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  1. #26
    Dragon style JamStone's Avatar
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    But less teams = more difficult to get a pro contract = only the best players made it in the NBA back then

    Isn't it supposed to be better than a league diluted by expansion?
    Nice argument in theory. Not so good argument in reality.

    The pool of worthy candidates who wanted to play basketball as a career wasn’t as deep or as rich in talent as it is now. Not even talking about globally, just across sports in general. Basketball wasn’t the sport in the 1960s it is now, drawing the interest of the best athletes. The better athletes were still playing baseball and football before basketball, the best jumpers and sprinters still running tracking and field.

    If you want to say only the best players played in the league because it was a smaller league, there’s probably some truth to it. I’d argue the best players back then weren’t anywhere near the standard of basketball talent nor the wealth of talent there is now. So it made less of a difference that there were few per roster spots. It’s how you look at it.

  2. #27
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Nice argument in theory. Not so good argument in reality.

    The pool of worthy candidates who wanted to play basketball as a career wasn’t as deep or as rich in talent as it is now. Not even talking about globally, just across sports in general. Basketball wasn’t the sport in the 1960s it is now, drawing the interest of the best athletes. The better athletes were still playing baseball and football before basketball, the best jumpers and sprinters still running tracking and field.

    If you want to say only the best players played in the league because it was a smaller league, there’s probably some truth to it. I’d argue the best players back then weren’t anywhere near the standard of basketball talent nor the wealth of talent there is now. So it made less of a difference that there were few per roster spots. It’s how you look at it.
    Good point

  3. #28
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Russell was an elite athlete back in the day and with training can be better in todays game. He also started late (university or so when he started to blossom). He was also very smart in his approach.

    He’s probably still be an elite defender in todays game and be a nightmare on the roll along with great passing. Likely a billionaires bam adebayo.

  4. #29
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Laker Phans beak clogged with peanut butter, being unable to attempt the usual parroting.

    "But but but Bill Russell didn't wear a burqa as styling as Kobme."

  5. #30
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    Laker Phans beak clogged with peanut butter, being unable to attempt the usual parroting.

    "But but but Bill Russell didn't wear a burqa as styling as Kobme."
    He was a who could dish it, but could not take it. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

  6. #31
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Bill clearly would have developed a killer Corner 3

    I see Rasheed with more discipline and IQ

  7. #32
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    People today have no ability to use reference, they only know what they have today. The lightbulb and airplane weren't great inventions, they weren't even close to what we have today.

  8. #33
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Bill clearly would have developed a killer Corner 3

    I see Rasheed with more discipline and IQ
    no

    he shot 43% while playing close to the basket

  9. #34
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    no

    he shot 43% while playing close to the basket
    Bill turns around and he's looking at Wilt the Stilt and other herteros on D.

    Todays NBA center turns around and sees Gaymond Green and a ref spooning.

  10. #35
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    no

    he shot 43% while playing close to the basket
    > Winner at every level he played

    Wouldn't be able to adapt?

  11. #36
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    > Winner at every level he played

    Wouldn't be able to adapt?
    By God, he stood sentinel with Auerbach, Heinsohn, CBS color man 9 June 1985 as the Lakers broke thru in Boston.


  12. #37
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    > Winner at every level he played

    Wouldn't be able to adapt?
    Never had to adapt his game or improve his offense.

    What evidence is there that he would be able to?

    He won 11 les shooting worse than Kobe from the field as an athletic 6'10 guy shooting close to the rim. Yes, you read that correctly. Shot worse than Kobe from the field.

  13. #38
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    He won 11 les shooting worse than Kobe from the field as an athletic 6'10 guy shooting close to the rim. Yes, you read that correctly. Shot worse than Kobe from the field.
    Pathetic comparison.
    Kobmes % was massively inflated by all the times he shot yet another All Time Record Brick but the shot attempt was erased by Laker Ref.

    Besides, players have had more time to study jump shooting, advanced weight lifting etc.
    Sure a young Bill Russell would tap into all the advantages a modern day player has.

    FOH

  14. #39
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    Lol the Kobe reference was to emphasize how poorly Russell shot from the field. Ignore the Kobe reference if you want. Is a career 44.0% field goal percentage (43.0% in the playoffs) good for a 6'10 center who took most of his shots at or near the rim? Especially a 6'10 center who was particularly athletic for his era and compe ion?

    Wilt shot 54.0% from the field for his career. Walt Bellamy 51.6% from the field for his career. Russell was at best an average big man scorer in an era where physically he should have dominated pretty much every opponent at the rim other than Wilt. Why would you pardon significantly inefficient scoring by Russell? Isn't he in the conversation of greatest ever? Why be lenient on greatness standards with him?

