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  1. #876
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Where does the idea that Sochan is a bad defender come from?
    from his actual performance as opposed to the draft analysis

    he simply hasn't been good. he hasnt had that same impact that kawhi used to, who would be an off-ball menace that the other team always had to be conscious of when throwing a pass anywhere near him. his man to man defense has also been unremarkable. he hasnt given anybody any particular trouble in those spots, imo

    the only encouraging thing so far is that on a game to game basis he is being thrown into a lot of different positions. from playing against more traditional 4's, and sometimes being asked to guard point guards. the versatility is cool and a positive sign, but the actual results just havent been there

    his offense has come farther along than i had anticipated... but we were all kind of expecting him to be a defensive ace, where any offensive development would be a welcome bonus. instead right now his biggest impact is on offense, which imo doesnt bode particularly well since im not sure he is big enough or a good enough athlete to really be a primary offensive force. we need him to be that defensive ace

  2. #877
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    for what its worth its the same concern i have with Vassell. his draft profile was basically 3 & D with some more sneaky offensive upside. this year when on the court his offense has been pretty incredible. the scoring is way up, but has also had good efficiency despite the volume. and much more so than keldon, he's proven do be an improving playmaker for others (3.6 assists per game is nothing to sneeze at from a wing, especially in his first season as a starter with a more go-to role).

    but he also has not performed well on defense this year. our starting lineup right now includes 4 guys who were billed as "defensive minded" players, between Tre, Vassell, Sochan, and Jak. but our team defense has been abysmal. its definitely something to be concerned about

  3. #878
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    Yeah, I always thought Vassell was going to be a shut down type of guy on defense but it has not showed I am always wanting to see him go after rebounds harder then he does. As far as Sochan I was not sold on his defense well I thought he will be a very good team defender but he is not the shot blocking PF I have always wanted. But his offense like Vassell has kinda surprised me at this point only gripe is the same as Vassell and that is Rebounding.

    But at this point just draft best player until we hit gold then at that point think about what talent he needs around him

  4. #879
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    his man to man defense has also been unremarkable. he hasnt given anybody any particular trouble in those spots, imo

  5. #880
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    Defense is over rated. You need great offensive players and shooting. NBA players are too strong offensively and can score on anyone.

    It's too easy to score in the NBA. This isn't the NFL where you can build a winner on defense. And even in the NFL a strong offensive team can take down a top defensive team with limited offensive players. Spurs need to target strong offensive players.

    Need to build around offense not defense.

  6. #881
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    Sochan is overrated here. Guys score and shoot right over him. He doesn't have the best vertical lift and is not a good rebounder.

  7. #882
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    Defense is over rated.
    Raptors 2019 top-5 DRtg
    Lakers 2020 top-3 DRtg
    Bucks 2021 top-10 DRtg
    Warriors 2022 top-1 DRtg

    You need great offensive players and shooting.
    Shaedon Sharpe doesn't fit that description.

  8. #883
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    Raptors 2019 top-5 DRtg
    Lakers 2020 top-3 DRtg
    Bucks 2021 top-10 DRtg
    Warriors 2022 top-1 DRtg


    Shaedon Sharpe doesn't fit that description.
    He sure does. Will only get better. Sharpe is a future superstar. Sharpe has a much more exciting game than Sochan.

  9. #884
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    He sure does. Will only get better. Sharpe is a future superstar. Sharpe has a much more exciting game than Sochan.
    Euroleague superstar?

  10. #885
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Man that’ awful defense on Lillard there. He’s suppose to let him pass and try to chase block him. But nooo, he makes Lillard shoot 3pt over him, which we all know would make highlight reels if they go in. Terrible defense

  11. #886
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Sochan will be fine or even better than fine as a defender. For some reason the team has completely stopped defending or taking it seriously. Maybe Pop just wants to develop players offensively. Makes sense given their needs. On a better team Sochan's abilities on that side will be more evident.

  12. #887
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Sochan will be fine or even better than fine as a defender. For some reason the team has completely stopped defending or taking it seriously. Maybe Pop just wants to develop players offensively. Makes sense given their needs. On a better team Sochan's abilities on that side will be more evident.
    Agree. That’s why I only focus on first half. That’s where you see Spurs hang with their opponent, then let it slide in the 3rd or 4th quarter. People have problem equating losing = terrible defense. The Spurs are one of assist leaders as a team, 4th at 27 assists per game. They don’t have problem scoring and should be better once they stop trying to lose games. I don’t buy on Spurs terrible defensive rating on a “tanking” year. People want Wemby but don’t want terrible defense. Geez

  13. #888
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Man thatí awful defense on Lillard there. Heís suppose to let him pass and try to chase block him. But nooo, he makes Lillard shoot 3pt over him, which we all know would make highlight reels if they go in. Terrible defense
    If you wanna laugh on Sochan's defense, pick another play. This particular play, he actually plays great defense, disturbing and forcing Liilard to give the ball away... then going for the rebound.

