Latest Spurs Intel Following Deandre Ayton Returning to Suns

[baseline bum]

Poeltl will go to whoever gives him the most money. He hasn't had his big payday yet. There will be a lot of teams with cap space and a pretty mediocre free agent class. Together with the cap increase there'll be some eye-popping deals.

Which will probably be Brooklyn since they'd have his Bird Rights and are willing to spend.

[Ariel]

ok... you're taking it personal. I said that's all that's guaranteed (which is true). But no point in going back and forth when we've made our respective cases pretty clearly. Let's agree to disagree.

[exstatic]

It's the only thing they're guaranteed to get. Could they re-sign him? Sure. But the fact is, the contractual situation doesn't guarantee that, and pretending that isn't a factor is what's downright ridiculous.

If someone really wants Poeltl long term, he can be extended as part of the trade. That would up his value as a long term asset, though. They’d have to pay us more for a locked in asset.

[DPG21920]

McDermott's deal doesn't matter much, it's only $13.75 million. Not the kind of money I'd give up assets to get out of.

Agreed. Im saying I would be thrilled to consolidate that money into one year of WB though. Does it take priority? No, but it would be a very nice perk

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Which will probably be Brooklyn since they'd have his Bird Rights and are willing to spend.

Maybe, maybe not. But his bird rights won't mean anything when Sacramento comes for him with a 4/80 mil offer. Nets are projected to pay almost $100 mil in luxury tax alone this season, they're unlikely to find an overpriced Poeltl worth it.

Besides, there's more context there - Nets aren't trading Kyrie and keeping Durant. Their only chance to keep Durant would be to somehow convince them both to give it one more go. They're most likely trading both, starting with Durant first. Also Poeltl is a very bad fit with Simmons, if that dude ever plays basketball again, that is.

[baseline bum]

ok... you're taking it personal. I said that's all that's guaranteed (which is true). But no point in going back and forth when we've made our respective cases pretty clearly. Let's agree to disagree.

I think it's worth factoring in that Brooklyn is an extremely desirable destination with deep pockets to pay Poetl who will also probably be a le contender next season since I doubt Durant is going anywhere.

[scott]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be compe ive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

[baseline bum]

Maybe, maybe not. But his bird rights won't mean anything when Sacramento comes for him with a 4/80 mil offer. Nets are projected to pay almost $100 mil in luxury tax alone this season, they're unlikely to find an overpriced Poeltl worth it.

Besides, there's more context there - Nets aren't trading Kyrie and keeping Durant. Their only chance to keep Durant would be to somehow convince them both to give it one more go. They're most likely trading both, starting with Durant first. Also Poeltl is a very bad fit with Simmons, if that dude ever plays basketball again, that is.

Nets don't seem like they're trading Durant. Especially now with Ayton off the market which kills Phoenix's ability to make a move for him.

[baseline bum]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be compe ive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

Problem is they're not getting anything very useful with their late lottery picks when trying to half ass the rebuild. Vassell and Primo have both been disappointments so far and hard to see star potential in a guy who averaged 9 pg in Sochan also. This team desperately needs talent and top 5 picks are it's best chance.

[Leetonidas]

I don't mind the Spurs "helping" LA in this scenario. They've done a decent job of not having issues with Klutch so being in their good graces may be beneficial down the line

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Nets don't seem like they're trading Durant. Especially now with Ayton off the market which kills Phoenix's ability to make a move for him.

It's an entirely different topic but I doubt the Ayton situation has much to do with the Durant to Phoenix possibility. Ayton with his max contract is unlikely to be a desirable trade chip for Brooklyn. Durant to Phoenix is still just as likely as before, i.e. not much.

The Gobert trade has killed Durant's possible destinations.

[baseline bum]

It's an entirely different topic but I doubt the Ayton situation has much to do with the Durant to Phoenix possibility. Ayton with his max contract is unlikely to be a desirable trade chip for Brooklyn. Durant to Phoenix is still just as likely as before, i.e. not much.