    Russell can have all the study time he wants. Don't you think guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard studied and practiced how to shoot? Why were they never good at it? Some players, even all time great ones, just don't improve offensively. No matter how much they study, how much they work, how much they practice. Why assume Russell could have just flipped the switch and become a good scorer in the modern game? And even if he were to take advantage of modern technology, what do you think that takes away from? His work and practice on his defensive craft. All of a sudden, a guy who was a generational talent defensively is merely a pretty good defender and an average offensive player. And what kind of player does he go down in NBA history as then?

    Assuming Bill Russell in today's era would just simply become an efficient scorer and/or good jump shooter is naive, if not point blank foolish.

  15. #40
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Lol the Kobe reference was to emphasize how poorly Russell shot from the field. Ignore the Kobe reference if you want. Is a career 44.0% field goal percentage (43.0% in the playoffs) good for a 6'10 center who took most of his shots at or near the rim? Especially a 6'10 center who was particularly athletic for his era and compe ion?

    Wilt shot 54.0% from the field for his career. Walt Bellamy 51.6% from the field for his career. Russell was at best an average big man scorer in an era where physically he should have dominated pretty much every opponent at the rim other than Wilt. Why would you pardon significantly inefficient scoring by Russell? Isn't he in the conversation of greatest ever? Why be lenient on greatness standards with him?

    Russell can have all the study time he wants. Don't you think guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard studied and practiced how to shoot? Why were they never good at it? Some players, even all time great ones, just don't improve offensively. No matter how much they study, how much they work, how much they practice. Why assume Russell could have just flipped the switch and become a good scorer in the modern game? And even if he were to take advantage of modern technology, what do you think that takes away from? His work and practice on his defensive craft. All of a sudden, a guy who was a generational talent defensively is merely a pretty good defender and an average offensive player. And what kind of player does he go down in NBA history as then?

    Assuming Bill Russell in today's era would just simply become an efficient scorer and/or good jump shooter is naive, if not point blank foolish.

  16. #41
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Russell can have all the study time he wants. Don't you think guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard studied and practiced how to shoot? Why were they never good at it? .
    not making the case in one way or another for Bill but here you took two of worst examples possible. Howard had no work ethic whatsoever, he never studied anything. As for Shaq I would not go that far but he is kind known to not be the biggest gym rat of the place tbf

  17. #42
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    Fine. I took physically athletically gifted bigs who are HoF caliber or close to it, in Dwight's case. That's the comparison. But ok.

    Why isn't defensive great Rudy Gobert a three point sharpshooter? Why can't Giannis, one of the hardest workers in the league, be a competent three point shooter?

    You can't assume that Bill Russell becomes a better or more efficient offensive player simply by being born later and playing in this era.

  18. #43
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Fine. I took physically athletically gifted bigs who are HoF caliber or close to it, in Dwight's case. That's the comparison. But ok.

    Why isn't defensive great Rudy Gobert a three point sharpshooter? Why can't Giannis, one of the hardest workers in the league, be a competent three point shooter?

    You can't assume that Bill Russell becomes a better or more efficient offensive player simply by being born later and playing in this era.
    I don't disagree with that tbh... Bill was first and foremost a defensive stronghold, I don't believe he has ever focused on his offense or never cared for that.

    He was a team first player, there is a reason why he was a big Duncan fan.

    His achievements are undeniable I believe he is correctly ranked and considered tbh... Nobody put him in top 5 of all time anyway.

  19. #44
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Fine. I took physically athletically gifted bigs who are HoF caliber or close to it, in Dwight's case. That's the comparison. But ok.

    Why isn't defensive great Rudy Gobert a three point sharpshooter? Why can't Giannis, one of the hardest workers in the league, be a competent three point shooter
    It can't be assumed Bill would be better or worse in todays NBA.
    He was guarded by heterosexual Centers like Nate Thurmond, Wilt the Stilt, Willis Reed and Wes Unseld. All HOF players and Bill had to face them on the regular with only 8 teams. Contrast that with some of todays NBA centers.

    That Bill was team and defense 1st should in no way shape or form be taken as points off.
    So he needed to get better on offense, i predict he would. We'll never know. Or would he have some Beautiful Game teams like Timmy Duncan was foundation of?

    Timmy Duncs PF with Bill Russell playing center. I like it.

  20. #45
    notthewordsofonewhokneels Thread's Avatar
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    By God, he stood sentinel with Auerbach, Heinsohn, CBS color man 9 June 1985 as the Lakers broke thru in Boston.


  21. #46
    Veteran Isitjustme?'s Avatar
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    By God, he stood sentinel with Auerbach, Heinsohn, CBS color man 9 June 1985 as the Lakers broke thru in Boston.

    You guys took him to the wedshood nary a single time when he played.

    Let us proceed...

  22. #47
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Bill turns around and he's looking at Wilt the Stilt and other herteros on D.

    Todays NBA center turns around and sees Gaymond Green and a ref spooning.

