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  1. #1651
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Yeah, but the Miami Lobster Claws and Peoria Ice Cream Cones are incredible compe ion.
    I’m on the opposite side of this debate, but gotta give props where due… this made me audibly chuckle

  2. #1652
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Dean, like any other human being, has his share of hits and misses, but is a fun additional data point. Didn't have Jalen Williams on his big board at all, IIRC, and panned OKC for picking him, but was higher than the market on DJM (#13 overall).

    Of note, he did have Bassey (#26) rated over other Spurs Weiskamp (#29), Champagnie (#35), Primo (#49) and Mamu (rated as a "Longshot").

    It's fun to go back and read some of his big boards because it really hammers home what a crap shoot the draft can be. Anyone remember Dragan Bender?
    He had Jokic #16, and Sengun at #5, so he does know some stuff. In addition he was big on Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner, pre draft, having them top 5. His profile for Wagner, guy can do a bit of everything, including defend, decent size, low usage, reasonable efficiency, made me want to seek out that kind of player, which is why I'm in on Black and Hendricks.

    Definitely a bit of an iconoclast, though.

  3. #1653
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    TBH I'm terrified of Wemby too given how players as tall as him rarely have long and/or consistent NBA careers. Yao, Sabonis, and Sampson are pretty much the best of the best at that size and each of them had terrible injury history. And Sampson wasn't even that good healthy. The only decent player that size I can even think of who wasn't a China doll was Mark Eaton. You gotta take him for his talent but Wemby is no sure thing like Tim or LeBron.

    EDIT: Forgot Rik Smits, he wasn't too injury prone either
    True but to all the guys named here are 90s 2000s guys (Yao quit in 2011) who were traditional big stiffs. Sport science and surgery have made a lot progress, and to Wemby, the same difference that make him such a unique big (agility and coordination) probably also make him different as far as typical big injuries are concerned. If his body naturally let him do all these smaller player things in a smooth way, we should maybe see him more as a guard injury wise.

  4. #1654
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Well , so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.
    Height. Eaton, Smits, and Yao were HUGE, like Frankenstein. Wemby isn't built like that. Might help him skirt those issues.

  5. #1655
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    He had Jokic #16, and Sengun at #5, so he does know some stuff. In addition he was big on Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner, pre draft, having them top 5. His profile for Wagner, guy can do a bit of everything, including defend, decent size, low usage, reasonable efficiency, made me want to seek out that kind of player, which is why I'm in on Black and Hendricks.

    Definitely a bit of an iconoclast, though.
    This is touching on something that has been hard to quantify for me, and the reason why I'm attracted to the same players.

    I like those multi-dimensional players, even if they might have flaws or gaps in their games, and/or do not and will never project as great scorers. The reason why I was pulling so hard for Sochan last year.

    It seems like there's a severe problem with the American game right now, including Canada. Most of the highly touted players are score-only, or they do other things only when the scoring doesn't work in any given possession. The Jalen Green type. I see Scoot in that vein -- supposedly a high-level driver and scorer who gets high level of assists on dump-offs.

    Of course, this has always been a problem, with Allen Iverson inaugurating what became an increasingly prevalent archetype over the next two decades. As player like Duncan, Nowitski, Wade, and so on faded, they were replaced by Harden, Westbrook, Durant, who verged further into that format, and now they've been replaced by the D'Aaron Foxes and SGAs who almost exclusively just drive and shoot and get foul shots. Adam Silver's NBA rewards them by making defense nearly impossible.

    Boston, for example, is highly effective because they have two supreme iso scorers in Brown and Tatum, but they are incredibly boring to watch and often break down in the clutch.

    Anyway, there seems to be something really problematic going on, a deep trend that doesn't look like slowing down. Compounding the problem is how young lottery picks are in the draft. These players, if they are effective, are stuck into the same basic systems of drive and kick, drive and kick. Either you jack a three, or you drive, then the ball gets out to a shooter. Those are the only offensive skills needed. And it seems to be stagnating the league.

  6. #1656
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    ^ I agree with this and to me I suppose I could roll with the changes if the game was still compe ive but the way they’ve manipulated the refereeing issues for defense makes the game boring. It feels they want highlights and stats, sort of like baseball trying to pump up home runs with live balls and steroids, so to speak.