The Gobert trade has killed Durant's possible destinations.

I think it's way less likely. Even though Brooklyn wanted no part of Ayton, he was the Suns' best asset in a 3 or 4 team deal. Bridges + Cam Johnson and crap matching salary plus picks isn't going to get it done.

[Seventyniner]

I don't share the Spurs' level of desire for completely unprotected picks. It's one thing to see Charlotte's 2023 pick as unideal. It's another to think getting a top-four protected first or a swapped pick like what Utah got for O'Neal as anathema. I get grabbing a couple in the future. I also get trying to stack some in 2023. But they shouldn't be trying to play the lotto in 2028 or whatever when they could get multiple bites in earlier years instead.

I agree.

Getting totally unprotected picks either requires pushing them out several years (increasing the risk in both directions) or getting one from a team who is so likely to be good in the year it conveys that they don't mind not protecting it.

Meanwhile, the Spurs specifically have a good chance of getting more value out of a 17th pick and a 21st pick than a 12th pick, for example. Even a late first counts as a bite at the apple.

[Robz4000]

Despite appearing to be fully committed to a rebuild, I'm afraid this rebuild still lacks coherence or a general direction.

The Spurs have mountains of cap space and are sellers for now, but being a seller requires a bit of luck. It requires needy buyers in order to maximize the value of what you're selling. Unfortunately for the Spurs, they appear to be sellers in a dry market and timvp's, intelligence points to having to sell low in order for us to affect our "plan".

With that said, I say "plan" because this is where the lack of coherence becomes obvious. We just drafted three promising rookies, and we appear in prime position for a top pick in next year's allegedly stacked draft (I use the term allegedly, because you never really know how any of these kids will pan out. We may look back and see that none or only a few of these touted prospects panned out. We also have an entire year of basketball to play for these prospects to get sorted out on a big board)... but we are simultaneously adding picks for well into the future. If we trade Jak/JRich/McD for some 2027 picks, you'll be left with a team of kids with no semblance of mentorship (regardless of whether these guys are the "right mentors") and a questionable development track. Effectively, at that point, you're looking at an extended rebuild where we *hope* to be compe ive again by the 2028/2029 seasons. By then, these three promising rookies, along with Keldon, Devin, Primo, etc. will have likely not panned out (due to lack of mentorship) or shipped off for even more future assets (because they don't fit the timeline) and the can just keeps getting kicked down the road while we sit around waiting for Superman.

Perhaps this is the only way, because of the (lack of) appeal of the San Antonio market. But it seems like there should be a better way that doesn't require a half decade+ of forever rebuilding. I get the sense that Brian Wright has gone into Presti-simulation mode where is playing a real life game of 2K where you simulate the season to just have fun in the offseason. This is also how you become a forever bad team, like the Kings.

All of my optimism over "picking a direction" is lost because the direction appears too broad and not strategically thought out. Despite $500 million invested in facilities, this is also how the story of a move to Austin (or somewhere else) is initially written. A team stuck in the gutter, slumping attendance in a market that can't attract players... $500 million becomes a minor sunk cost (much of which can be recouped as the real estate is repurposed into something else) in the big picture value of a move. It requires a Nelson Wolfe-level of naïveté to think the training complex is any kind of real guardrail against the Spurs eventual departure. The only thing that can stave this off is a compelling product on the way back to relevance. The FO doesn't appear to have fully fleshed out a strategy of how to achieve that.

Wouldn't shock me if the whole plan is to be stacked with assets in time for a move tbh. Being bad for the next decade to dissuade fan support makes it even easier.

[exstatic]

Problem is they're not getting anything very useful with their late lottery picks when trying to half ass the rebuild. Vassell and Primo have both been disappointments so far and hard to see star potential in a guy who averaged 9 pg in Sochan also. This team desperately needs talent and top 5 picks are it's best chance.

