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  1. #1
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Debate will go on and on about how if Murray was worth building a team around. We will not know for certain until maybe half a decade later. Fact is: the Spurs didnít believe it. I donít think we have to look at his individual performance and assess whether or not he could have elevated his game more or if it was possible for the team to raise its ceiling while paying him a max contract. I think the answer is simpler than that. With the Spurs, it has always been about culture. Iíve been on record saying DJ was a ticking time bomb. Even during when I supported his rise, I held the same belief. Itís known heís had a rough childhood, and that has led him to have trust issues as an adult and random outbursts on social media or at times on the court. These are not things I held against him. He is human, after all, and we all go through . The problem is when it affects his ability to lead. Those trust issues? -Crept into not seeking mentorship more from the Big Three. If anyone noticed, DJ and Parker have this weird relationship where they only acknowledge each other when they have to. -He did not truly take Primo under his wing. I paid attention to these two throughout last season, and while there are some photos of Murray talking to Primo on the floor, he would post a cryptic message the next day about how people ďneed to stay in their laneĒ. -Speaking of those cryptic messagesó imagine if the leader of the team was constantly posting about the people who are ďrealĒ to him and everyone else is fake. That is toxic as . Murray was always insecure, and maybe that motivated him big time to become a star but itís a serious character flaw. I always thought Murray would grow out of it eventually as the years go by and that he would retire as a Spur. I thought that by the end of his career, he would be grateful about how the Spurs molded him into a great person. I think the Spurs still did end up doing that. He forgave his father recently and that was no small thing. Forgiving someone who hurt you is probably one of the most mature and most difficult thing one can do. And Murray did that. Iím proud of him. The Spurs made a decision today. A decision that was probably brewing for awhile. The team now has players who seemingly have no troubled past. I think trading Murray allows someone else more equipped to take the leadership role. Someone else who will be more inclusive and accepts people for who they are. Everyone knows we need it. Iím excited to find out who that will be.
    Last edited by DC23; 06-29-2022 at 09:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Holy mother of wall of text. That did not format correctly. I even previewed the changes and it didn’t look like that. Here it is again:

    Debate will go on and on about how if Murray was worth building a team around. We will not know for certain until maybe half a decade later.

    Fact is: the Spurs didn’t believe it.
    Why?
    I don’t think we have to look at his individual performance and assess whether or not he could have elevated his game more or if it was possible for the team to raise its ceiling while paying him a max contract.
    I think the answer is simpler than that. With the Spurs, it has always been about culture. I’ve been on record saying DJ was a ticking time bomb. Even during when I supported his rise, I held the same belief. It’s known he’s had a rough childhood, and that has led him to have trust issues as an adult and random outbursts on social media or at times on the court. These are not things I held against him. He is human, after all, and we all go through . The problem is when it affects his ability to lead.

    Those trust issues?
    -Crept into not seeking mentorship more from the Big Three. If anyone noticed, DJ and Parker have this weird relationship where they only acknowledge each other when they have to.
    -He did not truly take Primo under his wing. I paid attention to these two throughout last season, and while there are some photos of Murray talking to Primo on the floor, he would post a cryptic message the next day about how people “need to stay in their lane”.
    -Speaking of those cryptic messages— imagine if the leader of the team was constantly posting about the people who are “real” to him and everyone else is fake. That is toxic as . Murray was always insecure, and maybe that motivated him big time to become a star but it’s a serious character flaw. I always thought Murray would grow out of it eventually as the years go by and that he would retire as a Spur. I thought that by the end of his career, he would be grateful about how the Spurs molded him into a great person. I think the Spurs still did end up doing that. He forgave his father recently and that was no small thing. Forgiving someone who hurt you is probably one of the most mature and most difficult thing one can do. And Murray did that. I’m proud of him.

    The Spurs made a decision today. A decision that was probably brewing for awhile. The team now has players who seemingly have no troubled past. I think trading Murray allows someone else more equipped to take the leadership role. Someone else who will be more inclusive and accepts people for who they are. Everyone knows we need it.