  7. #1657
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Looking at the rookie pay scale for the top 5 slots and considering the talent potential drop off after Wemby I'm doubling down on my "give me #1 or give me #6"

    Not paying say #2 scale for a possibly non-top 5 talent potential and I can't say there is much difference in intrigue between #2 - #5 range imho

  8. #1658
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    * - with the exception of Miler skill wise but looking at that as a barred consideration for non skill issues.

  9. #1659
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    Smits was really good on those 90ís pacers playoff teams good until nerve problems with his feet ended his career.
    Well , so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.
    Smits still played 70 games at age 33
    But yeah you do worry
    I'm still think he's literally and figuratively head and shoulders above the rest.
    I watched some of the NCAA tournament games this year for the first time in a while and was really unimpressed.
    This may be on me not watching college ball and not being able to extrapolate- e.g. Brandon Miller- I was really underwhelmed. Funny shot not able to drive. Injured-maybe, but as Exstatic pointed out he didn't do well on drives all season long.

  10. #1660
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Smits still played 70 games at age 33
    But yeah you do worry
    I'm still think he's literally and figuratively head and shoulders above the rest.
    I watched some of the NCAA tournament games this year for the first time in a while and was really unimpressed.
    This may be on me not watching college ball and not being able to extrapolate- e.g. Brandon Miller- I was really underwhelmed. Funny shot not able to drive. Injured-maybe, but as Exstatic pointed out he didn't do well on drives all season long.
    Actually, he feasted on bottom feeders, but struggled against top 50 KENPOM teams. His overall number wasn't awful, but it was misleading. He's going to have to work on his drive and dish and drive and score at the next level, like a lot.

  11. #1661
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").

  12. #1662
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").
    Apparently, the magic number for your feet falling off in year two is > 7'3", so Kareem just limbos under the wire.

  13. #1663
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Looking at the rookie pay scale for the top 5 slots and considering the talent potential drop off after Wemby I'm doubling down on my "give me #1 or give me #6"

    Not paying say #2 scale for a possibly non-top 5 talent potential and I can't say there is much difference in intrigue between #2 - #5 range imho
    Give me the best pick personnally, end of story. I have no idea how these players will actually fare in the NBA and will do in personal workouts or ITVs. Intrigue aside, I can't have the pretention to possess a complete, overall appreciation of this draft and affirm there's no difference because there certainly is, as we'll see until up the draft. For months, scoot was surefire #2... Just give me the best pick as always.

  14. #1664
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    Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").
    Even when young Kareems legs where much thicker- Wemb is Deer like

  15. #1665
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    Actually, he feasted on bottom feeders, but struggled against top 50 KENPOM teams. His overall number wasn't awful, but it was misleading. He's going to have to work on his drive and dish and drive and score at the next level, like a lot.
    Is it a lack of handles, strength or burst? Or some combination there of?
    It definitely is concerning as he's going up a huge step in athleticism

    And are numbers like this predictive of future problems. It's always said rebound numbers always translate well. And the NBA spacing may be more conducive to driving...

  16. #1666
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Is it a lack of handles, strength or burst? Or some combination there of?
    It definitely is concerning as he's going up a huge step in athleticism

    And are numbers like this predictive of future problems. It's always said rebound numbers always translate well. And the NBA spacing may be more conducive to driving...
    He made pretty big strides from his AAU days. He went from a rebounds, steals, blocks guy in EYBL to a legit D1 scorer in a high level conference. He's listed as a SF, so his rebounding is actually in the green at 8.2/game 9.1/36.

    I think he's shown he can go up a level. He's just going to need to work hard. He's not likely to be amazing immediately.

  17. #1667
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    No interest in Walker. Sochan and him can't consistently play together and neither is a good enough prospect to overlook that or the reality that a team this bereft of offensive talent would have no business utilizing their highest pick in 26 years on a player with a role player ceiling.

    If/when they land at 4 or lower, I'd first attempt to trade up to 2 or 3 and when that fails, strongly consider trading back. Not a big fan of any option in that range, so if they could trade with the Magic and move back for Whitmore and Wallace for example, that's probably better than anything else.

  18. #1668
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    No interest in Walker. Sochan and him can't consistently play together and neither is a good enough prospect to overlook that or the reality that a team this bereft of offensive talent would have no business utilizing their highest pick in 26 years on a player with a role player ceiling.

    If/when they land at 4 or lower, I'd first attempt to trade up to 2 or 3 and when that fails, strongly consider trading back. Not a big fan of any option in that range, so if they could trade with the Magic and move back for Whitmore and Wallace for example, that's probably better than anything else.
    Overall i agree, the thing about Walker or Black is that they're in play for a pick like 7 imo. They look like role player, maybe the ceilling is high for both but there's some questions.

