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  1. #2301
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    I hope Sochan has a few more games like this to close out the season and some other team gets enamored with his flashes and we can move him. Not because I think it's time to give up on Sochan, because it's not, but because I just don't think he fits next to Wemby and the direction the team needs to go. Ironically, I feel the same about Devin.

    In a vacuum, these seem like good pieces to build around... but I'm afraid the more potential they show the more we'll just try to shove those square pieces into a round hole.
    So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

    I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft

  2. #2302
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    Interesting - can you expand on this? I don't agree here, but wanted to hear your thoughts.

    I think I can see your argument more with Vassell - he represents one of the less valuable archetypes in basketball very prone to being overrated as a primarily offensive shooting guard with minimal creation and minimal defensive versatility. The upper end of his archetype is Devin Booker and he's drawing dead to ever becoming as good as him. Other guys of his archetype like Jalen Green, Demar DeRozan, and Zach Lavine have not affected winning nearly as much as their contracts dictate. He's smaller than a Khris Middleton so he inherently has less defensive versatility. His primary value as a tough shot maker is limited by his size and non-elite athleticism. In that sense, I agree somewhat although I would argue that he has shown enough improvement as a playmaker this year to continue to invest in him. Still, if you could get all of his skills in a guy who's actually wing-sized, that'd certainly be more ideal.

    Sochan I think I'd disagree with a little more. To me at least, a fully realized and developed Sochan (like 7-8 years from now) is basically a guy who can guard 2-4 full time and is switchable 1-5 in spurts defensively. He's potentially a powerful antidote to the rising new breed of big creators who the Spurs will inevitably encounter in the playoffs. We've seen his success already against guys like Scottie Barnes and Luka, but this also applies in the future to guys like Anthony Edwards, Cade Cunningham, SGA/Jalen Williams, Tatum, Cooper Flagg (?) etc. I'd say his handle and passing are already at least above average for his size and age, and as long as you believe in his ability to fix his jump shot to league average you have a guy who offensively can attack a rotating defense and act as a vital cog in a dribble-pass-shoot offense.

    While you can certainly find adequate big wing defenders, the potential to combine that with a versatile offensive piece is more rare and that's what I'm hoping to see from Sochan. Can he protect the rim and handle true bigs down low? No but that probably comes down to roster construction and the need to pair him up with another big wing. I get that if you don't believe in his ability to ever develop into a league average shooter that that significantly limits his fit with the roster, but I disagree that a fully actualized Sochan isn't a good fit with Wemby. I guess I envision a T-Wolves style defense with a GOAT rim protector flanked by 2 elite perimeter defenders in the future. Pair a guy like Sochan with someone like Castle or Devin Carter in this year's draft, let it percolate for a few years, and I think you have a legit chance to build a top 1 defense.
    Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

    I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

    With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.

  3. #2303
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    So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

    I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft
    I posted what I think is the ideal lineup construction around Wemby, and no... it isn't four 3&D. Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion.

  4. #2304
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    Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

    I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

    With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.
    I hear you regarding Vassell. We will have to see going forward, but his archetype is also why I was down on Branham during the draft and am still down on him no matter if his shooting and confidence ever come around. A while ago I questioned what Branham's value would be even if he panned out, and he is unfortunately living up to those fears. An undersized scoring guard with minimal creation potential is almost never going to be worth his contract.

    I think the opposite is true for guys like Sochan. Defense first guys who impact multiple aspects of the game are generally paid less than their true impact. If you look at guys like Draymond Green, Aaron Gordon, Deni Avdija, even Derrick White, these guys are generally serially underpaid compared to what they bring to the team. Sochan is not remotely a good player right now and is basically just an inconsistent role player. I understand the concern regarding nonchalance, from another perspective I would argue that that same nonchalance may allow him to be more resistant to pressure situations in the future. Regardless, years 3-4 are typically when I expect to see a "jump", so I think we will have a better idea at that time whether he will be a valuable core piece moving forward.

  5. #2305
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    Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion.
    Assumed that by you sending Vassell and Sochan away

  6. #2306
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    Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

    I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

    With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.
    I thought what makes Sochan a nice player is his nonstop motor. We've seen him get every rebound, do things like go 8 PTs and 8 REB in a quarter, then he vanishes. Usually it's him being inconsistent, but v MEM he did that and then Pop takes him out for 12 minutes or so. Then he never gets back into the same flow. Seems like we can say that about several of our young players, when they are on they look good but they are very OFF AND ON.

    So I guess the main thing I am disagreeing with is that he is "nonchalant". Several times when he made a bonehead mistake I have seen him hold both hands to head in the middle of a game. To me that indicated this is someone that competes hard and cares, and I suspected that Pop talked him down from the ledge many times to get over it and move on to the next play.