    I’m excited to find out who that will be.

  3. #3
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    the inability to edit posts now

  4. #4
    Dyna5ty BatManu20's Avatar
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    This whole site is functioning like it’s Windows ‘98 right now tbh.

  5. #5
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Let me go on record saying I'm a proponent of this trade unlike some others who are upset. And I get people being upset cause DJ was one of us. But we simply weren't going anywhere with him as the lead.

    Now I will add this caveat...I'm only down with the tank if Pop will actually play the young kids. If not, him and this was a terrible idea.

  6. #6
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    I am down with that but who every he plays if they are winning sub their ass..lol

  7. #7
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Btw, “was not a culture fit to lead” is what I meant

    and i also think the trade was made not for the Spurs to tank but to avoid commitment and remain flexible. People will be so disappointed if the Spurs don’t have a losing record this season which I think there IS a chance to happen. The Spurs won’t try to lose. They will be taught to remain compe ive.

  8. #8
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I do think the team was going to have to find a better player than Murray if they were going to be a contender, and I didn't know if he'd be able to accept that. We'll get a sense of that when we see him with Young. The Hawks don't need Murray to be a true star. They need him to play a role and raise their floor and ceiling. Can he handle potentially jockeying with Collins for second place in touches? I'm not going to go into my innate skepticism about Murray's demeanor much here. I've put those thoughts down plenty over the years. I think trading him was the best thing for his development, though. He doesn't feel the pressure to be the guy in Atlanta, nor does he feel compelled to stay. Hopefully he doesn't blow up and self-destruct as a person. He seems like a good dude who's been through a lot, and he deserves to reap the benefits of his hard work.

    I don't know that it's a goal of the Spurs to not have any troubled players on their team. I think they want a good culture and locker room, but I don't think that's something that has to come from skeleton-less closets. I think Lonnie's a great example of that. I have my su ions that DJM was't the locker-room favorite, but it takes all kinds. Iron sharpens iron, and tumbled stones polish each other smooth.

  9. #9
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Yeah he was a Republican not a donkey

  10. #10
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    I do think the team was going to have to find a better player than Murray if they were going to be a contender, and I didn't know if he'd be able to accept that. We'll get a sense of that when we see him with Young. The Hawks don't need Murray to be a true star. They need him to play a role and raise their floor and ceiling. Can he handle potentially jockeying with Collins for second place in touches? I'm not going to go into my innate skepticism about Murray's demeanor much here. I've put those thoughts down plenty over the years. I think trading him was the best thing for his development, though. He doesn't feel the pressure to be the guy in Atlanta, nor does he feel compelled to stay. Hopefully he doesn't blow up and self-destruct as a person. He seems like a good dude who's been through a lot, and he deserves to reap the benefits of his hard work.

    I don't know that it's a goal of the Spurs to not have any troubled players on their team. I think they want a good culture and locker room, but I don't think that's something that has to come from skeleton-less closets. I think Lonnie's a great example of that. I have my su ions that DJM was't the locker-room favorite, but it takes all kinds. Iron sharpens iron, and tumbled stones polish each other smooth.
    Got my post in before yours. I knew it was coming. Yes, I don’t think the goal is for the Spurs to have a team of scholarboys. I meant that maybe they’re looking for that type for a leader though.

  11. #11
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    When Brian Wright said after the draft they “don’t try to gamble with character”, I felt it validated my thinking on this subject.

  12. #12
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Had nothing to do with culture. We couldn’t have asked for a better personality than Dejounte tbh

  13. #13
    Veteran Mnky's Avatar
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    Had nothing to do with culture. We couldn’t have asked for a better personality than Dejounte tbh

  14. #14
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Yeah he was a Republican not a donkey
    What is wrong with you?

  15. #15
    Believe.
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    All this "culture fit" is just what weak pussy ass managers and leaders do when they don't have the ability to resolve conflict. They seek out this environment where everyone is part of some "culture" and thus try to make it so there is no conflict and then they themselves never have to do what is part of a manager / leaders job, which is resolving conflict, getting buy in, etc...

