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  1. #26
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    You're not wrong, but I don't think Poeltl and JRich are the difference between being bottom 3 and say a play-in team. If there are such players on the roster they're Keldon and Vassell. The vets help the team being somewhat compe ive and have a structure that would allow the younger guys to have the ball and develop.
    Have to disagree I think without Poodle this team is definitely the top 3 worse in the NBA - If the Spurs are not going to sign him to a new contract and at this point they know what he wants they need to get something from him. If we let him walk for nothing that is going to really hurt us in our rebuild process so hoping we can get a trade done sooner rather then latter

  2. #27
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    Have to disagree I think without Poodle this team is definitely the top 3 worse in the NBA - If the Spurs are not going to sign him to a new contract and at this point they know what he wants they need to get something from him. If we let him walk for nothing that is going to really hurt us in our rebuild process so hoping we can get a trade done sooner rather then latter
    If he wants more than the max extension they can offer (current salary +120%), then there's nothing they can do about his contract until the summer.

    You're right that he's more important to this team than I originally implied because his backups are way worse.

  3. #28
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    there should be a legitimate discussion about whether victor is worth more than the ineffable quality of being a winning team. We will lose pop, our last link to the past. I don't think many spurs fans realize how long it took to build the duncan era. It wasn't just a fluky tank. it was several unrepeatable events. We are much more likely to find a repeat of the Pre duncan era with Robinson being good but not enough. Many teams can't convert their "generational talent" because they don't have team building luck or flexibility. There have been many more teams getting a chance by building slowly and developing and getting lucky (raptors, warriors, milwaukee) or overleveraging (lakers, and they still got lucky with the short season). The spurs are open to both slow growth and overrisking.

    This season is a real win win, either real growth from the guys and a weak draft return, or a better draft pick. You can't look to the past to describe the present

  4. #29
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    I forgot how delicious DAF's tears are every season, no matter what.

    Team winning: we should be tanking

    Team losing: wtf is wrong with this roster and Pop

    The ? This is the first season I'm advocating for the tank. Wouldn't even be asking for it if it wasn't for the Murray trade.

    The way you describe to enjoy my tears I would have guessed you'd knew more about my posting history.

  5. #30
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    Whatever sources timvp has were sure Poeltl was going to be traded no matter what and that the team was trying to go into a free fall. Poeltl on the other hand said the team told him they had no intention to trade him. It's stuff like that that gave people the impression the Spurs were tanking and are just failing at it. The reality seems more that they're trying to develop guys without really caring if they win or not. Those are different things. I wouldn't sweat that difference, but one is causing stress to some fans on here.

    I think you and some other fans have a relatively specific idea of how a team needs to be built. That's a valid idea, but I don't think the Spurs agree with that. A lot of folks are annoyed because they believed or maybe even still believe PATFO has "finally" decided to try things their way and are coming to realization that, nope, the Spurs are still doing what they did last year. They're just further along in the process.
    I still suspect Poeltl (and Richardson) will be traded no matter what. "No intention" is semantics and besides, what are they and especially him going to say (at least publicly)?

    They may be technically different, but with a team this bad, let's just say the line is blurry.

    Pop probably doesn't agree with that, but I think the Spurs as a whole do, and it appears they're winning out more often. I still can't imagine he's going to engage in in game tanking shenanigans though.

  6. #31
    プリモが一番露出狂 baseline bum's Avatar
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    there should be a legitimate discussion about whether victor is worth more than the ineffable quality of being a winning team.
    That's not the choice here. The choice is between tanking and being a 35 win team. Either way you're miles from contention, but you're closer with the tanking team since you'll get the chance to draft an elite talent vs picking in the late lottery.

  7. #32
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    Don’t worry people, we have plenty of games left to tank��

  8. #33
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    The ? This is the first season I'm advocating for the tank. Wouldn't even be asking for it if it wasn't for the Murray trade.

    The way you describe to enjoy my tears I would have guessed you'd knew more about my posting history.
    Dude, you are one of the most consistently emo posters on this board for over a decade. A constant source for mocking hilarity for all who visit. Spin it however you want, but those of us in the gallery will continue to laugh at your ridiculous and ty takes

  9. #34
    Veteran Chomag's Avatar
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    Don’t worry people, we have plenty of games left to tank��
    Not if there are 3 more teams that are more serious about tanking then the Spurs.

    Every game may count even at the opposite of the spectrum.

  10. #35
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    Dude, you are one of the most consistently emo posters on this board for over a decade. A constant source for mocking hilarity for all who visit. Spin it however you want, but those of us in the gallery will continue to laugh at your ridiculous and ty takes
    Hahahaha what? I barely even post here anymore. Don't even bother to browse the site when we lose to avoid all the boring cliff jumping. The are you talking about you? You can't be for real.

  11. #36
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    Utah says hi! Some of you just don’t get it…..

  12. #37
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    The Spurs have remained reasonably compe ive for years now. This is not a Sacramento Kings situation where we have established a losing cutlure for years. It just has to be this one. Tank just this year to get a 50/50 chance at getting one of the 2 generational talents availabe and you can begin next season planning to win again.
    Itís not 50/50. Where on earth did you get that idea? If weíre the worst ing team in basketball, itís 1 in 7.