  23. #48
    I'll tumble for ya Chris Fall's Avatar
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    It can't be assumed Bill would be better or worse in todays NBA.
    He was guarded by heterosexual Centers like Nate Thurmond, Wilt the Stilt, Willis Reed and Wes Unseld. All HOF players and Bill had to face them on the regular with only 8 teams. Contrast that with some of todays NBA centers.

    That Bill was team and defense 1st should in no way shape or form be taken as points off.
    So he needed to get better on offense, i predict he would. We'll never know. Or would he have some Beautiful Game teams like Timmy Duncan was foundation of?

    Timmy Duncs PF with Bill Russell playing center. I like it.
    Lol Russell and Wes Unseld played in the NBA at the same time for one season. One. Season. The times Russell faced the Knicks when Reed was there, Reed was playing PF. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story. Nate Thurmond would be ing Hassan Whiteside in today's league. Wtf are some fans so nostalgically moronic? Wth does Russell's compe ion have to do with him shooting at a 44.0% clip for his career from the field? Isnt he in the discussion for goat? That's a percentage any other guy in the same goat discussion would get bashed for. Imagine other top 10 guys like Kareem, Wilt, Michael, LeBron, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq shooting 44% from the field for their CAREERS, and noone criticizing it. Unbelievable.

    It's not points off Russell for being team and defense first. It's points off for being an inefficient scorer. How the do you ignore that? You can be team and defense first and still not suck at the offensive end, especially when you're taking almost all your shots at or near the rim. It's just plain willing and voluntary stupidity on your part that you won't acknowledge it, even more so that you're trying to defend and justify it.

    You predict that Russell would have improved on offense. Based on what? He played 13 seasons. Never improved from the field. Never improved at the free throw line. What the is your prediction that he'd improve based on? Your erection over the fact Bill Russell "liked" Tim Duncan? You can't assume either way. So you have to base it on what type of player he was when he played. He never improved offensively. So your argument makes even less sense than your inaccurate, nonfactual examples of his compe ion back then.

    Holy , you make some stupid ing arguments.

  24. #49
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    Lol Russell and Wes Unseld played in the NBA at the same time for one season. One. Season. The times Russell faced the Knicks when Reed was there, Reed was playing PF. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story. Nate Thurmond would be ing Hassan Whiteside in today's league. Wtf are some fans so nostalgically moronic? Wth does Russell's compe ion have to do with him shooting at a 44.0% clip for his career from the field? Isnt he in the discussion for goat? That's a percentage any other guy in the same goat discussion would get bashed for. Imagine other top 10 guys like Kareem, Wilt, Michael, LeBron, Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq shooting 44% from the field for their CAREERS, and noone criticizing it. Unbelievable.

    It's not points off Russell for being team and defense first. It's points off for being an inefficient scorer. How the do you ignore that? You can be team and defense first and still not suck at the offensive end, especially when you're taking almost all your shots at or near the rim. It's just plain willing and voluntary stupidity on your part that you won't acknowledge it, even more so that you're trying to defend and justify it.

    You predict that Russell would have improved on offense. Based on what? He played 13 seasons. Never improved from the field. Never improved at the free throw line. What the is your prediction that he'd improve based on? Your erection over the fact Bill Russell "liked" Tim Duncan? You can't assume either way. So you have to base it on what type of player he was when he played. He never improved offensively. So your argument makes even less sense than your inaccurate, nonfactual examples of his compe ion back then.

    Holy , you make some stupid ing arguments.

  25. #50
    Got Woke? DMC's Avatar
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    Lol the Kobe reference was to emphasize how poorly Russell shot from the field. Ignore the Kobe reference if you want. Is a career 44.0% field goal percentage (43.0% in the playoffs) good for a 6'10 center who took most of his shots at or near the rim? Especially a 6'10 center who was particularly athletic for his era and compe ion?

    Wilt shot 54.0% from the field for his career. Walt Bellamy 51.6% from the field for his career. Russell was at best an average big man scorer in an era where physically he should have dominated pretty much every opponent at the rim other than Wilt. Why would you pardon significantly inefficient scoring by Russell? Isn't he in the conversation of greatest ever? Why be lenient on greatness standards with him?

    Russell can have all the study time he wants. Don't you think guys like Shaq and Dwight Howard studied and practiced how to shoot? Why were they never good at it? Some players, even all time great ones, just don't improve offensively. No matter how much they study, how much they work, how much they practice. Why assume Russell could have just flipped the switch and become a good scorer in the modern game? And even if he were to take advantage of modern technology, what do you think that takes away from? His work and practice on his defensive craft. All of a sudden, a guy who was a generational talent defensively is merely a pretty good defender and an average offensive player. And what kind of player does he go down in NBA history as then?

    Assuming Bill Russell in today's era would just simply become an efficient scorer and/or good jump shooter is naive, if not point blank foolish.
    This is true, and if study was all that was needed we'd have thousands of knock down 3pt shooters in the country. There's a reason people like Giannis and Klay end up where they do - they focus on their strengths because focusing on their weaknesses instead might not be good enough to get them into the NBA.

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