    Part of his inconsistency and others may also be the grind of losing 60 game in a season. For example, on the rodeo road trip they looked totally out of gas. Then when they came home they seemed to rejuvenate back into the compe ive version for a bit. Now here we go again, OFF AND ON, mercifully ending soon so the team can finally retool.

  7. #2307
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    Sochan is still young and listed at 230. Does anyone think he bulks up to 250 or so when filling out more. Also noticed he is extremely light on is feet when not tripping over them, maybe we donít want him to put on much more weight so he can keep chasing smalls on the perimeter. Though Doncic is a bit fatter than most and even looked taller than him to me. Speaking of which. Sochan certainly turned up the D on Durant in game 2 v game 1.

    Edit: being mostly a Sochan sniffer I also meant to mention how easily he dunks I believe he has a 7+ wingspan but not sure we ever got a combine or more recent measurement on that. Did see an 8-11 standing reach per Google.

    Edit 2: Sochan at 250 with same hops and agility could be real nasty!
    Last edited by Knoxxx; 03-26-2024 at 09:19 PM.

  8. #2308
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    Sochan is still young and listed at 230. Does anyone think he bulks up to 250 or so when filling out more. Also noticed he is extremely light on is feet when not tripping over them, maybe we don’t want him to put on much more weight so he can keep chasing smalls on the perimeter. Though Doncic is a bit fatter than most and even looked taller than him to me. Speaking of which. Sochan certainly turned up the D on Durant in game 2 v game 1.

    Edit: being mostly a Sochan sniffer I also meant to mention how easily he dunks I believe he has a 7+ wingspan but not sure we ever got a combine or more recent measurement on that. Did see an 8-11 standing reach per Google.

    Edit 2: Sochan at 250 with same hops and agility could be real nasty!
    He'll be like Ron Artest at 250

  9. #2309
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    You can't claim it's because of defense Ö

    It was because of defense. Youíve forgotten how things were then. Youíre pretending they already knew Zollins would turn out so bad, for one thing. They did not know that. Donít confuse current knowledge with what was known at the beginning.

    Tre is an intelligent defender Ö

    No, he isnít. Heís gotten better over the course of this season, but left to himself heís a stupid defender. He has shown a bad tendency to abandon his assignment, and just run away to do something else, leaving his man wide open. Heíll do other stupid stuff, too. Youíve never noticed how he is, but some people have.

    Jeremy has the size, but as a wing is obviously too slow to be point of attack defender against elite guards.

    Tell it to the Spurs coaches. For example, Sochan got the assignment of guarding SGA in the OKC games.

    Donít confuse your own personal opinion, now, with what was known at the beginning of the season.

    Even to this day, Ö

    Itís about the way things were at the beginning of the season. Thatís when the Sochan-at-PG lineup happened, it isnít happening now. Your personal opinion about now is not relevant.

    The reason Pop penciled Sochan in at PG was because he wanted Sochan instead of Tre on defense. He then implemented, or tried to implement, a ďpositionlessĒ system on offense, where it didnít matter who initiated the action. The plan might have worked, on paper, but it didnít work out in games, as everyone has learned.

  10. #2310
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    Sochan didn’t finish strong but he basically neutralized Markannen which was big.

  11. #2311
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    LMAO what game are you watching. Markannen bullied Sochan all night. He was dunking on him in isos or destroying him on back door cuts. Only reason Lauri didn’t go off for 40 is because his team ignored him for the whole game. Sochan also missed every single shot he took in the 4th including two airballed 3s

  12. #2312
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    Clearly a fool who didn’t see Sohan handily outplay LM in the first half. And incurious enough not to notice his FIVE STEALS. LM didn’t know WTF hit him the first he wasn’t expecting it.

  13. #2313
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    LMAO what game are you watching. Markannen bullied Sochan all night. He was dunking on him in isos or destroying him on back door cuts. Only reason Lauri didn’t go off for 40 is because his team ignored him for the whole game. Sochan also missed every single shot he took in the 4th including two airballed 3s
    This is when you lose all objectivity because you have an axe to grind.

  14. #2314
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    It seems like he’s really embracing the rebounding role. And then he was a defensive menace as well.

  15. #2315
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    Clearly a fool who didn’t see Sohan handily outplay LM in the first half. And incurious enough not to notice his FIVE STEALS. LM didn’t know WTF hit him the first he wasn’t expecting it.
    Just straight up trying to get attention like several posters on here tbh

  16. #2316
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    Sochan played his role to a tee again Wednesday night as the Spurs beat Utah 118-111 to earn consecutive wins for just the fifth time this season. He finished with 17 points, nine rebounds and a career-best five steals and led the Spurs with eight deflections, two loose ball recoveries and seven contested 3-pointers, per NBA tracking data.
    "Jeremy has been playing great on the defensive end," said guard Devin Vassell, who led the Spurs with 31 points in Salt Lake City.

