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  1. #1801
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Interesting developments on the new tankathon player rankings update

    NSJ and Keyonte fall almost out of the lottery

    Jordan Hawkins up in the mid teens from 21

    Kobe Bufkin now 21 from 33!

    Sanogo pops up late 2nd now

  2. #1802
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    I'll be interested to see where George ends up. He's got a silky smooth shot and unlimited range, but he was very inefficient and mostly a non-factor defensively. Definitely a project for whoever takes him.

  3. #1803
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Interesting developments on the new tankathon player rankings update

    NSJ and Keyonte fall almost out of the lottery

    Jordan Hawkins up in the mid teens from 21

    Kobe Bufkin now 21 from 33!

    Sanogo pops up late 2nd now
    Tankathon is a lagging indicator. Lots of us had Keyonte in the low lottery, the reasons why are pretty obvious: inefficient, undersized, mediocre athlete, bad defender. He needs to be much more efficient to make up for his short comings. I haven't given up on him, you can see the talent is there and he's probably one of the better gambles in the mid teens, but he hasn't been worth a high lottery pick for months in my mind.

    Nick Smith may be worth a late first rounder at best if he has good workouts. He hasn't shown much of anything other than cause for concerns, from his underwhelming size, athleticism, playmaking, and even scoring potential. The only thing he's more than filled his quota of are injuries. Hard pass for me.

    Early in the season the hype surrounding certain players is out of control, and it only comes down as the evidence piles up. You can't block the sun with your finger. Last year it was Hardy, Baldwin Jr, Kendall Brown, Houstan... lots of supposedly top 10 guys who ended up second rounders or fringe firsts... Nick Smith is the '23 version of that.

    Hawkins is this year's Agbaji, only younger and a better shooter. I'll be surprised if he's not taken around 10-14. Maybe even earlier. Lots of teams trending up could use a guy like that.

  4. #1804
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Kobe Bufkin is my guy. He's not just a good an efficient scorer, he can facilitate and is actually more than solid as a defender. He's super skinny and that won't change, but this is the era for it. He plays through contact and hits at an exceptional 70+% at the rim.

    He's getting noticed, though, which is too bad.

  5. #1805
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Great thoughts Ariel thanks

    Agreed mr body was hoping to get Bufkin at 33 but the word is out

  6. #1806
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar

  7. #1807
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar
    I had a phase where I thought pop could work that magic and unlock a Thompson twin but after watching lots of tape I don't see much subsurface IQ that could even be developed out. I bet SA is looking at it more seriously than most fans are, it would be a heist to polish up a twin and get a valuable contributor out of the trash heap and in classic spurs sense a rags to riches service up story.

    But these twin are downright raw! Great physicality and that was what I was keying into. It's conceivable that SA could still make a diamond out of coal here but what an uphill battle especially for a 5-7 pick.

    Some more finished product team will reap more from the twins in a system that is readymade and can just drop a twin into a finished product where they can just freelance what they excelled at and put the squad over the top.

    The twins would be just a drop in the bucket for SA though imho. But yeah I see a little crack of daylight potential wise and despite the sea of red flags I wouldn't be surprised I'd SA picked and flipped a twin into something decent either. Other than that I've cooled off completely on taking a twin really

  8. #1808
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    Iím so intrigued by the twinsÖif Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar
    I may think Ausar could be better as he can shoot, Amen's shoot is really broken... Will see if he can develop a jumpshot, other than that the tools are there. I'm intrigued by both and i don't rule them out of our pick.

    Still really hard to evaluate them with the Overtime Elite.

    I had a phase where I thought pop could work that magic and unlock a Thompson twin but after watching lots of tape I don't see much subsurface IQ that could even be developed out. I bet SA is looking at it more seriously than most fans are, it would be a heist to polish up a twin and get a valuable contributor out of the trash heap and in classic spurs sense a rags to riches service up story.

    But these twin are downright raw! Great physicality and that was what I was keying into. It's conceivable that SA could still make a diamond out of coal here but what an uphill battle especially for a 5-7 pick.

    Some more finished product team will reap more from the twins in a system that is readymade and can just drop a twin into a finished product where they can just freelance what they excelled at and put the squad over the top.

    The twins would be just a drop in the bucket for SA though imho. But yeah I see a little crack of daylight potential wise and despite the sea of red flags I wouldn't be surprised I'd SA picked and flipped a twin into something decent either. Other than that I've cooled off completely on taking a twin really
    I don't think they're that raw, the shoot is a problem but they can do a lot of thing : Pass, rebound, good ballhandling imo.... Imo they don't have a bad IQ but they need some polish.

    The athletism is the biggest quality but they have others like playmaking, Ausar looks better on D and shooting. Amen may be the best of the two but he needs to shoooot
    Last edited by duncan2150; 04-07-2023 at 02:59 PM.

  9. #1809
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I may think Ausar could be better as he can shoot, Amen's shoot is really broken... Will see if he can develop a jumpshot, other than that the tools are there. I'm intrigued by both and i don't rule them out of our pick.

    Still really hard to evaluate them with the Overtime Elite.



    I don't think they're that raw, the shoot is a problem but they can do a lot of thing : Pass, rebound, good ballhandling imo.... Imo they don't have a bad IQ but they need some polish.

    The athletism is the biggest quality but they have others like playmaking, Ausar looks better on D and shooting. Amen may be the best of the two but he needs to shoooot
    The defense and playmaking is what intrigues me…

  10. #1810
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Agreed DPG

    I said a few weeks back that Ausar could be a surprising and underrated pick. Low flash but does a lot of little things: can playmake, stuffs the stats with little ast, Reb, steals. Perimeter D is actually solid. and then of course the fantastic athleticism and physical frame.