    KD didn't fit the warriors culture, to the point that him and draymond damn near got in a fight. But Kerr is a strong leader so they got 2 chips out of it anyway.

    The last dance showed that everyone hated Mike and Mike hated everyone. Phil is a dumbass when it comes to basketball but he is a ing master at managing ego's. So he got 6 rings out of them. Kobe and Shaq hated each other but Phil squeezed 3 rings out of them as well.

    Lebron wanted Spoelstra flat out fired when he got to Miami. Wanted Riley to come coach the team cause he had all the championship equity. Riley told him nope Spoelstra aint going nowhere so get with the ing program. They got 2 rings out of it and Spo is a made man in Miami.

    Dejounte grinded his way up from the 29th pick to an nba all star. When the corpse of tony parker was out here scoring 6 points a game he was a good soldier and sucked it up. When LMA, Dejounte, Rudy, and Marco, and Patty, were chucking for their last big nba paydays Dejounte was a good soldier.

    I don't get all of this "Can Murray handle sharing touches with blah blah blah"...uh John Collins shoots the ball 12 times a game so its not like he james ing harden...and Murray is a guy who spent 3 years surrounded by straight up chuckers at the end of their careers.

    Now people taking his social media post and making up whatever they want out of it. Can you name a player who DOESNT post cryptic on social media. Draymond got a whole ing podcast saying all types of wild and Golden State is doing just fine. KD has one of the wildest online persona's you will ever see and he is literally the only player doing his job in Brooklyn. Ja Morant is online talking like he some real thug ass gravedigga for real and there might not be a team or a single player with more upside to them than the him and the Grizzlies. But Dejounte is some sort of villian cause he post "you can't trust fake people" on the internet? What?

    I saw Sochan said Dejounte had already reached out to him and welcomed him to San Antonio. I don't see where he said Primo did the same. Let me get my pitch fork out and start talking about how it aint no way Primo can ever be a leader because I have not heard one thing about him reaching out to our number 9 draft pick. ing trade this toxic cancer right now before he does more damaged to the 3 impressionable young minds we just drafted. Who cares if he isn't old enough to drink a beer, get him out of here.

  16. #16
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    DJ did his best.

    If we had Duncan, or Manu, or Tony, this wouldn't be a problem, as there were leaders in the team that could keep DJ accountable.

    DJ as a leader had a ceiling.. and he is too turnover-prone as the #1 option. He's best suited as a #3 option at the best. But he has a lot of tools to be a great, great NBA player and defender in this league.

    I just hope our front office know what they're doing. It doesn't seem to make sense these last few years. Well really, ever since Presti stepped out.

  17. #17
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    Holy mother of wall of text. That did not format correctly. I even previewed the changes and it didn’t look like that. Here it is again:

    Debate will go on and on about how if Murray was worth building a team around. We will not know for certain until maybe half a decade later.

    Fact is: the Spurs didn’t believe it.
    Why?
    I don’t think we have to look at his individual performance and assess whether or not he could have elevated his game more or if it was possible for the team to raise its ceiling while paying him a max contract.
    I think the answer is simpler than that. With the Spurs, it has always been about culture. I’ve been on record saying DJ was a ticking time bomb. Even during when I supported his rise, I held the same belief. It’s known he’s had a rough childhood, and that has led him to have trust issues as an adult and random outbursts on social media or at times on the court. These are not things I held against him. He is human, after all, and we all go through . The problem is when it affects his ability to lead.

