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  1. #26
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Why does there have to be logic in nature?
    Intelligent creator vs random dustspect.
    Doesn't "have" to be.

  2. #27
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Why does there have to be logic in nature?
    does logic even exist?

  3. #28
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Intelligent creator vs random dustspect.
    Doesn't "have" to be.
    of course thats what blake wants to turn the discussion into, because he knows how senseless it is to be born with a penis and believe its logical or reasonable to work directly against nature.

  4. #29
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    does logic even exist?
    In nature? Of course not. Why do dolphins not have gills?

  5. #30
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    of course thats what blake wants to turn the discussion into, because he knows how senseless it is to be born with a penis and believe its logical or reasonable to work directly against nature.
    I'm not turning it into anything lol. Logic is your claim, not mine.

  6. #31
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    In nature? Of course not. Why do dolphins not have gills?
    Are dolphins fish? (noaa.gov)

  7. #32
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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  8. #33
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    In nature? Of course not. Why do dolphins not have gills?
    Not that I recall, no
    Do you understand now that dolphins do not have gills?

  9. #34
    Because I choose to. Neo.'s Avatar
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    Do you understand now that dolphins do not have gills?

  10. #35
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Do you understand now that dolphins do not have gills?
    Yes. Do you think it's logical that they don't?

  11. #36
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    LEO stuff

  12. #37
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Yes. Do you think it's logical that they don't?
    I don't think you understand the concept of logic. You need a proposition first. It's a fact dolphins don't have gills.

    What trans people do isn't illogical. It might seem unreasonable but not everyone is focused on the continuation of the human race. I mean, people consume ty food, overindulge in alcohol and there's even abortions. If the continuation of the human race was at the forefront of reason, none of that would make sense.

    It would be illogical if a trans person felt like they were born of the wrong gender then celebrated that fact.

  13. #38
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    I don't think you understand the concept of logic. You need a proposition first. It's a fact dolphins don't have gills.

    What trans people do isn't illogical. It might seem unreasonable but not everyone is focused on the continuation of the human race. I mean, people consume ty food, overindulge in alcohol and there's even abortions. If the continuation of the human race was at the forefront of reason, none of that would make sense.

    It would be illogical if a trans person felt like they were born of the wrong gender then celebrated that fact.
    I didn't bring logic into this. You'll need to discuss that with the ones that did.

  14. #39
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    MT's ex-girlfriend must've had a or something.
    That makes one of them

  15. #40
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    yes. transgender people are at high risk of suicide. this is known. this is why they need effective treatment. among those is surgery.

    these studies arent saying that suicide rates increase after surgery

  16. #41
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Ha! I challenge that.

    Any accurate studies?
    this just means you will rule out any study that goes against your narrative as inaccurate

  17. #42
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    40% suicide rate tells you all you need to know.
    probably aided by the fact that assholes such as yourself treat them as subhuman

  18. #43
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    yes. transgender people are at high risk of suicide. this is known. this is why they need effective treatment. among those is surgery.

    these studies arent saying that suicide rates increase after surgery
    1. "effective treatment" should include telling the patient "you are absolutely not a ___ trapped in a ___'s body and should remain your birth gender. I will help you see what trauma etc led you to believe you should trans and help you remain birth bio gender."

    2. By the same token the suicide rate is not going DOWN after they get chopped and drugged.
    So obviously their being coached, influenced to trans was wrong in how many cases?

    As the trans's who want to return to bio have said, all kinds of $$$$$ to be made by the pro trans influencers.

  19. #44
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    this just means you will rule out any study that goes against your narrative as inaccurate
    Projection from you.

  20. #45
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    you're welcome to explain the logic behind the idea that people born with female sex organs is actually a male
    i dont think most people say this.

    as it just about always boils down to, there's always a conflation of sex and gender in these discussions. sex is typically defined by your role in reproduction. males create sperm, femalez have eggs/ovaries, etc.

    somebody born male who identifies as a woman doesnt believe that they are biologically female. they realize they have a , create sperm, and dont have ovaries. when somebody identifies as a boy/girl or man/woman, thats referring to gender.

    gender is basically a set of roles/characteristics that we assign to people... ie men wear suits, pants, women wear dresses. boys play with trucks, girls play with dolls. women wear makeup and heels. men hold the door open and enjoy watching sports. some of these gender roles (as decided by society) do have ties to sex... ie women being the caretaker of children (females produce breastmilk to nurture, men dont, etc). a lot of them like the other traits i laid out... dont. gender is an iden y... a sense of self. its not a physical characteristic. this is why not all trans people feel compelled to have bottom surgery done.

    but there are subsets of people who are not only transgender, but due to the incongruence with their sex and the gender assigned to them as a result of their sex, they feel discomfort or severe distress with that dichotomy, so they take varying levels of measures to align their bodily appearance with their gender iden y. some people just dress different and change their hair. some people get surgery on their chest. some people get bottom surgery. its not a requirement or anything, it depends on the individual

  21. #46
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    1. "effective treatment" should include telling the patient "you are absolutely not a ___ trapped in a ___'s body and should remain your birth gender. I will help you see what trauma etc led you to believe you should trans and help you remain birth bio gender."
    what is your basis for calling this effective treatment? i'd say the opposite. one of the, if not THE single largest contributing factor to a decrease in suicide risk for transgender teens is the acceptance of their close/immediate family.

    2. By the same token the suicide rate is not going DOWN after they get chopped and drugged.
    what is your source for this?

    So obviously their being coached, influenced to trans was wrong in how many cases?

    As the trans's who want to return to bio have said, all kinds of $$$$$ to be made by the pro trans influencers.
    i would say its generally problematic if somebody is coerced into a surgery they dont actually want, and physicians should always discuss risk of adverse events for any procedure. i dont believe there is proof that there is some massive industry behind this. there arent enough transgender people for this to be a lucrative thing.

  22. #47
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    To attain a recent measure of suicide risk, we asked participants if they had considered suicide in the past year, and whether they had attempted it. Consideration of suicide was common, and was reported by 35% of youth whosep arents were strongly supportive and 60% of those whose parents were not strongly supportive. Particularly alarming is that among this latter 60%, nearly all (57%) had actually attempted suicide in the past year. In contrast, only 4% of those with strongly supportive parents attempted suicide. While 4% is still far too high, the impact of strong parental support can be clearly seen in the 93% reduction in reported suicide attempts for youth who indicated their parents were strongly supportive of their gender iden y and expression.

    https://transpulseproject.ca/wp-cont...uth-vFINAL.pdf

  23. #48
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    i mean it kinda boils down to if you prefer transgender people to live and be happy or if you prefer we basically genocide them or eliminate their existence because you personally find them weird and icky

  24. #49
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    i mean it kinda boils down to if you prefer bio born people to live and be happy or if you prefer we basically genocide them or eliminate their existence because you personally find them weird and icky
    Fixed.

    Those filled with trans thoughts should be given access to competent care and people.
    The root causes of their considering tranny should be addressed.

  25. #50
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    what is your source for this?

    i would say its generally problematic if somebody is coerced into a surgery they dont actually want, and physicians should always discuss risk of adverse events for any procedure. i dont believe there is proof that there is some massive industry behind this. there arent enough transgender people for this to be a lucrative thing.
    Going from older to newer:
    FactCheck Q&A: was Lyle Shelton right about transgender people and a higher suicide risk after surgery? (theconversation.com)

    Verdict

    Shelton was correct to say that research shows that transgendered people who have had sex reassignment surgery had a suicide mortality rate later in life that was roughly 20 times higher than the non-transgendered population.

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