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  1. #151
    half man half amazing
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    Let it be known that there are homers on here who think it is only tanking when other teams do it. When the Spurs purposely field a bad team and try to trade away their good players, it’s “rebuilding”.

  2. #152
    Manu Mania lefty20's Avatar
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    Yeah idk why we're splitting hairs here.

    It's obvious to everyone, including Pop, that Spurs are gonna lose a ton of games this year. Call it what you want, all that matters is that this season is likely to result in the highest pick we've had since '97.

  3. #153
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    He's light years away in terms of handles from Ben Simmons and he's not as athletic, and those 2 things are not likely to change that drastically. His passing and overall feel for the game is great, though. Ithink a more realistic ceiling is a combo of Draymond Green & Boris Diaw.
    Think youll be surprised theyre much closer than you think. Ive seen dribbling videos of Sochan doing crossovers and between the leg stuff and it looks effortless.

    I'm telling you that your perception of him is off on his handle.

  4. #154
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    Ben is a natural point guard big dog…… Sochan is not.

  5. #155
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    Sochan is a hard one to predict. We haven't seen him play in the summer league and his game is said to be unique. Rookie Diaw was athletic as all . Sochan isn't athletic. His true position is unknown. His corner 3 is unknown. Usually rookie defenders are not good even when they are drafted for defense. Is he a Kyle Anderson with more upside and swagger? We don't know. Cannot wait to see how he plays.

  6. #156
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Ben is a natural point guard big dog…… Sochan is not.
    Understand. But sometimes people surprise you. You know what surprised me about his game? His handle and passing ability. I am a fairly good judge of talent and am not normally far off on projecting someone's long term contributions. He could develop into a ball handling big...perhaps not ever as a full time Point Forward like Ben, but he has the talent to bring the ball up the floor and facilitate an offense from time to time undoubtedly.

  7. #157
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    Would love to see Sochan get some Point Forward opportunities. His handles are equal to or better now than Primo's prior to his rookie year. Plus, he appears to be a much better passer and has better vision. I've said before, but my dream is that Sochan is Ben Simmons, Jr. I know he certainly didn't play that in college but his court vision reminds me of Simmons.
    Sochan is more "connector" than point forward.

    It'll be difficult enough to play him next to Poeltl and untenable if (when?) Jones starts too.

  8. #158
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    IMO, I think a lot of things about Sochan is better than advertised. I think, even after watching countless hours of his college tape, that it’s still not simple to forecast his NBA role. If people looked at DBook coming out of college— they would say microwave scorer, not number 1 option on offense.

    I’ll give it 15 regular season games then we’ll know what Sochan is all about.

    My personal opinion is that he has a better handle than he’s credited for. Not (yet? ever?) on the level of a primary or secondary facilitator, but enough to be a potential scoring threat if he adds new ways to score. I think he’s more of a natural ball handler than KJ, for example. Again, I could be way off. I’m not stuck to this perception and am very willing to wait and see how the first 15 games goes.
    Last edited by Dejounte; 09-28-2022 at 04:42 AM.

  9. #159
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    On the other hand, if Sochan’s help defense IS as good as advertised then the improvement on the team’s overall defense would be monumental. If lack of a real go to scorer was last year’s #1 weakness, then #2 was help defense. Opposing teams would often have easy buckets against Poeltl because none of his teammates offered support. Sochan’s IQ to stop a play before it happens will be huge for the team. I don’t think people really understand how many losses resulted from that.

    and also, it’s a ridiculous assertion to say that last year’s team was near full health for most of the season and that could be so easy to debunk as easy as it was to debunk the myth that they were one of the worst defensive teams of the year. I don’t know why something like that gets repeated over and over but people cling to their perceptions so hard that it’s hard to change their minds even when confronted with facts.

