Manu Ginobili vs Gilbert Arenas

[rascal]

The Spurs may have won more les with Arenas instead of Manu.

[KingKev]

You swap Manu for Arenas or Crawford and the Spurs still ring.

Not that simple but a simple player swap in O3, 05, 07 probably.

[R. DeMurre]

If you look at advanced stats, it's not even remotely close. Crawford had a negative career BPM, an upside down 106/113 career ORtg/DRtg, and a career negative +/- on/off. Manu was a monster in all of those categories. Manu's impact was greater than that of many so-called superstars, and Crawford's impact was exactly what you'd expect for a traditional 6th man. Manu was never a liability on D, but Crawford had 21 seasons in a row where he was. Gilbert Arenas generally has terrible takes on basketball.

[couchman]

These idiots don't understand what winning team basketball is about.
They get lost in their idea of what 1on1 ability is, and forget defense, rebounding, passing, and all of the little dirty work that wins games and les.
Manu could have been an all time leading scorer if he had focused on that alone, like these fools did. Instead he got rings and immortal glory.

Manu is one of the top 25 playoff VORP performers OF ALL TIME.
https://www.basketball-reference.com..._career_p.html

He is also top 40 ALL TIME in regular season VORP.
https://www.basketball-reference.com...rp_career.html

Pick any decent advanced metrics for career and it is easy to see why Manu is one of the all time greats.
One last thing. I don't think the Spurs win the 2005 le if you swap Arenas and Manu. Manu was a beast in that series, not just scoring but rebounding, assists, and steals.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Not that simple but a simple player swap in O3, 05, 07 probably.

Pistons would have 4 championships.

[KingKev]

Pistons would have 4 championships.

Cue the advanced analytics crew who work in the HR department. What would those players advanced analytics look like for JC, GA playing on those Spurs teams.

I’m not taking anything away from Manu as he is the better player and a two way player.

[DMC]

As usual I completely disagree with you. Manu sacrificed statistics when he came off the bench to be everything our team needed him to be. If he started somewhere else he would have had much more glamorous stats and been way more widely talked about throughout his prime.

Not sure who you're disagreeing with but that wasn't ducks' take, it was copypasta from some sports website.

[DAF86]

Manu put those stats up because he was the 6 man
If he was a starter the whole time his stats would not be as good as they were

He was special because he gave 150 percent on court he knew he could with the minutes he played

Manu played more games as a starter than as a reserve only two years in his career. Both seasons he made the all-star game. Do you think that's coincidence?

[DAF86]

First of all, listening to anything Gilbert Arenas has to say is usually a mistake. That guy is a bonehead if there ever was one.

Secondly, this is where Manu sacrificing his stats and coming off the bench will always hurt his "legacy".

If Manu played for any other team and was a starter and played 35 mins a game, he would be just as highly regarded as Crawford or Arenas or whoever you want to put on the list.

He also would have probably won less rings, and his career would have been half as long with his style of play.

At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure Manu rests easy knowing he contributed to four les, an Olympic gold medal, and was solidly one third of one of the best trios in NBA history.

You started off well but then made that paragraph.

Manu is already regarded more highly than Arenas and Crawford by anyone with a functional set of eyes and brain. If Manu had the chance of being the number one option on a team he would be placed among the Nowitzkis, Garnetts, etc. In the second group of franchise players just behind the true great ones like Lebron, Duncan, etc. Ahead of lesser franchise players like Iverson, Nash, Kidd, etc.

That's how good Manu really was. Too bad even some Spurs fans don't realize it.

[DAF86]

You swap Manu for Arenas or Crawford and the Spurs still ring.

The Detroit Pistons would like to take that bet.

[DAF86]

Not that simple but a simple player swap in O3, 05, 07 probably.

How the heck are they winning in '05 when Manu was the Spurs best player during that entire playoffs run and they needed every bit of him to outlast the Pistons in 7?

Swap Manu and Crawford in 2005 and the Pistons beat the Spurs in 5 like they did with Kobe and the Lakers the previous year.

[DAF86]

Cue the advanced analytics crew who work in the HR department. What would those players advanced analytics look like for JC, GA playing on those Spurs teams.

I’m not taking anything away from Manu as he is the better player and a two way player.

Probably right about the same, if not worse. That's why they are called "advanced stats". Some of them take into considerstion compe ion and the team you have around.

If you don't believe me, just go ahead and check the advanced stats of Richard jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge, DeMar DeRozan and every fringe all-star before and after joining the Spurs.

