon, Vassell and Poeltl and the additions of the new guys. I want to see the defensive lineup of Murray, Vassell, Sochan and Poeltl.

Also, Murray's numbers are likely to go up. I wouldn't put it past him to average around 25, 9 and 9, tbh. His stock is only going to get higher. If things don't go according to plan record wise, you can always trade Murray mid-season.

same here. Would you add any pieces in FA or via trade? Cause running it back ain't enough to me, they would have to at least bring in 1 starter

[objective]

Yeah, because the best way to "move on" is to take a jab and run.

What's the run? What's the jab?

We obviously think the other is wrong. It's EITHER keep on doing the back and forth with word counts going up and up in pedantic nonsense, or it ends. With both thinking the other is 100% wrong. You are wrong. Is that a jab? Should I just write, "Moving On"? Or nothing? You might think you had convinced me, so I want the record to be no agreement other than disagreement

I quoted you so you'd see that I think you're still wrong but this conversation can end, and given your last post you think I'm wrong. I seem to remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, you once getting bent out of shape for not quoting you in a thread you were posting in, that I just assumed you'd see. I think that was in the same argument where you accused me of lying about posting quickly in mobile because I was able to type out the characters that generated a laughing emoji. But it was as simple as adding a : to lol, or maybe before and after.

I don't remember what the Spurs related issue was that time.

So for you, I quoted you so you'd see, I think you're wrong, you've made it clear in 1000 words that you think I'm wrong, and I'm not interested in going forward with quotes back and forth when it will just be more of the same.

That's it

And if I'm remembering incorrectly anything to do with you and quotes or emojis, then I apologize

[DAF86]

same here. Would you add any pieces in FA or via trade? Cause running it back ain't enough to me, they would have to at least bring in 1 starter

Sure. They badly need to add three point shooting. But three point shooting that can help in other areas. No more Forbes or McDermotts.

[John B]

Imho, trading Murray. I want to see how good this team can be next season with one more year of development of Murray, Keldon, Vassell and Poeltl and the additions of the new guys. I want to see the defensive lineup of Murray, Vassell, Sochan and Poeltl.

Also, Murray's numbers are likely to go up. I wouldn't put it past him to average around 25, 9 and 9, tbh. His stock is only going to get higher. If things don't go according to plan record wise, you can always trade Murray mid-season.

I doubt DJ’s numbers are going to get higher, if you expect Vassell, Keldon, Poeltl and Primo to get better. There’s only so much possession and points to make. Plus by mid-season the only teams that would be betting his services are contenders who like to add a little help to boost them on the next level, hence low picks and relatively bad assets/trades returns. With also less teams competing, it lowers the bidding. IF the Spurs are moving DJ, right now is the best time when multiple teams are bidding for him and fresh from AS, steals leader, etc.

DJ would ask for Max contract in two years. And personally, I doubt his worth the Max contract, not for his flawed offensive game. He doesn’t attack the basket enough to earn him trips to the FT line. He doesn’t have a go-to move besides elbow shots that are easily defended on close games and playoffs. He is going to walk and by then his stocks would be so much less. I do not fault him to seek greener pasture. Hence the Spurs need to do what they have to do to get maximum return. It wasn’t too long ago that nephew left the Spurs with marginal return. I think the FO learned their lesson well.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sure. They badly need to add three point shooting. But three point shooting that can help in other areas. No more Forbes or McDermotts.

I got a trade for OG or John Collins and pursuing Ayton in FA at the top of my list. People seem to think John Collins is a bad player, but he's not. He's playing on a team that has to watch Trae Young handle the ball for most of the shotclock and then play traffic cone defense on the other end while they have to cover for him. Collins also doesn't get enough usage while being super efficient and is a good help defender and secondary rim protector. Him not having a market right now should make it very easy for us to get him for next to nothing since ATL just wants to salary dump him. When DJ is up for his extension Collins would have 2 years left on his deal and probably average better numbers on the Spurs than on the Hawks last season. They could easily trade him once Sochan is ready

[Chinook]

What's the run? What's the jab?

I don't have any issue with agreeing to disagree, and I'll just say here that I apologize if I misinterpreted what you meant.

you once getting bent out of shape for not quoting you in a thread you were posting in, that I just assumed you'd see.

I don't know about that. I could imagine a situation where I was annoyed that you expected me to take something you said as a direct reply to me without posting. I could also have been genuinely confused in a case where I missed something because of jumping between threads. It's not something that I remember, and I haven't held a grudge or whatever that incident.

You're a good poster, Obj. I don't always agree with you, but I appreciate how much effort you put into your analyses of players. I learn quite a bit from reading your scouting reports, or at least I gain some perspective. I truly do think you're one of the posters that make the forum as great as it is, along with guys like DeJounte and Drom and Ace and BM20 who do the yeoman's work of providing content for us to talk about. As far as I'm concerned, we don't have a beef. I apologize if I gave that impression. I'm not going to stop giving my opinion, including criticizing trends that I see in the forum. I also won't write shorter messages if I think longer ones are needed. But yeah, I fully acknowledge that you're allowed to have a different opinion, and past a certain point, I'm not going to try to change it.

[Chinook]

I think that was in the same argument where you accused me of lying about posting quickly in mobile because I was able to type out the characters that generated a laughing emoji.

Although I will say I have no idea what that could have been from.

[DesignatedT]

Signing Ayton and trading Poeltl for OG would make this team pretty exciting.

[DAF86]

I doubt DJ’s numbers are going to get higher, if you expect Vassell, Keldon, Poeltl and Primo to get better. There’s only so much possession and points to make. Plus by mid-season the only teams that would be betting his services are contenders who like to add a little help to boost them on the next level, hence low picks and relatively bad assets/trades returns. With also less teams competing, it lowers the bidding. IF the Spurs are moving DJ, right now is the best time when multiple teams are bidding for him and fresh from AS, steals leader, etc.

DJ would ask for Max contract in two years. And personally, I doubt his worth the Max contract, not for his flawed offensive game. He doesn’t attack the basket enough to earn him trips to the FT line. He doesn’t have a go-to move besides elbow shots that are easily defended on close games and playoffs. He is going to walk and by then his stocks would be so much less. I do not fault him to seek greener pasture. Hence the Spurs need to do what they have to do to get maximum return. It wasn’t too long ago that nephew left the Spurs with marginal return. I think the FO learned their lesson well.

DJ's numbers got higher in the second half of the season. It wouldn't be crazy to think he could replicate that. In fact, that's probably what's going to happen. Also, getting better doesn't necessarily mean scoring a lot more points. Vassell, for example, could get better by becoming an all-defense type player. Furthermore, there isn't such thing as "so much points to make", the Spurs could improve their scoring as a whole by everybody imrpoving a bit from the previous season.

The argument of the trade assets and biding decreasing mid-season is pretty off too, imho. The teams wanting to trade for Murray are likely going to be the about the same that want to trade for him now. And yeah, all of them will be teams with playoffs aspirations. The difference is that teams during the season might be more inclined in going all in and accepting to trade a couple of unprotected FRP down the road.

[RC_Drunkford]

Signing Ayton and trading Poeltl for OG would make this team pretty exciting.

that's why you can bet on it never happening I'm pretty sure it hasn't even crossed the Spurs' mind