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  1. #51
    Believe. 3&D_TBH's Avatar
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    Poeltl most certainly gone. I'd expect Keldon gone. <strong>I'm not sure why they drafted anybody this year, tbh, they shoud have traded them for future assets.</strong>
    <br><br>

    The part I bolded is a bit extreme--almost pouty--isn't it? You sound as if no one in the Spurs organization has a record of making ANY good choices as all. From a certain point of view, it could be said that the Spurs are betting on themselves to identify better talent than Murray. I dig it. And I think they are capable. I'm sure people will call me a homer or whatever, but I'm not so sure that Dejounte and Trae are gonna shock and awe the league for the next few years. Those unprotected picks in 3-4 years could just as easily be top picks given that the Hawks for sure don't have a recent history worth much at all. I'm not sold on the Hawks at all. Trae played terribly in these recent playoffs and DJ is not a max player. I think we are building a war chest, and we have a front office that knows how to use one. Also, there's the shot at Victor W next year. No reason to jump off a cliff. Brahnam, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Primo, and Wesley, might just be good enough to stomp a mudhole in the Hawks asses by themselves by then as well. None of us know. That's why it's fun to watch and root. Cheers.&nbsp;<br>
    <br>

  2. #52
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

    Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

  3. #53
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

    Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.

  4. #54
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.

  5. #55
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The part I bolded is a bit extreme--almost pouty--isn't it? You sound as if no one in the Spurs record has a record of making ANY good choices as all. From a certain point of view, it could be said that the Spurs are betting on themselves to Identify better talent than Murray. I dig it. And I think they are capable. I'm sure people will call me a homer or whatever, but I'm not so sure that Dejounte and Trae are gonna shock and awe the league for the next years. Those unprotected picks in 3-4 years could just as easily be top picks given that the Hawks for sure don't have a recent history worth much at all. I'm not sold on the Hawks at all. Trae played terribly in these recent playoffs and DJ is not a max player. I think we are building a war chest, and we have a front office that knows how to use one. Also, there's the shot at Victor next year. No reason to jump off a cliff. Brahnam, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Primo, and Wesley, might just be good enough to stomp a mudhole in the Hawks asses by then as well. None of us know. That's why it's fun to watch and root. Cheers.
    Yeah, you're a homer.

    And I wish people would stop talking about a "shot at Victor next year." It's lame.

  6. #56
    Believe.
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    Do the Spurs at present have any players they want to keep?
    What kind of player would they want to keep?

    Can't wait for them to develop Sochan into a young All-star so they can trade him away for mystery draft picks in the far distant future.

  7. #57
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Someone needs to photoshop this with Diversity Hire GM as the blonde

  8. #58
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Honestly though, how hard is it to draft and develop a high usage fringe all-star?
    Pretty hard I'd say with picks in the 20s since Murray's the only one they have since Parker in 2001.

  9. #59
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    Murray would have been a moron to sign an extension early with how much of a pay cut it would have been from his market value. I understand trading him if he said he was going to walk in 2024 but being smart enough to not sign cheap in 2023 doesn't mean he's gone in 2024.
    Exactly. It’s the one “downside” of getting him on a bargain on his first deal. We couldn’t offer him a more compe ive extension now.

  10. #60
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.
    God I hope not. This team needs to win 15-20 games next year.

  11. #61
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    Someone needs to photoshop this with Diversity Hire GM as the blonde

  12. #62
    OH YOU LIKE IT!!! slick'81's Avatar
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    Prediction: Spurs +/- wins compared to last season will be less than 5, and it will have been revealed that as good as DJM was, his impact on outcomes wasn't as big as we all thought.

    want to put some money on it?

  13. #63
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    It feels gross that the Spurs dumped DJ like that.

    Patfo got drunk on hearing "unprotected"... When it probably wont even matter.

    I thought the Spurs were ran differently. This seems cold tbh. Spurs are basically saying off DJ and betting he fails to then turn around and then reap the benefits of those failures! Kinda evil...

  14. #64
    生麦生米生ハメ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

    Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.
    The Charlotte pick being somewhat likely to convert into two seconds is the part that really sticks for me.

  15. #65
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    My feeling is the Spurs aren't even tanking. This wasn't a tank move.

  16. #66
    Believe. Kurik's Avatar
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    It feels gross that the Spurs dumped DJ like that.

    Patfo got drunk on hearing "unprotected"... When it probably wont even matter.

    I thought the Spurs were ran differently. This seems cold tbh. Spurs are basically saying off DJ and betting he fails to then turn around and then reap the benefits of those failures! Kinda evil...
    You make it sound like the Spurs dumped DJ into the wilderness. DJ is happy with how the Spurs handled it lol.