    Primary parts of last year’s team:
    Poeltl
    Murray
    Keldon
    White

    Poeltl - out for 14 games. Team’s best interior defender and arguably the reason for holding the defense together. Was replaced by Eubanks who had no business being a starter.
    Murray - also out for 14 games
    Keldon - was pretty much an iron man last season. No comment here.
    White - though he was traded, he was a big part of the offense and was replaced by players who weren’t accustomed to playing starter minutes/ playing with the other starters. A shake-up messes with the synergy on both ends.

    arguably McDermott - he missed 31 games. though he faces heavy criticism, he was intended to be the starter all year long and provided balance to the starters by being the only other guy aside from Keldon (who didn’t start off as a great 3 pt shooter) that was a reliable shooter. White was an awful shooter all year long.

  10. #160
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    On the other hand, if Sochan’s help defense IS as good as advertised then the improvement on the team’s overall defense would be monumental. If lack of a real go to scorer was last year’s #1 weakness, then #2 was help defense. Opposing teams would often have easy buckets against Poeltl because none of his teammates offered support. Sochan’s IQ to stop a play before it happens will be huge for the team. I don’t think people really understand how many losses resulted from that.

    and also, it’s a ridiculous assertion to say that last year’s team was near full health for most of the season and that could be so easy to debunk as easy as it was to debunk the myth that they were one of the worst defensive teams of the year. I don’t know why something like that gets repeated over and over but people cling to their perceptions so hard that it’s hard to change their minds even when confronted with facts.

    Primary parts of last year’s team:
    Poeltl
    Murray
    Keldon
    White

    Poeltl - out for 14 games. Team’s best interior defender and arguably the reason for holding the defense together. Was replaced by Eubanks who had no business being a starter.
    Murray - also out for 14 games
    Keldon - was pretty much an iron man last season. No comment here.
    White - though he was traded, he was a big part of the offense and was replaced by players who weren’t accustomed to playing starter minutes/ playing with the other starters. A shake-up messes with the synergy on both ends.

    arguably McDermott - he missed 31 games. though he faces heavy criticism, he was intended to be the starter all year long and provided balance to the starters by being the only other guy aside from Keldon (who didn’t start off as a great 3 pt shooter) that was a reliable shooter. White was an awful shooter all year long.
    I’ll concede on the defense but having two main players out for about 15% of the season is pretty damn good health in both absolute and relative terms for today’s NBA and especially during a period with strict covid protocols. We will be fortunate to replicate that this season.

  11. #161
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    Since we tanking I am surprised we didn't bring back an all time tank commander like Forbes tbh

  12. #162
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    Let it be known that there are homers on here who think it is only tanking when other teams do it. When the Spurs purposely field a bad team and try to trade away their good players, it’s “rebuilding”.
    I won't say with certainty what the Spurs are or aren't doing - but it's IMO clearly closer to a rebuild than it is to a tank.

    And you'll very quickly realize the difference once the Spurs start playing against actually tanking teams. Hope you don't join the B&M'g over them "not tanking hard enough" once that happens, tbh.

  13. #163
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    Sochan reminds me of a taller version of keldon johnson. His high arch release, dribble penetration and strong inside scoring.

  14. #164
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    I won't say with certainty what the Spurs are or aren't doing - but it's IMO clearly closer to a rebuild than it is to a tank.

    And you'll very quickly realize the difference once the Spurs start playing against actually tanking teams. Hope you don't join the B&M'g over them "not tanking hard enough" once that happens, tbh.
    There’s no need for these wishy washy definitions. If you can predict a team will have a bottom three record before the season even starts, the team is tanking. There is zero chance the spurs are not a bottom 3 team this year. They’ll guarantee it by shipping off poetlt before the season is over. There’s no need to pull an okc maneuver because the spurs don’t have anyone close to the level of SGA, thanks to decisions by the tanking front office

  15. #165
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    There’s no need for these wishy washy definitions. If you can predict a team will have a bottom three record before the season even starts, the team is tanking. There is zero chance the spurs are not a bottom 3 team this year. They’ll guarantee it by shipping off poetlt before the season is over. There’s no need to pull an okc maneuver because the spurs don’t have anyone close to the level of SGA, thanks to decisions by the tanking front office
    There will be teams that will pull the plug at or around the deadline, shutting down healthy players. The Spurs won’t do that. Even if they’re in the bottom 3 at that time, those 2-3 teams could easily slip behind them.