    Those trust issues?
    -Crept into not seeking mentorship more from the Big Three. If anyone noticed, DJ and Parker have this weird relationship where they only acknowledge each other when they have to.
    -He did not truly take Primo under his wing. I paid attention to these two throughout last season, and while there are some photos of Murray talking to Primo on the floor, he would post a cryptic message the next day about how people “need to stay in their lane”.
    -Speaking of those cryptic messages— imagine if the leader of the team was constantly posting about the people who are “real” to him and everyone else is fake. That is toxic as . Murray was always insecure, and maybe that motivated him big time to become a star but it’s a serious character flaw. I always thought Murray would grow out of it eventually as the years go by and that he would retire as a Spur. I thought that by the end of his career, he would be grateful about how the Spurs molded him into a great person. I think the Spurs still did end up doing that. He forgave his father recently and that was no small thing. Forgiving someone who hurt you is probably one of the most mature and most difficult thing one can do. And Murray did that. I’m proud of him.

    The Spurs made a decision today. A decision that was probably brewing for awhile. The team now has players who seemingly have no troubled past. I think trading Murray allows someone else more equipped to take the leadership role. Someone else who will be more inclusive and accepts people for who they are. Everyone knows we need it.

    I’m excited to find out who that will be.
    Very insightful, Dejounte. I can see a lot of truth in these perspectives. DJ's in-game blowups were always a concern to me. I remember him yelling act Pop and having some serious mental lapses in crunch time situations. I sensed the writing might be on the wall.
    He was a great find and has developed into a rare player. He still has room to grow and it seems that both sides have handled this well.....so far. There may be some Twitter and IG posts that are regrettable coming soon. Even if that happens, I see DJ's life greatly improved by being part of the Spurs and I seem being deeply committed to his growth as a player and maximizing his potential of reaching his ceiling. Win-win.

    One question.......are you keeping your moniker?

  18. #18
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    ^DJ paved the way for the future so I dont see why not tbh

  19. #19
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    At DJ not wanting Parker to be his mentor. I'm not sure if there are many guys who would want Tony to mentor them knowing his character.

  20. #20
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    Talking about his character or leadership ability is silly. How the do you really know. I enjoyed watching him play and develope into the player he is. I agree that he isn’t the guy to build a team around. I think it really just comes down to that. When his contract is up he would have been deserving of a max or close to max deal. That would have resulted in 7-10th seeds for the next decade. The Spurs aren’t going to land top tier free agents so the only hope is the draft. They did the right thing. Last thing, all this Pop hate, I don’t care for some of the stuff he says or does but the guy can coach and he brings stability to the team. When he does decide to retire he will be missed.

  21. #21
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Fk Sours culture. It's gotten rediculous. There is a reason literally no one with any success wants to play here.

  22. #22
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    DJ did his best.

    If we had Duncan, or Manu, or Tony, this wouldn't be a problem, as there were leaders in the team that could keep DJ accountable.

    DJ as a leader had a ceiling.. and he is too turnover-prone as the #1 option. He's best suited as a #3 option at the best. But he has a lot of tools to be a great, great NBA player and defender in this league.

    I just hope our front office know what they're doing. It doesn't seem to make sense these last few years. Well really, ever since Presti stepped out.
    Murray had a 3.5 assist/turnover ratio which is outstanding tbh

  23. #23
    Believe.
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    The truth is Murray's ceiling is the third best player on a championship level team. They knew his ceiling, why hold on when him being the best player on the roster would lead him to expect max level compensation. Wasn't a long term fit, timing wise. You wouldn't be able to build a le contending team if they had to max Murray to keep him.

  24. #24
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Spurs couldn't offer him an extension that he was worth. And Klutch would want a max. So for the spurs to offer him the max, they'll have to let him become unrestricted. It was the right time to trade him. 2 years left on his contract. Hawks could risk losing him or having to over pay him.

  25. #25
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Spurs couldn't offer him an extension that he was worth. And Klutch would want a max. So for the spurs to offer him the max, they'll have to let him become unrestricted. It was the right time to trade him. 2 years left on his contract. Hawks could risk losing him or having to over pay him.
    We had at least another year to determine his value.

    This trade will be easier to swallow if they are actually committed to tanking. We’d be naive to think that is a given. We also likely just ate 15-20mm in Galo just to buy him out.

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