  13. #38
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    It’s not 50/50. Where on earth did you get that idea? If we’re the worst ing team in basketball, it’s 1 in 7.
    Those are the odds for getting number one. If you finish with the worst record you secure a top 3 spot, and I really didn't do the math to see which are the odds of getting a top 2 draft pick, but it mustn't be that far off from 50/50.

  14. #39
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    Those are the odds for getting number one. If you finish with the worst record you secure a top 3 spot, and I really didn't do the math to see which are the odds of getting a top 2 draft pick, but it mustn't be that far off from 50/50.
    The worst team can pick as low as #5.

  15. #40
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    The worst team can pick as low as #5.
    Do you know the odds for getting a top 2 pick with the worst record?

  16. #41
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    Do you know the odds for getting a top 2 pick with the worst record?
    2/7, less than 1/3.

    https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

  17. #42
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    Thanks. Anyways, no matter the odds, after trading away your best player I think the best outcome it would be to maximize the chances of getting the highest pick possible, in a draft projected to have, at least, two generational talents. If there was ever a season to tank, it was this one, tbh.

  18. #43
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    The Spurs weren't tanking. They were pruning. That they are basically the same level of team despite losing three All-Stars speaks tremendously to the growth of their players. That people are so upset about the young guys playing well on a team with loads of picks and cap space is annoying. I'm down with the Spurs drafting a star if they have the opportunity, but the point of being bad is supposed to be get good young players, and they seem to have those while still having plenty of prospects to work on. I get the idea that the Spurs lack a superstar but a) They may not get a top-2 pick regardless of how bad they are b) That player (especially Wemby) might not stay healthy or develop and c) Even if those things happen, that player may not want to stay with the Spurs by the time they're good enough to take advantage. Also d) By the time that player develops, the core folks want to be around for them may have moved on. If you have the opportunity, take it. But I would like to see them have multiple options open.

    For folks who fall back on the "treadmill" retort: Life is a treadmill. We're born, live and die, no matter what we accomplish. If you don't think that, it's because you've assigned meaning to your existence. You can do the same thing to your sports entertainment. It's only championship or bust if you disregard the majority of the season and don't particularly care about watching good basketball. Pissing that away chasing after the chance of delayed gratification sucks. For some folks, this will be the last season they ever see. They'll never know if the Spurs find their star or turn things around. I can't ride with the idea of purposefully not enjoying entertaining things in hopes you'll be more entertained later. Saving up to buy a house? Sure. Dieting to get your health back in order? Understandable. Being mad that your team won a quality game? Nope.
    Equating the meaning of life with a ty Spurs team lucking into a positive record 3 games into the season might be your magnum opus, Chin.

  19. #44
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    It’s 3 games in the season and I’m liking the synergy. It will be interesting how the PATFO will approach this season. If they see a possible 10th spot, and it’s not impossible with other teams in on the Victor/Scoot lottery, would they still trade Poeltl/JRich? If Poeltl would take south of 20 mil a year? Should they sign him? Honestly I’m for trading all 3 vets if trajectory is 10th place. No reason to lose chance on picking possible generational talents Victor/Scooter and get stuck on a hamster wheel

  20. #45
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    It’s 3 games in the season and I’m liking the synergy. It will be interesting how the PATFO will approach this season. If they see a possible 10th spot, and it’s not impossible with other teams in on the Victor/Scoot lottery, would they still trade Poeltl/JRich? If Poeltl would take south of 20 mil a year? Should they sign him? Honestly I’m for trading all 3 vets if trajectory is 10th place. No reason to lose chance on picking possible generational talents Victor/Scooter and get stuck on a hamster wheel
    No matter how good this team is, if two unprotected LAL pick is offered Brian Wright would trade those guys. That is too much value. Role players for 2 unprotected picks is unprecedented.

  21. #46
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    We draft well so focusing on draft position vs draft development is asinine. You want the best lump of clay to mold but “ BEST” is subjective.

  22. #47
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    Equating the meaning of life with a ty Spurs team lucking into a positive record 3 games into the season might be your magnum opus, Chin.
    More like it's weird to watch sports and feel it has to "mean something" when we live our lives making up meaning for things all the time. That some folks watch their team win a game but go "Oh no, but this is hurting their chance to win a le in the next 10 years" is the stretch. Like, who cares? Unless you work for the team, there's basically no benefit from them winning. It's just whether or not you're having fun watching them. Purposefully not enjoying them winning now in hopes your acetic at ude rubs off on the front office and that both make the sacrifices to increase their odds at winning a lottery and then being lucky enough to win that lottery despite still not having great odds is irrational. You being happy about a win isn't going to make the Spurs not tank, and you being miserable about a win isn't going to make them tank. So why not just enjoy the win? Why instead guzzle down the sandwich that is tanking mentality when your team isn't even tanking in the first place? It's not even cognitive dissonance. It's weirder than that.