  16. #166
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    There will be teams that will pull the plug at or around the deadline, shutting down healthy players. The Spurs won’t do that. Even if they’re in the bottom 3 at that time, those 2-3 teams could easily slip behind them.
    Yep, for better or worse this is the truth. We’ve already sacrificed 3 lotteries and netted Primo, Vassell and Sochan. This is not a winning strategy.

  17. #167
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    We may (er. scratch that) WILL lose a lot of games, but it won't be because Pop pulls players in order to lose. They don't teach that sort of character at the Air Force Academy. It will be because they simply don't have the horses to compete with most teams in the league. There will be folks on this platform that scream because Pop will continue to ask the players to play hard up to the limits of thier ability in the latter stages of games--and they might just steal a game or two.

  18. #168
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    We may (er. scratch that) WILL lose a lot of games, but it won't be because Pop pulls players in order to lose. They don't teach that sort of character at the Air Force Academy. It will be because they simply don't have the horses to compete with most teams in the league. There will be folks on this platform that scream because Pop will continue to ask the players to play hard up to the limits of thier ability in the latter stages of games--and they might just steal a game or two.
    Unfortunately this time it won't be enough, because many teams will do anything short of putting the ball in their own hoop to lose games. Utah tops the list, but OKC will sideline SGA for months with a sore eyelash if they have to, and Houston, Indiana and Orlando will likely follow, plus whichever team finds themselves behind by midseason. Being the 7th/8th worst record gives you about half the odds at Wembanyama / Henderson than being a bottom 3 team does, and this time around they'll have to get their hands dirty if they want to make things happen. The good old "we tried hard but came up short" will not suffice.

  19. #169
    Veteran illusioNtEk's Avatar
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    Dennis Rodman 2.0?

  20. #170
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    IMO, I think a lot of things about Sochan is better than advertised. I think, even after watching countless hours of his college tape, that it’s still not simple to forecast his NBA role. If people looked at DBook coming out of college— they would say microwave scorer, not number 1 option on offense.

    I’ll give it 15 regular season games then we’ll know what Sochan is all about.

    My personal opinion is that he has a better handle than he’s credited for. Not (yet? ever?) on the level of a primary or secondary facilitator, but enough to be a potential scoring threat if he adds new ways to score. I think he’s more of a natural ball handler than KJ, for example. Again, I could be way off. I’m not stuck to this perception and am very willing to wait and see how the first 15 games goes.
    No
    Sochan 1.0- whatever that may be
    Rodman was never a great help defender and would probably struggle in todays NBA where that is really needed. Also as mentioned above he flashes potential as a facilitator.
    I don't regularly watch college ball, but his highlights and his short stent on Sunday are really intriguing.
    Hard to peg down what he ends up being- or he may just end up be a very good player who is hard to categorize.

  21. #171
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    With Sochan, he's definitely active on defense. And that chase down block was very impressive; I think he has at the least functional athleticism. Or he just really hates Josh Christopher. He blocked him three times in that first preseason game. Anyway, he doesn't seem overwhelmed by the moment or back down from challenges as far as I can tell, though I heard a podcaster complain about that because evidently Jabari gave him an elbow in the first preseason game and Sochan didn't respond, or something.

    Anyway, the guy is not afraid, which I guess should have been evident by his hair style. He could quickly become a leader on the team, as odd as that sounds, given the complete void of leadership that presently exists.

  22. #172
    half man half amazing
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    There will be teams that will pull the plug at or around the deadline, shutting down healthy players. The Spurs won’t do that. Even if they’re in the bottom 3 at that time, those 2-3 teams could easily slip behind them.
    The spurs won’t do that because they don’t need to. They purposely constructed a roster that is guaranteed to be one of the worst in the league. They don’t get extra points for getting rid of good players. It’s functionally the same thing as not playing good players.

    The cognitive dissonance among spurstalkers is bordering on disturbing at this point.

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