  17. #67
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Twitter is animated now with so many posts from fans of other teams assuming that Poeltl and KJ are there for the taking...
    they should be there for the taking. what the are we doing sitting on poeltl? he's a good center on a nice cheap deal this year. what good do we have for that if our objective is not making the playoffs this year? are we really going to pay this guy 4/60 at the end of the year or something more than that? unlikely. get what you can for him.

  18. #68
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    How many teams haven't been to the lottery at all in the past three years? Eight. Only four have made the playoffs five times in a row, and only one has done it more than six times. It's actually not very likely that Atlanta will avoid conveying a lotto pick three years in a row to SA. Spurs fans don't tend to appreciate it for obvious reasons, but franchises tend not to be stable. In order for Atlanta to both benefit from the trade and avoid giving the Spurs a lotto pick, they'd have to make the playoffs seven years in a row. That's extremely unlikely. Right off the bat, the picks have more value than some people might fear.

    Unprotected picks also allow the Spurs to trade way more of their assets that they could before. For example, the Spurs could trade each of their natural picks from 2024 all the way to 2028 without having to worry about the Stepien rule. That's not a huge thing now, but obviously it can be down the road. Those 2026 and 2028 picks are also enhanced because they come with swap rights. You're not betting on the Spurs being bad; you're betting on at least one of the Spurs or Hawks/Celtics being bad. Those are much better odds, which removes much of the downsides of the pick while adding upside. The Spurs are also able to use the unprotected firsts for swaps instead of their natural picks. So if they make another trade that involves a ton of picks coming from a team, they can, instead of offering a swap between their pick and that other team's pick, they can get the two best of their pick, ATL's pick and the new team's pick. That almost happened last year, when the Rockets barely avoided OKC being able to swap Houston's pick with Boston's that year.

    There are 17 unprotected picks/swaps in the NBA right now, and the Spurs have three of them. And this is not counting Boston's top-1 protected swap. They are a rare commodity, and SA is probably third behind OKC and NOP in terms of their collection, and they've been doing this for less than a year. It's why I was telling folks to not freak out about the Spurs "not picking a direction" two years ago. It's easy to collect assets when you're rebuilding. They weren't going to miss their chance just because guys like Gay, Mills and even LMA didn't get moved for value.

    As I said in another post, I think things were significantly rockier between Murray and the Spurs than we knew. Credit goes out to DJM and Klutch for keeping everything in house, and I don't think there's bad blood or anything. But I don't think the front office saw him the same way as the marketing team did. I don't think they believe him leaving is the blow a lot of us perceived it as. They MIGHT miss out on a higher return if he has another All-Star season. But they might've missed out on three years of complete control of another team's picks if Murray didn't put it together or if the buyers moved on or had bad starts to the season. I'm all about leverage and hope the Spurs did everything they could to bring in OO too, but I also understand why they wanted to do this cleanly and move on.

    Agree with all of this mostly, but I’m a simple man, Chinook. You dont trade young all stars under contract and walk away with ZERO short term wins from the trade. Bottom line, boiled down, even agreeing big picture as I said on the direction and upside and strategy. Nothing, IMO, changes that evaluation of the trade in isolation.

    B- trade now, with potential for it to be A+ if any of what you said pans out and SA truly gets great value for the picks (directly or via more moves in aggregate).

    They did right by Murray, ok by themselves and I do think trading for DeRozan was a huge mistake and not being aggressive on traders for LMA/Rudy/Mills when they had more value does hurt some (but its nitpicking to a degree).

    SA finally did some of the things Ive been asking so I am happy with the progress they have shown; my confidence in Wright has been established I would say and they have a grasp on modern small market nba so thats good.

    Everyone handled it professionally and it definitely led to a win-win-ish scenario. I just dont like trading all stars and needing to rely on mis-fortune to come out clearly ahead. It should be all be guaranteed you come out ahead clearly.

    To the point I wonder what the other trade was with the team offering the “attractive young player and 3 firsts”. I would personally can see me wanting to have a very good young player and 3 lottery protected firsts depending on the player vs this from ATL.

    It’s a lot of picks and they are placing their bets on the unprotected future picks over all else…we will see if that gamble pays off

  19. #69
    Make a trade steal
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    My feeling is the Spurs aren't even tanking. This wasn't a tank move.
    Yes they are.

    You'll see no huge FA incoming that will mess up the tank.

  20. #70
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    remember when we all thought the Murray/White backcourt was going to be amazing?

  21. #71
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I'm kinda shocked at how emotional people are honestly. I don't love this trade cause I loved DJM but I definitely don't think it's awful. Some of you melting down is kinda hilarious though.

    Gonna enjoy watching the young guys again this year. Almost a new crew of youth.
    Dude, I agree but I just want the spurs to not muck this up. They did the hard part - dont ruin it by not trading Jakob, Doug and Richardson and using cap space on McDermott like guys just to win 30 games instead of 20.

    Bottom out and lets us watch the young guys blossom more etc..

