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  1. #76
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    timvp in case the DJ trade doesn't happen, are there some plans to get DJ some help or do the Spurs plan to do basically the same thing they did last season? Do you know anything about that?

  2. #77
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    No its not a video game...it's a guarantee to be a mediocre team seeded between 7-11 for the foreseeable future...if that's our goal then your strategy is sound...
    The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

    The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

    Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

    I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

    There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.

  3. #78
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Some people here I feel like would have been better off being OKC fans (and their destiny for greatness) than Spurs fans.

  4. #79
    Spurs fan in Georgia Drom John's Avatar
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    timvp Good but formatting issues.
    I'm using Chrome, and there were several white space gaps over a screen long between text paragraphs. I first thought the page wasn't finished loading. I have not had this problem on any other front page post.

    Also, can you put bylines on the front page?

  5. #80
    Spurs fan in Georgia Drom John's Avatar
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    timvp Good but formatting issues.
    I'm using Chrome, and there were several white space gaps over a screen long between text paragraphs. I first thought the page wasn't finished loading. I have not had this problem on any other front page post.

    Also, can you put bylines on the front page?

  6. #81
    Make a trade steal
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    Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

    They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.

  7. #82
    Make a trade steal
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    Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

    They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.

  8. #83
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Even the Hawks “insider” from their board is running out of BS to say

    a lot of their fans are slowly doubting anything will happen

  9. #84
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Lol twitter pages sourcing timvp now

  10. #85
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Draft picks are the only way the spurs are going to find the franchise player. It's the way it's worked for the Spurs in the past. They build their teams with the draft.

    They aren't going to be singing one in FA or trading for a franchise player.
    You realize Dejounte Murray was drafted, right? And that Keldon, and Vassell, and all these players were drafted? And you realize that most 'franchise players' in this league were not franchise players right out of the box?

    I really wonder at how people process information.

  11. #86
    Spurs fan since 1995 RLT's Avatar
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    Murray's timeline doesn't match up with the youth movement, so move him.
    This. It's unfortunate but a trade makes the most sense for both parties.

  12. #87
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I don't like this. Things don't happen in a vacuum and crating off the Spurs' best player and leader is bad form for the rest of the team. What message does it send the other players? That if you play well enough, they'll ship you out?

    Maybe I'm old school, but when a player is good, you keep him. And then if he gets too expensive, you S&T him to another team that wants him at that range. It's happened that way for decades. It feels like the Spurs are 100% creating a problem that does not exist and then ignoring the repercussions.
    I don’t think it happens without some frustrations from DJ and the Spurs are catering to his request. Timvp mentioned that DJ has not requested any trades but is open to play with Trae. And he has expressed frustrations in the past, albeit not getting enough appreciations by the media because he plays for a small market, and a team that is rebuilding at the moment. I think Murray feels it hurts his “s om,” not getting MIP, etc. He has a point. Demar couldn’t even get AS as a Spur but an All-NBA with the winning Bulls with almost the same production stats. I don’t fault DJ for wanting out especially if he feels he’s on his peak and not getting the share of the limelight. In Spurs perspective, DJ is NOT a max player worth 200 million contract, not if DJ cannot even get them in the playoffs. A championship is another, but at least get the team in the playoffs if he’s a Max contract player. Who knows if DJ would jump ship in 2 years? One remembers Kawhi not so long ago. Also I don’t know if Pop is thrilled with DJ’s twitter-happy fingers. Pop has always played it tight-lip as far as Spurs business is concern. So there are reasons that a trade would be forthcoming. I think if it doesn’t happen now, it would by trade deadline. I think the Spurs would benefit getting a huge haul now if they are going to move him anyway. Waiting for a trade deadline would only attract contenders then, who need that extra push, but whose picks would be relatively lower than teams like Hawks, Wizards, TWolves.

    Preferably I like the Wizards and target Davis plus picks. Davis to me will be better than DJ would ever be, especially as a leader. Then I’d run for Ayton or Turner. I seriously don’t think losing DJ sends us back. I’ve pointed before that DJ might be a “system player” with Tre Jones almost getting a triple double whenever he starts. I think Primo would be fine and I think PATFO knows that so they’re comfortable moving forward. I think DJ can help other teams, but to me he is what I said a borderline AS, and not a Max player. Cash in, run and don’t look back. Peace

  13. #88
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

    Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

  14. #89
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

    Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?

