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  1. #26
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    ayton is like those young bigs up for a payrise on their next contract... problem is todays league those type of big man play are extinct...why waste a max contract on a big who cant defend, rebound, spread the floor hit the open 18ft+ ....

    you can probably fill that center spot with some cheap player whose happy to be employed

  2. #27
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Sarver would be elated if Ayton did a max 2+1 right?
    Not sure. Thereís reports I sort of trust and reports that feel like propaganda.

    Some of the propaganda related to the 2 Rookie Extension limit for a team. So if Booker and Ayton have theirs, and the Suns wanted to make a play to acquire another player in a rookie extension, Suns would be limited in their ability to acquire said player without including Booker or Ayton. At the time last year Tatum & Celtics looked headed towards mediocrity, and Tatum was on record as saying he wanted the Suns to draft him in 2017, so it was the rumor du jour.

    The realistic is simply Sarver is cheap and wants to mitigate risk. Word is they offered a 3 year at MAX money, but this was never confirmed. Personally I thought Ayton should have taken a 2+1 (PO) deal to be a UFA sooner. That 2 years would have coincided with Paulís likely window, and then he hits UFA at age 25, setting himself up for 2 more nice paydays.

    But I understand pride and when MPJ is getting Max with a bad back, and Bam is getting a Max after a Finals run, you sort of expect the Market to determine rate and his rate was unquestioned Max Money for Max Years.

    What is especially ing hilarious is had the Suns signed Ayton to his Rookie Max Extension last year, they could simply trade him without Base Year Comp issues that his RFA will bring this offseason, which makes trading with Hard Capped clubs very difficult, and, just so happens that the Nets are a Hard Capped Team, so, Ayton for Durant (even with lots and lots of added talent and picks) is almost impossible within CAP constraints because only half of whatever a SnT deal is worth counts in the trade. So if Aytonís year one is 30 million, it only counts as 15 in the trade, but counts 100% vs Nets cap, making matching salaries a mother er.

    Serves their dumbasses right.

  3. #28
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    ayton is like those young bigs up for a payrise on their next contract... problem is todays league those type of big man play are extinct...why waste a max contract on a big who cant defend, rebound, spread the floor hit the open 18ft+ ....

    you can probably fill that center spot with some cheap player whose happy to be employed
    Ayton is 2nd to Gobert in Defensive Distance Covered, and is one of the best defensive Cs in the NBA, and defends a mul ude of ways. He rebounds plenty well enough.

    His defense and rebounding isn’t the concern.

  4. #29
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Since I can’t edit and add:

    And Ayton shoots over 45% from 15-20 feet on spot-up jumpers, and 42% overall from 16+

    He’s still developing this, but given in small samplings he shot 36% from range last season, and shoots 76% from FT, he has the touch you’re looking for with just a few tweaks to timing, footwork, anticipation, and added familiarity of being a perimeter shooter.

    More importantly, the 80% of his shots play to his strengths, where he shoots 80% 0-3, 59% 3-10, and 55% 10-16.

    If you’re telling me this can’t be weaponized, then clearly you ain’t the one I’m looking to chat with any longer.

  5. #30
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.

  6. #31
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.
    Even cheapie Sarver would go for that.

  7. #32
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    Not sure. Thereís reports I sort of trust and reports that feel like propaganda.

    Some of the propaganda related to the 2 Rookie Extension limit for a team. So if Booker and Ayton have theirs, and the Suns wanted to make a play to acquire another player in a rookie extension, Suns would be limited in their ability to acquire said player without including Booker or Ayton. At the time last year Tatum & Celtics looked headed towards mediocrity, and Tatum was on record as saying he wanted the Suns to draft him in 2017, so it was the rumor du jour.

    The realistic is simply Sarver is cheap and wants to mitigate risk. Word is they offered a 3 year at MAX money, but this was never confirmed. Personally I thought Ayton should have taken a 2+1 (PO) deal to be a UFA sooner. That 2 years would have coincided with Paulís likely window, and then he hits UFA at age 25, setting himself up for 2 more nice paydays.

    But I understand pride and when MPJ is getting Max with a bad back, and Bam is getting a Max after a Finals run, you sort of expect the Market to determine rate and his rate was unquestioned Max Money for Max Years.

    What is especially ing hilarious is had the Suns signed Ayton to his Rookie Max Extension last year, they could simply trade him without Base Year Comp issues that his RFA will bring this offseason, which makes trading with Hard Capped clubs very difficult, and, just so happens that the Nets are a Hard Capped Team, so, Ayton for Durant (even with lots and lots of added talent and picks) is almost impossible within CAP constraints because only half of whatever a SnT deal is worth counts in the trade. So if Aytonís year one is 30 million, it only counts as 15 in the trade, but counts 100% vs Nets cap, making matching salaries a mother er.

    Serves their dumbasses right.
    Insightful for us not close to the Suns situation.

    As Iíve only come to appreciate recently, the base year compensation situation really s things up here for those looking for a deal. I suspect that Jakob Poeltl being expiring isnít ideal at all for the Suns either, and unfortunately, as I understand it, we can extend and trade him to you all concurrently.

  8. #33
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Even cheapie Sarver would go for that.
    Two white guys and a pick he can sell for cash, Sarver all in, for sure.

  9. #34
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Insightful for us not close to the Suns situation.

    As I’ve only come to appreciate recently, the base year compensation situation really s things up here for those looking for a deal. I suspect that Jakob Poeltl being expiring isn’t ideal at all for the Suns either, and unfortunately, as I understand it, we can extend and trade him to you all concurrently.
    Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).

  10. #35
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Two white guys and a pick he can sell for cash, Sarver all in, for sure.
    FFS and Grandpa Pop and the Spurs are not all over this?