    And that stellar defense has come against foes of all shapes and sizes, whether it be Utah's speedy 6-3 point guard Collin Sexton or his towering teammate.
    Sochan muscled up to mitigate the size difference between himself and All-Star 7-footer Lauri Markkanen, making the Jazz's leading scorer labor to score 12 points on 5 of 11 in their individual matchup. Overall, the Jazz shot 10 of 21 against Sochan, who continues to raise his profile as one of the league's most irksome defenders.

    Spursí Jeremy Sochan is quietly turning into one of the NBAís toughest defenders (msn.com)

    Same article also leads in discussing his defense against Durant/Booker:

    Durant shot 12 of 17 on his way to 29 points that night in San Antonio. But Sochan made the Suns' masterful 6-foot-11 playmaker sweat for every bucket, and Durant seemed to run out of steam with just five points on six shots and one turnover in the decisive fourth quarter. Overall, Suns players scored just 14 points on 6 of 15 when defended by the feisty 6-8, 230-pound Sochan. Durant and his All-NBA teammate Devin Booker combined for 12 points on 5 of 11 with two turnovers when matched up against the Spurs' second-year forward.

    I also stumbled on a scatter plot analysis that showed Sochan was one of the most versatile defenders in the league, but didn't save the link and now can't find it.
    Last edited by Knoxxx; 03-28-2024 at 02:03 PM.

  17. #2317
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    Just straight up trying to get attention like several posters on here tbh
    I watched the whole game and Sochan is in the middle of everything constantly agitating. He has a nonstop motor and can guard most anyone on the court. That was the best I had seen him guard someone 7-feet tall, though I question that is a real height LM looks more like 6-10 to me. Then again, everyone looks smaller when Wemby is out there. The Claxton guy the other night listed at 6-11, I thought he looked like a Pee Wee leaguer vs Wemby. Probably because he is thin too.

    But back on topic, Sochan does numerous things that don't show up in the box score, I had no idea they were tracking deflections, loose ball recoveries, and contested 3s. The dude is everywhere is what I saw, and what that shows. His latest trick is to try and steal the dribble handoffs and it looks like a promising tactic. When it comes to finding new and annoying ways to punk the other team, Sochan is a PIMP. What I also notice is that similar to Wemby, he discourages a lot of shots while also getting the ball out of the hands of the opposing scoring threat he is guarding.

    So I think we got some idiots that don't watch full games and/or just check box scores or watch the last few minutes only. Then come on here commenting like an authority on the topic when they don't actually know their head from their ass.

    Edit: Google searching seems to indicate that LM barefoot height is allegedly 7-0.
    Last edited by Knoxxx; 03-28-2024 at 02:03 PM.

  18. #2318
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    besides the obvious improvement in rebounding, the most obvious improvement he has shown (but not just him) is the consistency in going around screens. The amount of free 3 pointers given has decreased greatly to everyone's benefit.

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  21. #2321
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    So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

    I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft
    Ya'll are trippin' balls, he ain't going nowhere an ain't coming off the bench. Buy your Sochan jerseys and wigs before the price triples, he's legit!

  22. #2322
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  23. #2323
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  24. #2324
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    Damn that is a pretty cool tat - As far as Sochan I am excited to see what he can bring in his third season. One thing is that I don’t think people understand how hard it is to play PG in the NBA for your first time. I think that helped him long term but hurt him short term, and I think will see a much better version next season.

  25. #2325
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    Damn that is a pretty cool tat - As far as Sochan I am excited to see what he can bring in his third season. One thing is that I don’t think people understand how hard it is to play PG in the NBA for your first time. I think that helped him long term but hurt him short term, and I think will see a much better version next season.
    I mean no playing PG is hard. Pop was one of those "people" who didn't understand that. Even if you are a natural water half full guy, the way Pop handled it was about the worst you could do. Like if you really wanted to experiment with Sochan as PG then bring in a vet who can teach Sochan how to play PG. Pop only has so much time on his hand and he really had nobody on the team able to teach Sochan how to play PG. No coach, no player, nobody. And I don' think this helped Sochan as much as you think it did. Bc at the end of the day, he never learned how to play the position.

    Tbh the Spurs need to hire Oberto to teach Sochan how to play basketball. Bc those are the areas we need him in. He also needs to learn how to make the corner 3. I haven't "given up" on Sochan but he was abench player on Baylor and he will be a great bench player for us in the future. I just hope it's for like 15 million a year.

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