  23. #48
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    I still suspect Poeltl (and Richardson) will be traded no matter what. "No intention" is semantics and besides, what are they and especially him going to say (at least publicly)?
    Poeltl wasn't picking through his words carefully in order to not give the game away. He basically just said the team didn't given any indication he was going to be moved and were planning on him playing the year with them. This was supposedly during the time where SA was falling all over themselves trying to move him. I doubt they'd've lied to him or that he would've lied for them if they were really as keen to make a move as we had been led to believe. We were supposed to believe the Spurs were absolutely not going to go into the season with Poeltl, whereas Jakob said they weren't planning on moving him. It's parsimonious to believe he was telling the truth rather than assuming a bunch of things happened behind the scenes.

    They may be technically different, but with a team this bad, let's just say the line is blurry.
    The line isn't that blurry though. Everything we've actually heard from the organization suggests a team that was willing to take a step back and even realistically believe it will take a step back but that wasn't banking on it. Fans who want the team to tank took that and assumed that the team had the goal of losing games to win the lotto. That wasn't a universal interpretation of what was going on at the time. Some of us did not think the Spurs were trying to lose more than they were just getting value out of Murray. I think for the most part, we all just assumed that they'd be bad to the point that they'd lose games even if they were trying their hardest to win. But when it came down to question like which players to cut, whether Jones or Primo would be the starter or if the prospect of Primo or KBD/Roby breaking out would be a bad thing for the team, it was clear that there's a division between folks who WANT the team to lose games and folks who just accepted the team's talent would lose games. That the team is winning games so far is making that line sharper, not blurrier.

    Pop probably doesn't agree with that, but I think the Spurs as a whole do, and it appears they're winning out more often. I still can't imagine he's going to engage in in game tanking shenanigans though.
    I don't think Brian Wright is trying to lose either. Most GMs don't have luxury of too many losing seasons, and he's had quite a few so far. People also assume Pop would want to make all these win-now moves, but that hasn't been his style in more than a decade. If anything, the team has avoided being aggressive in situations they could've been so. Some accused them of not "picking a lane" because they never really went for it after Leonard despite not completely rebuilding either. You can argue that without Jrue Holidaying Keldon they were never truly serious about tanking. What I see is a team that is willing to wait until the deadline to decide what it wants to do. I don't see them winning enough to where tanking isn't still an option in February, and if they are at that level or lower, I would predict them moving the guys. If they lose enough, that could happen by December 15th. If they're winning though, I could see them looking to be stealth buyers with their cap space and minor picks.

  24. #49
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    Poeltl wasn't picking through his words carefully in order to not give the game away. He basically just said the team didn't given any indication he was going to be moved and were planning on him playing the year with them. This was supposedly during the time where SA was falling all over themselves trying to move him. I doubt they'd've lied to him or that he would've lied for them if they were really as keen to make a move as we had been led to believe. We were supposed to believe the Spurs were absolutely not going to go into the season with Poeltl, whereas Jakob said they weren't planning on moving him. It's parsimonious to believe he was telling the truth rather than assuming a bunch of things happened behind the scenes.



    The line isn't that blurry though. Everything we've actually heard from the organization suggests a team that was willing to take a step back and even realistically believe it will take a step back but that wasn't banking on it. Fans who want the team to tank took that and assumed that the team had the goal of losing games to win the lotto. That wasn't a universal interpretation of what was going on at the time. Some of us did not think the Spurs were trying to lose more than they were just getting value out of Murray. I think for the most part, we all just assumed that they'd be bad to the point that they'd lose games even if they were trying their hardest to win. But when it came down to question like which players to cut, whether Jones or Primo would be the starter or if the prospect of Primo or KBD/Roby breaking out would be a bad thing for the team, it was clear that there's a division between folks who WANT the team to lose games and folks who just accepted the team's talent would lose games. That the team is winning games so far is making that line sharper, not blurrier.



    I don't think Brian Wright is trying to lose either. Most GMs don't have luxury of too many losing seasons, and he's had quite a few so far. People also assume Pop would want to make all these win-now moves, but that hasn't been his style in more than a decade. If anything, the team has avoided being aggressive in situations they could've been so. Some accused them of not "picking a lane" because they never really went for it after Leonard despite not completely rebuilding either. You can argue that without Jrue Holidaying Keldon they were never truly serious about tanking. What I see is a team that is willing to wait until the deadline to decide what it wants to do. I don't see them winning enough to where tanking isn't still an option in February, and if they are at that level or lower, I would predict them moving the guys. If they lose enough, that could happen by December 15th. If they're winning though, I could see them looking to be stealth buyers with their cap space and minor picks.
    The spurs indicated they are trying to trade their vets. That’s almost a certainty. We’ll have a clear answer by the trade deadline (then spurs are definitely tanking)

  25. #50
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    The spurs indicated they are trying to trade their vets. Thatís almost a certainty. Weíll have a clear answer by the trade deadline (then spurs are definitely tanking)
    The Spurs didn't indicate they are trying to trade vets. "Sources close to the team" indicated that. Folks are choosing to believe those sources over Poeltl and over the reality of the Spurs not making any moves despite the sources saying they definitely would before the season started.

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