  15. #90
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

    The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

    Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

    I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

    There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.

    Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

    I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

    As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.

  16. #91
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    The dark shadow looming behind all this, I feel, is Klutch. I don't think the Spurs want to deal with them and ever since DJM signed with them I felt this sort of thing would happen.

    Again, whether Murray is a max guy or not is not the issue. The question is how this is being handled. If Vassel and Keldon are the next two guys up, then how are they going to develop knowing they're going to get a boot to the rear in a couple of years?
    Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well

    Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.

  17. #92
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

    I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

    As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.
    When did I say that? I don't think you have understood any of the very basic things I'm saying.

  18. #93
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well

    Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.
    If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.

  19. #94
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Then you might as well ship Keldon out as well

    Spurs dealing Murray partly because of Klutch would be a death knell to their future, you might as well just stick to international guys if you're not going to deal with an agency that handles (and will handle) a lot of the best players in the league. That'd be absolutely stupid on their part.
    If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.

  20. #95
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    The fallacy in this thought is that the draft picks will automatically make a better team. The opposite is more likely -- a treadmill bad team.

    The fallacy in this thought is that the team isn't already close to the playoffs, which it is. There were two major things needed, which was size and being able to close games.

    Last summer, everyone was complaining about how this was the first year in decades where we didn't have an All-Star. Well, we developed an All-Star. The fallacy is in not seeing that everyone on the team is improving.

    I feel like people think this team is stuck in concrete and the only way it gets better is by these nebulous, intangible first round picks. Or that these nebulous, first round picks magically give us a tall skinny French guy.

    There is absolute danger that this kind of stuff ruins team chemistry and has everyone looking behind their backs, wondering where their next destination is. Again, this isn't a vidya game. These are real people.

    Do you feel DJ is worth a 200 million contract? Do you think DJ feels he does and if he doesn’t get it that he’ll walk?

    I don’t think he’s a max contract player. Yes he’s athletic and very good, but a borderline AS in my opinion. In truth, I think he’s a “system player” whose production can be mimicked with a capable guy. I argued Tre Jones averaged slmost triple double also when he starts. Imo an improved Primo would do as good setting up the team. And if the Spurs can get a huge haul while DJ is hot, then the FO needs to look out for what’s best for the team in the long run.

    As mentioned, I doubt this happened in a vacuum. DJ has shown frustrations that started the wheels turning.

  21. #96
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    You realize Dejounte Murray was drafted, right? And that Keldon, and Vassell, and all these players were drafted? And you realize that most 'franchise players' in this league were not franchise players right out of the box?

    I really wonder at how people process information.
    indeed.

  22. #97
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    another question to ask is how much of a draw is DJ? and how would his absence impact some already pedestrian season attendance figures?

  23. #98
    Make a trade steal
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    Murray is not a franchise player you build around. Spurs need to find that type of player in the draft.

    Can you process that Mr. Body.

  24. #99
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    It sends a message that the Spurs are going in on a full rebuild with the youth movement.

    Players know it's a business and trades are part of what can happen.
    That's exactly what the Spurs did with DeMar and people on this board bashed them for "not trading him when his value was high"

    Unfortunately, you're never gonna please everyone. I agree with you that he was a homegrown asset and putting him on the block may send some shock through the locker room, but NBA is still a business at the end of the day.

    Spurs aren't going to improve by resting on their laurels which only seem to be good enough for a fringe playoff team.

  25. #100
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    If Keldon is Klutch, then that's also a problem if he blows up to where Dejounte is (I don't think he will). Klutch is a big issue in this league.
    Keldon is part of Klutch. If even a whiff gets out that the Spurs dealt Murray because of his Klutch affiliation then that's it for the franchise.

    Like it or not, Klutch is a power player in the league probably even after LeBron retires. You do not blacklist them for the simple reason that it screws you over royally when drafting, signing FAs, etc. affiliated with them. It'd be one of the stupidest move that the organization could do. I think Wright and Pop are pretty dumb but they're not that dumb

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