Devin Booker averaged 10 ppg at Kentucky, and was drafted at #13. If it were just about scoring, drafting would be easy. You’d just go down the NCAA scoring list. It ain’t that.

[KingKev]

If someone really wants Poeltl long term, he can be extended as part of the trade. That would up his value as a long term asset, though. They’d have to pay us more for a locked in asset.

His extension max probably isn’t in his best interest at 4yrs/60mm… better to explore FA.

[mo7888]

The Nets aren't going to take that while we get 2 unprotected FRPs for an expiring... maybe one unprotected pick + unprotected Lakers swap to Brooklyn, and one unprotected Lakers pick + a protected pick from the Nets (they have Philly's 2023 pick) to us... that would sound better.

I don't see a scenario where Brooklyn gets 2 real players and a young prospect + a pick for an expiring Kyrie...

[KingKev]

Bruh, we're talking about 'seasoned' players. I said that McDermott is one, easily. We're not talking about salaries or specific players. Jus tbecause you don't know what the you're talking about doesn't mean you get to change the subject.

I’d rather get off of McD’s contract if I can and bring in other vets on 1yr deals considering our cap situation. JRich has more value in a trade than holding him for mentorship and he probably wants to go win elsewhere anyways.

[rascal]

maybe

but to lose purtle and help the lakers for "maybe" 1 frp is just horrible - as some were saying

Either that or nothing. No guarantee there will be another offer for an unprotected FRP for Poeltl.

[poopbox]

Am I reading this correctly? It's suggesting the Spurs would be willing to trade away Poeltl and Richardson in addition to absorbing Westbrook in exchange for a single unprotected pick. For me, that's not okay. The only way it's a little acceptable if it's Richardson, McDermott, Poeltl and Langford for Westbrook and the pick AFTER the Spurs are able to use their cap space to acquire even more picks. The idea of trading away valuable players and cap space for such a minor return just wouldn't sit right with me.

Valuable player? We have bottom 5 nba talent right now. We might legit be the worst team in the entire nba. No such thing as a "valuable player" on this roster.

[Spurs Homer]

Either that or nothing. No guarantee there will be another offer for an unprotected FRP for Poeltl.

then keep him!

not a bad player at all - there are many worse centers in the nba - especially considering the salaries -

[cd98]

The thing about unprotected picks is not just that it is an opportunity no matter how small to get a surprise lottery pick, it’s also that it actually conveys that year and isn’t continually kicked down the road and potentially turning into a second round pick. Even if Atlanta picks aren’t lottery, we know we are getting an extra pick those years and bc they are unprotected, they are good trade assets should the Spurs be in the market for a star.

[cd98]

Do people think Vassel is a disappointment? I think he’s improving every year and while it’s debatable if he can be the 2nd or 3 rd best player on a good team, I think he’s a good piece for a good team. But I think he has 3D star potential.

[KingKev]

Do people think Vassel is a disappointment? I think he’s improving every year and while it’s debatable if he can be the 2nd or 3 rd best player on a good team, I think he’s a good piece for a good team. But I think he has 3D star potential.

2nd or 3rd best player is a pipe dream based in what we have seen so far but his progress has been adequate, he was a fair pick at 12 will probably have a long career in the NBA.

[Ariel]

I don't see a scenario where Brooklyn gets 2 real players and a young prospect + a pick for an expiring Kyrie...

Poeltl and Richardson are also expiring, and if by young prospect you mean Langford, all indications are that he's nothing but dead weight for the Spurs... no one expects him to contribute or else you'd have seen him in summer league at least. So basically he's in there as a salary filler with negative value, not an asset. That for someone who proved he can be the second best player on a championship team, is almost ridiculously low value. The only reason the Nets might take that is because:
1) Lakers will need to add draft capital
2) They have no choice, he's a nutcase with no other market and they'll lose him in a year for nothing.
Other than that he'd command significantly more than that. In this case, getting his Bird rights actually are extremely important because that almost guarantees you'll get him long term.