[Leetonidas]

The Spurs would not win with Areans in Manus place. Lmao at even comparing him to Crawford

[cd98]

It's kind of silly logic of who could beat who one-on-one when it comes to NBA players. Crawford had a great NBA career so no disrespect to him. But I mean two NBA players playing one on one? My guess is that they beat each other many times over. One on one is a different game than a 5 on 5 game and one on one, I would imagine that most NBA greats would just trade baskets.

That said, I think Manu was a better defender and I don't think Crawford could stop Manu drives. But let's be honest, it takes a team defense to stop both of these guys. One on one either of these guys are going to mostly score at will.

[Dex]

You started off well but then made that paragraph.

Manu is already regarded more highly than Arenas and Crawford by anyone with a functional set of eyes and brain. If Manu had the chance of being the number one option on a team he would be placed among the Nowitzkis, Garnetts, etc. In the second group of franchise players just behind the true great ones like Lebron, Duncan, etc. Ahead of lesser franchise players like Iverson, Nash, Kidd, etc.

That's how good Manu really was. Too bad even some Spurs fans don't realize it.

I only brought up Crawford or Arenas because those were the two people brought up in this post.

I love Manu as much as any Spurs fan...I own his jerseys, I went to his retirement ceremony, etc.

I also don't think he would as high as a Nowitzki, Garnett, or Nash even with more opportunity. Just real talk.

[KingKev]

It's kind of silly logic of who could beat who one-on-one when it comes to NBA players. Crawford had a great NBA career so no disrespect to him. But I mean two NBA players playing one on one? My guess is that they beat each other many times over. One on one is a different game than a 5 on 5 game and one on one, I would imagine that most NBA greats would just trade baskets.

That said, I think Manu was a better defender and I don't think Crawford could stop Manu drives. But let's be honest, it takes a team defense to stop both of these guys. One on one either of these guys are going to mostly score at will.

There is also very big difference between the blacktop and the hardtop. Ginobilli is easily the better player between all 3, especially over the course of a career but Gilbert Arenas boneheadedness aside, he was an elite scorer during his prime.

[ambchang]

For some reason, Ginobili has the higher points per 36 mins and points per 100 possessions in his best season than Crawford did, and Crawford's job was to score and do nothing else. Not sure how that better 1 on 1 thing came from.

[cd98]

The player that I would comp with Manu in terms of great player would be Ray Allen. I think Manu could have had a Ray Allen career if he was a starter. Not that they played exactly the same way, but in terms of their stature in the game.

[cd98]

There is also very big difference between the blacktop and the hardtop. Ginobilli is easily the better player between all 3, especially over the course of a career but Gilbert Arenas boneheadedness aside, he was an elite scorer during his prime.

I agree that Gilbert Arenas was a great player, who's career was cut short by a bad injury and getting a gun to shoot a teammate over a gambling debt. But in terms of playing a one on one game, you can be a great scorer, but one on one, so is Manu. It literally would just be great players trading baskets. Who wins? Well they could play ten times and they would split it. I just don't think that tells you who is better. I mean, if the standard is who can score more points in a game, there are a lot of factors, including who the primary scorer is on a team, how the offense is run, the pace, and use of the three point line. Just a lot of variables, but career scoring wise, Manu will get bested by those during the regular season. My guess is that he has scored more points in the playoffs, but then again, he was in the playoffs a lot and the other guys, not nearly as much.

[DAF86]

I only brought up Crawford or Arenas because those were the two people brought up in this post.

I love Manu as much as any Spurs fan...I own his jerseys, I went to his retirement ceremony, etc.

I also don't think he would as high as a Nowitzki, Garnett, or Nash even with more opportunity. Just real talk.

Put Manu on those mid 2000's SSOL Suns and he's Harden before Harden, but being a better leader, more clutch and playing defense.

[heyheymymy]

East was insanely weak back then too and Gilbert still didn't do enough, swap him into the West and you'd see how fools gold Gilbert would be compared to Manu

[weebo]

Kirvy Bryan talking about Manu in Kobe Doin' Work: "That's a bad boy right there. I have so much respect for his game. He's an incredible compe or."
Did Crawlfort ever get that kinda of love?

[Proxy]

How the heck are they winning in '05 when Manu was the Spurs best player during that entire playoffs run and they needed every bit of him to outlast the Pistons in 7?

Swap Manu and Crawford in 2005 and the Pistons beat the Spurs in 5 like they did with Kobe and the Lakers the previous year.

yeah there's no way either swap would cut into that Pistons D like Manu did

[KingKev]

dumbass shot himself in the foot

You sure?

[lefty20]

You sure?

Not in the Plexcio Burres sense. More like he shot his career in the foot by being a ing idiot.