  22. #72
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    I said a couple days ago I was in the trade Murray camp, so I kind of like the deal tbh. I expected the Spurs to start discussions at three 1sts + two 1st swaps with minimal or no protections. They ended up getting the three 1sts but only one of the swaps with no protections on two of the 1sts.

    Ultimately I think it came down to a combination of the Spurs not really wanting to max out Murray in two years, not being able to find an avenue to put a superstar (or perennial All-Star) next to him to vault them to being a contender, and also Murray wanting to play with another superstar. So the trade was kind of mutual.

    Could the Spurs have gotten more? Maybe, but I also trust they got more than just the Hawks offer (as timvp said), and ultimately let the market set the price and took the best offer. If you wait until after this off-season Murrays value starts declining imo.

    I don't really get the uproar on here either, the Spurs were a 34 win team last season with Murray fully healthy. And they got dominated in the play-in game against a decent Pelicans team where Murray went 5-19. Ok the play in game is one game, but the season wasn't one game. You can argue a big reason why the Spurs only won 34 games was because of roster imbalance, no PF etc. and that they would have improved with some roster additions. Thats true to an extent but how much improvement can you get through the draft and via trade with the assets the Spurs have. Sochan is a great pick but he's not going to catapult the Spurs from a 34 win team to a 50 win team in his first few years. By that time the Spurs would have to max out Murray. Maybe the Spurs could have traded Jakob and a pick for OG Anunoby to put next to Murray, but maybe the Raps wanted more than the Spurs could offer. Does OG Anunoby really get you from 34 wins to 50 wins? Maybe the Spurs could have signed Ayton to pair with Murray, but does that team win more than 45 games and get bounced in the 1st round, and in two years you'll be paying Ayton and Murray a combined $70m assuming Murray is maxed.

    I love Murray, and was ok with keeping him and enjoying a potential 40-45 win season with him leading the young guys. But that would have ultimately led to another play-in game or 1st round exit at best.

  23. #73
    Believe.
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    Any insight on to why the spurs would consider trading him? Klutch sports? Extension?
    Max they can give him in an extension this year is 19 mil next year is 22. So zero chance he accepts. That is the downside of that cheap contract, he is flight risk. That gives us a 1 year window to build a playoff team with him.

  24. #74
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Pretty hard I'd say with picks in the 20s since Murray's the only one they have since Parker in 2001.
    Can't really bring up rookies during the Big 3 era, imo. I doubt Murray develops into the player he is today if he is drafted 10 years earlier. The usage just wouldn't have been there. And the current crop is still TBD. It took Murray 6 years.

    And if you can't develop one, just max one out. It really isn't this devastating blow. He's a great complimentary piece for a team looking for that final puzzle piece but the Spurs are so far away from being able to utilize him in that ideal way.

  25. #75
    Make a trade steal
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    I said a couple days ago I was in the trade Murray camp, so I kind of like the deal tbh. I expected the Spurs to start discussions at three 1sts + two 1st swaps with minimal or no protections. They ended up getting the three 1sts but only one of the swaps with no protections on two of the 1sts.

    Ultimately I think it came down to a combination of the Spurs not really wanting to max out Murray in two years, not being able to find an avenue to put a superstar (or perennial All-Star) next to him to vault them to being a contender, and also Murray wanting to play with another superstar. So the trade was kind of mutual.

    Could the Spurs have gotten more? Maybe, but I also trust they got more than just the Hawks offer (as timvp said), and ultimately let the market set the price and took the best offer. If you wait until after this off-season Murrays value starts declining imo.

    I don't really get the uproar on here either, the Spurs were a 34 win team last season with Murray fully healthy. And they got dominated in the play-in game against a decent Pelicans team where Murray went 5-19. Ok the play in game is one game, but the season wasn't one game. You can argue a big reason why the Spurs only won 34 games was because of roster imbalance, no PF etc. and that they would have improved with some roster additions. Thats true to an extent but how much improvement can you get through the draft and via trade with the assets the Spurs have. Sochan is a great pick but he's not going to catapult the Spurs from a 34 win team to a 50 win team in his first few years. By that time the Spurs would have to max out Murray. Maybe the Spurs could have traded Jakob and a pick for OG Anunoby to put next to Murray, but maybe the Raps wanted more than the Spurs could offer. Does OG Anunoby really get you from 34 wins to 50 wins? Maybe the Spurs could have signed Ayton to pair with Murray, but does that team win more than 45 games and get bounced in the 1st round, and in two years you'll be paying Ayton and Murray a combined $70m assuming Murray is maxed.

    I love Murray, and was ok with keeping him and enjoying a potential 40-45 win season with him leading the young guys. But that would have ultimately led to another play-in game or 1st round exit at best.
    I don't think the Spurs could have gotten more. They were talking to other teams and weren't getting unprotected pick offers so the Atlanta deal was the best.

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