    Is Poodle another of Pops Pets?

  11. #36
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).
    It comes down to Monty Williams tbh. If he has bad things to say about Ayton, zero chance the Spurs are interested.

  12. #37
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    I'd do Poeltl, McDermott, and the Bulls' first for Ayton, but thats it tbh.
    That or Richardson instead of Doug if he wanted to get off $$ sooner. I *think* that works with the base comp rule.

    The other option is to send expiring (Romeo, Jock, Keita) to NYK for Nerlens and a FRP to help them open space for Brunson. Then use that NYK pick in addition (or instead of CHI pick).

  13. #38
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    Realistically, I got nothing more for the thread. I hoped some might have heard more from Spurs end given the Pops quote saying he’d offer Ayton the Max (which I’m not even sure is true, but I want to believe).
    I think it’s more that the Spurs are really in this limbo where they want to be compe ive but not really…

    They don’t want to tank but stopped being in denial about the need to rebuild finally. Based on what they have done recently they aren’t interested in win now players. They have only signed average or below average guys to plug holes and give some support to their guys so they don’t look as haphazard as the truly tanking teams.

    The Murray situation is interesting bc I think he needs a costar and the team will improve leading to him getting some recognition, as good players in good teams do, but OTOH many feel understandably that they are more than 1 piece away.

    I think the Spurs can offer Jakob, a piece like McDermott or Richardson and the Chicago first. I am really not the best person for trade machine deals.

  14. #39
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    Honestly, I mostly think the dude who is saying most of this is full of , but he does have a track record of being connected, correct in predictions (though not all), and I definitely think Pops would be good for Ayton.

    But, ultimately, I quit this . But I would be thrilled to see one of my former favorites land on his feet.

  15. #40
    Clever got me this far... JMarkJohns's Avatar
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    If you’re gonna bottom out for a few years, can you pleeeeeaaase bring in Ayton and develop him over those 3/4 years and then have a peak prime 26 YO C right when you’re ramping things up?

    If I wasn’t dead inside I’d delight in seeing you all circle the drain, but I’d much rather get Ayton with Pops.

  16. #41
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    What are the Durant rumours you mentioned earlier?

  17. #42
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    If you’re gonna bottom out for a few years, can you pleeeeeaaase bring in Ayton and develop him over those 3/4 years and then have a peak prime 26 YO C right when you’re ramping things up?

    If I wasn’t dead inside I’d delight in seeing you all circle the drain, but I’d much rather get Ayton with Pops.
    PHX management is in total drivers seat here, meanwhile we have no clue as outsides what strategy SAS management is pursuing: tank/rebuild or build around Murray. These are two vastly different futures, but only one makes sense for going after Ayton. I personally think throwing Ayton a max makes sense, but with all the Murray noise itís hard to tell what the is going on, lol

  18. #43
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    PHX management is in total drivers seat here, meanwhile we have no clue as outsides what strategy SAS management is pursuing: tank/rebuild or build around Murray. These are two vastly different futures, but only one makes sense for going after Ayton. I personally think throwing Ayton a max makes sense, but with all the Murray noise itís hard to tell what the is going on, lol
    I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

    I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...

  19. #44
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

    I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...
    Levine is a "real" #1 but Ayton is not?

    Regardless of what le is put on them, much rather build around Ayton and DJ then Levine and DJ.

  20. #45
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    Levine is a "real" #1 but Ayton is not?

    Regardless of what le is put on them, much rather build around Ayton and DJ then Levine and DJ.
    Lavine may not be a true #1 (I'll admit that) but he's much better than Ayton. Lavine improves our ceiling and Ayton doesn't.

  21. #46
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I think it's fairly clear...there preference has been to build around DJ with a real allstar type (not an Ayton unless it's after we bring in a real #1) but that hasn't materialized. If we see a path over the next 24 hours to get that guy (Lavine maybe) we take it and if it's not there we move DJ for picks.

    I think that's what they're doing.. I think that's the correct strategy too...
    if the Spurs want to build around Dejounte they will sign Jalen Smith and take on bad contracts. There won‘t be any significant trade or FA signing

  22. #47
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    if the Spurs want to build around Dejounte they will sign Jalen Smith and take on bad contracts. There wonĎt be any significant trade or FA signing
    I don't think that's a recipe for building anything... keeping DJ and taking on bad contracts is a recipe for being a 10th seed for the next few years and being capped out. If you're going to build around him you have to bring in a player that's better than he is. If you are unable to do that you're better off trading him.

    I prefer to bring in the better player to pair with him but, I can't see a path to doing that unless Chicago s around with Lavine tomorrow.

  23. #48
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I don't know why y'all think throwing a max on Ayton is a good idea. Dude has some talent but it's in the wrong areas and he has big character questions about whether he wants to compete and play. I think y'all just want big splashes for some reason. Hate to see you at a casino.

  24. #49
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I don't think that's a recipe for building anything... keeping DJ and taking on bad contracts is a recipe for being a 10th seed for the next few years and being capped out. If you're going to build around him you have to bring in a player that's better than he is. If you are unable to do that you're better off trading him.

    I prefer to bring in the better player to pair with him but, I can't see a path to doing that unless Chicago s around with Lavine tomorrow.
    which is exactly why they will do that. The Spurs don’t pick a direction, they do the same thing over and over because they are penny pinching and held hostage by an 80-year old chasing his records.

  25. #50
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    which is exactly why they will do that. The Spurs don’t pick a direction, they do the same thing over and over because they are penny pinching and held hostage by an 80-year old chasing his records.
    Gotcha...well, I'm hoping you're wrong and I've got some some belief that they are about to pick a direction but, I have to admit, recent history is on your side here...and I can't sufficiently argue with a conclusion based on that history..

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