  19. #1669
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    For some reason I feel like we might pick Keyonte George.

    Some hope to a be a scorer at the next level which is the desperate need.
    Plays some defense.
    Appears photogenic and congenial.
    How can they say no to another 6’4” shooting guard?
    Has less than ideal athleticism.

    Seems like a perfect storm. Sort of joking.

  20. #1670
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    To me, there's a dead spot between 3-6 or so, and I may include 2. I'm not entirely enamored with the players likely to go at those slots. More to the point, I'm not enamored with giving those players high rookie-scale salaries.

    I'd rather take Anthony Black at #7 than Scoot Henderson at #2. Maybe that's foolish, but that's how I perceive the costs and risks. It's not that I wouldn't want Scoot on the team, it's that I value paying Scoot the #2 salary slot less than I value paying Black the #7 salary.

    I don't think anyone is going to trade Wembanyama if they get him. I don't really value moving up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Or 4th or 5th, really, since that's the whole 'dead zone' where cost is higher than value (to me).

    While I lash this draft a bit as weak, it's because I think the top is weak -- too many question marks. But I think it's relatively deep, or at least from the ~6 to ~20 range. It's a strange draft, then, the number 1 pick higher than usual, the next five to six picks kind of questionable, then value again for the next fifteen picks.

  21. #1671
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Even when young Kareems legs where much thicker- Wemb is Deer like
    On May 16, I'd love to see that deer in the headlights.

  22. #1672
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    To me, there's a dead spot between 3-6 or so, and I may include 2. I'm not entirely enamored with the players likely to go at those slots. More to the point, I'm not enamored with giving those players high rookie-scale salaries.

    I'd rather take Anthony Black at #7 than Scoot Henderson at #2. Maybe that's foolish, but that's how I perceive the costs and risks. It's not that I wouldn't want Scoot on the team, it's that I value paying Scoot the #2 salary slot less than I value paying Black the #7 salary.

    I don't think anyone is going to trade Wembanyama if they get him. I don't really value moving up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Or 4th or 5th, really, since that's the whole 'dead zone' where cost is higher than value (to me).

    While I lash this draft a bit as weak, it's because I think the top is weak -- too many question marks. But I think it's relatively deep, or at least from the ~6 to ~20 range. It's a strange draft, then, the number 1 pick higher than usual, the next five to six picks kind of questionable, then value again for the next fifteen picks.
    If the Spurs are in the last two of the lottery, it could be feast or famine.

    Pick one is where you want to be, two may be worse than 5 (depending on whom the Spurs value).

  23. #1673
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Would be cool to have Jarace Walker and Sochan with one in at all times but you could run either at SF with the other PF and have a pretty insane double trouble on the loose. That could get pretty lock down but was it really worth the tank or a top 5 pick- I don't know and it would def require more building aka another possible tankish season.

    One thing I like about Jarace Walker is he is always moving out there. He's like a bloodhound with a nose for the ball. There is a highlight reel of all just defensive close outs on shooters. Always contesting, picks/strips/intercepts/blocks a lot of balls away.

    Just love that tenacity and think it would translate well in general in the NBA and then also think the Spurs are the type of team that could enhance that set of traits to make him nasty nasty out there. Hits the 3 ball some which again Spurs can coax out from him an even better ability there too, most likely. Kinda has a weird, not so fluid, flick release might have to look at that. Has a lengthy windup/gather that he will have to trim down too imo. He has a wet floater in the paint though pretty reliable there.

    Still feel like Walker is kinda tame overall, not really a sizzling brand of basketball to the eye, just a good player. That's what worries you with such a high pick and not so much super sizzle.

    But without #1 and Wemby, starting to next best approve of Jarace Walker. Just hope it's because SA went #5-6/7 though, kinda afraid of a reach from any better selection position than that.

  24. #1674
    Spurs Sage Russ's Avatar
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    Would be cool to have Jarace Walker and Sochan with one in at all times but you could run either at SF with the other PF and have a pretty insane double trouble on the loose. That could get pretty lock down but was it really worth the tank or a top 5 pick- I don't know and it would def require more building aka another possible tankish season.
    That's the problem, this tank could be brilliant or pretty much worthless (in retrospect).

    And that's just the way the NBA intended it.

  25. #1675
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    C'est la vie, Russ. As a certain French player might say?

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