    Not against it, just wanted more flash and pop for such a high pick and not too thrilled about the longer potential development arc as well as the risk of the likely higher than possibly acceptable bust potential.

  11. #1811
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    I said you can teach someone how to shoot over time, look at Sochan though those results may vary I think Sochan is a special player.

    But you can't teach that high octane athleticism that comes natural to Ausar Thompson. Someone said no deer but what about a leopard? Can't teach that physical frame with all the offseasons in the world

  12. #1812
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    Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and compe iveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of compe ion they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.

  13. #1813
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    Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and compe iveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of compe ion they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.
    I tend to lean this way too. The NBA is all about guys that can leap out of the gym these days, but the actual basketball "skills" are fading fast. Feels like a lot of investment is being made in athletic guys who never really develop into NBA players. Should create a nice turnstile of players through the league I suppose. But should the Spurs use their highest draft pick in years on an athletic prospect who "might" become a superstar talent? Maybe that's our only option at 4 thru 7, but it doesn't feel great.

  14. #1814
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    The defense and playmaking is what intrigues me…
    The last measurements (AAU) had their wingpans at 6’6” and 6’7”. Not good for defensive disruption.

  15. #1815
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and compe iveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of compe ion they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.
    Dude even the highlight reels are so flat and unremarkable imo. I like how you said no feel for the game, I said low IQ, but that is exactly what I noticed. Watching those clips there was zero "jazz" or special moments, it's all flat, stupid, unintuitive going through the motions and it turned me off on the twins right away.

  16. #1816
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and compe iveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of compe ion they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.
    Their athleticism is also being displayed against high schoolers. Hard to know if they’re just more mature, or if their athleticism is NBA ready.

  17. #1817
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and compe iveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of compe ion they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.
    Yup. Almost every single draft class is littered with high draft picks on athletic marvels who never learn how to play NBA basketball. It happens all the time. It's like teams keep smashing their s over and over.

  18. #1818
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Their athleticism is also being displayed against high schoolers. Hard to know if they’re just more mature, or if their athleticism is NBA ready.
    Someone pointed out that over 30% of possessions in the OTE occur in transition. The average in the NBA is about 17%. So almost twice as many.

    So, basically, OTE is so poor that teams cannot manage an even basic transition defense.

  19. #1819
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    There’s obviously risks with anyone this year outside of Wemby/Scoot it appears. But all the valid criticisms still dont take away from a few wow moments for me from Thompson’s. Does that mean I’m 100% sold on them at the moment? Nope…but I dont think it’s at all a question of their athleticism and defensive upside translating personally. It’s everything else.

    So I’m not saying I’m hoping SA gets them but I have seen enough to be intrigued is all.

  20. #1820
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    There’s obviously risks with anyone this year outside of Wemby/Scoot it appears. But all the valid criticisms still dont take away from a few wow moments for me from Thompson’s. Does that mean I’m 100% sold on them at the moment? Nope…but I dont think it’s at all a question of their athleticism and defensive upside translating personally. It’s everything else.

    So I’m not saying I’m hoping SA gets them but I have seen enough to be intrigued is all.
    I think you could get an Aaron Gordon type who is an athletic freak and really did improve to become a good player.

  21. #1821
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I think you could get an Aaron Gordon type who is an athletic freak and really did improve to become a good player.
    That’s a great comp….and if Gordon would have embraced winning ball earlier and his playmaking chops alongside his defense, he would have been viewed as even better. We will see, I trust the Spurs drafting and program. I’m every bit as worried about all prospects after Wemby/Scoot (even Miller who I like has me worried some) but I personally did see a few truly wow moments from the twins (not that it’s enough to draft them, but I did see special as a ceiling at least even if unlikely)

  22. #1822
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    If we should end up at #6 or 7, and Whitmore goes at 4 or 5 (which he probably should) I'd be okay with a Thompson (though I'd prefer Black) in the same way I was ultimately "okay" (but not excited) with Primo - at least it's a swing at the fence without any clear and obviously high upside options available there. Basically, my feeling at the end would be to just accept that it was a ty draft without too much hand wringing after the fact.

  23. #1823
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    My first impression is that he reminds me of a more athletic Rondo. If the shot doesnít come around for Amen (which should be the assumption) he still has a decently high floor regular season like a Ben Simmons or Rondo did with the ball handling, vision/passing and ability to truly get out in the open floor and be a good defender. Would that be great for a top 6 pick? Meh, but floor seems ok with how advanced the passing seems to be alongside the athletic build.

    This isnít someone who can just catch lobs or jump high; that level of play making and ball handling with the athletic profile is what stood out to me.

  24. #1824
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Basically, my feeling at the end would be to just accept that it was a ty draft without too much hand wringing after the fact.
    If you have no confidence whatsoever in any prospect left at your position, then you're not forced to pick one. Someone always perceives things differently, and whoever is willing to give out the most is your trade partner. So whether it's trading for lower picks and/or future picks and/or young prospects, that's all better than taking someone you're not sold on.

  25. #1825
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    If you have no confidence whatsoever in any prospect left at your position, then you're not forced to pick one. Someone always perceives things differently, and whoever is willing to give out the most is your trade partner. So whether it's trading for lower picks and/or future picks and/or young prospects, that's all better than taking someone you're not sold on.
    I'd be fine with trading out of the #6 or 7 spot as well. But I'm also not in the front office, so my feelings on the draft don't really matter. Spurs may be superhigh on a Thompson at #6 and want to take him, my feeling about the draft will be the same though, and I'll put my faith in the Spurs FO to once again develop a gem.

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