    And not guessing or being unlucky that the rebound is gonna fall on a blazer player who will toss it all the way back to a lazy Lillard who gave up on the play isn't bad defense. And like the tweet says, when defended by sochan, Lillard went 2/7, 0/4 on 3...

  14. #889
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Defense is over rated. You need great offensive players and shooting. NBA players are too strong offensively and can score on anyone.

    Need to build around offense not defense.
    Sochan is overrated here. Guys score and shoot right over him. He doesn't have the best vertical lift and is not a good rebounder.
    these are consecutive posts, btw

    "everyone can score on everybody, so who cares" followed by "i saw people scoring over Sochan, he sucks"

  15. #890
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    do you guys remember how absolutely livid and upset rascal was after we won in 2014?

  16. #891
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    If you wanna laugh on Sochan's defense, pick another play. This particular play, he actually plays great defense, disturbing and forcing Liilard to give the ball away... then going for the rebound.

    And not guessing or being unlucky that the rebound is gonna fall on a blazer player who will toss it all the way back to a lazy Lillard who gave up on the play isn't bad defense. And like the tweet says, when defended by sochan, Lillard went 2/7, 0/4 on 3...
    Suspect John B was being sarcastic

  17. #892
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    these are consecutive posts, btw

    "everyone can score on everybody, so who cares" followed by "i saw people scoring over Sochan, he sucks"
    Sochan was drafted to be a defensive stopper. You don't draft guys in the lottery for defense. They better be strong offensive players in the lottery or they are wasted picks because the top scorers can score on anyone.

    That's how The Warriors beat Boston, they were better shooting the ball and better offensively.
    Boston was the better defensive team but defense coundn't carry them over GS.

  18. #893
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    Sochan was drafted to be a defensive stopper. You don't draft guys in the lottery for defense. They better be strong offensive players in the lottery or they are wasted picks because the top scorers can score on anyone.

    That's how The Warriors beat Boston, they were better shooting the ball and better offensively.
    Boston was the better defensive team but defense coundn't carry them over GS.
    So defense does not win Championships? I’m changing sports to watch

    Dubs don’t just outscore people, they are one of the best defensive teams in their championship runs. MJ/Pippen were top defensive players. Tell me which championship teams won in sheer offense?? (Jeopardy tune here)…

  19. #894
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    So defense does not win Championships? Iím changing sports to watch

    Dubs donít just outscore people, they are one of the best defensive teams in their championship runs. MJ/Pippen were top defensive players. Tell me which championship teams won in sheer offense?? (Jeopardy tune here)Ö
    All those teams had top scorers or the best player in the league. Jordan was the best during his time. GS won with offense. The Lakers Magic Johnson years.

    Basketball is an offensive game, so easy to score baskets for NBA players. The top scorers don't get shut down often.

  20. #895
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    do you guys remember how absolutely livid and upset rascal was after we won in 2014?
    He sure was. Just like every other Laker fan.

    There are currently a number of regular posters who'd be incredibly upset if the Spurs are lucky enough to get the 1st pick in the draft.

  21. #896
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    All those teams had top scorers or the best player in the league. Jordan was the best during his time. GS won with offense. The Lakers Magic Johnson years.

    Basketball is an offensive game, so easy to score baskets for NBA players. The top scorers don't get shut down often.
    I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelson’s team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moe’s Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers “outscore”? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. That’s where Spurs hang it’s hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80’s because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJ’s Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldn’t in that last minute of 1997 Finals That’s defense my friend.

  22. #897
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    I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelsonís team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moeís Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers ďoutscoreĒ? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. Thatís where Spurs hang itís hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80ís because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJís Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldnít in that last minute of 1997 Finals Thatís defense my friend.
    The Lakers showtime outscored people. Offensive play is more entertaining too. Spurs of the 70s were more entertaining than the Duncan teams.
    Also Doctor J and the 76ers outscored people. You need great shooting and scorers. Can't build without a couple of star offensive players and at least a top three player in the league.

    You could assemble the top five defensive players who are limited offensively and you'd never win.
    Last edited by rascal; 01-28-2023 at 01:29 PM.

  23. #898
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    He sure was. Just like every other Laker fan.

    There are currently a number of regular posters who'd be incredibly upset if the Spurs are lucky enough to get the 1st pick in the draft.
    Some people think Wemby is injury prone and don't want him drafted by the spurs.

  24. #899
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    I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelson’s team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moe’s Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers “outscore”? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. That’s where Spurs hang it’s hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80’s because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJ’s Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldn’t in that last minute of 1997 Finals That’s defense my friend.
    And I can give you top defensive teams that did not win championships.

  25. #900
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I legit can't believe we're debating whether defense wins championships. Of course they do. Can't win one without defense, even in this era.

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