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  1. #76
    Veteran Chomag's Avatar
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    Just can't wait for the. "We like what we have"

  2. #77
    Spurs fan in Georgia Drom John's Avatar
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    For career I like Basketball-Reference, because FiveThirtyEight doesn't seem to have a career version.

    Draft 2020 WS
    1. Haliburton
    2. Bane
    3. Maxey
    4. Stewart
    5. Ball
    6. Quickley
    7. Bey
    8. Okongwu
    9. Martin
    10. Edwards
    11. Pritchard
    12. Vassell

    20. Jones

    VORP
    1. Haliburton
    2. Ball
    3. Bane
    4. Maxey
    5. Edwards
    6. Quickley
    7. Bey
    8. Toppin
    9. Pritchard
    10. Vassell

    16. Jones

    WS/48
    19. Jones
    25. Vassell

    Above
    Fiesta colored glasses.

  3. #78
    Believe. Rocalcio's Avatar
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    Wow just went back and looked at the 2020 draft. there is a really good case right now that Devon is a top 4/top 5 pick if they redraft it today.
    Apart from Edwards and Ball he's probably better than all the players picked before him. Halliburton, picked just after him, is probably better today though.

  4. #79
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    For career I like Basketball-Reference, because FiveThirtyEight doesn't seem to have a career version.

    Draft 2020 WS
    1. Haliburton
    2. Bane
    3. Maxey
    4. Stewart
    5. Ball
    6. Quickley
    7. Bey
    8. Okongwu
    9. Martin
    10. Edwards
    11. Pritchard
    12. Vassell

    20. Jones

    VORP
    1. Haliburton
    2. Ball
    3. Bane
    4. Maxey
    5. Edwards
    6. Quickley
    7. Bey
    8. Toppin
    9. Pritchard
    10. Vassell

    16. Jones

    WS/48
    19. Jones
    25. Vassell

    Above
    Fiesta colored glasses.
    Spurs develop their players slowly, so he’s only started 54/150 games. The only one that really indicts him is WS/48, since it’s not ulative.

  5. #80
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    The WS/48 list of that draft class features three (highly ranked) guys that I've been watching closely: Nick Richards of Charlotte, who's a FA after this season, Immanuel Quickley, who's supposedly available, and Paul Reed, who Doc Rivers doesn't seem to like very much. Richards could be prime back up center material if he continues to develop, Quickley is quintessential 6th/7th man material in the Derrick White mold, and Paul Reed is already a super versatile defender whose offense is still a work in progress.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2020.html

  6. #81
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    Wow just went back and looked at the 2020 draft. there is a really good case right now that Devon is a top 4/top 5 pick if they redraft it today.
    And that Haliburton is a top 2 pick. I still can't believe we passed on that gift.

  7. #82
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    And that Haliburton is a top 2 pick. I still can't believe we passed on that gift.
    His agent told everyone he wanted Sacto. The last thing you want from a late lottery pick is for him not to want to be there. Hilarious that they had him drop to them, and dumped him halfway through his second season.

  8. #83
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    You need a franchise guy, and then a core to build around. Think Tim, then Manu, Tony, Bruce. Core guys aren’t THE guy, they’re the OTHER guys. They’ll be the veteran, support presence, taking on much of the scoring load, kinda like Terry mings with David.

    Don’t sleep on Sochan, though. If he is a PG, and I think he has a high probability, he should have been a top 3 pick. 6’9” guys with court vision who can handle and pass off the bounce don’t grow on trees. Throw in top flight defender, and…
    I understand all that… what I’m saying is that I’m not seeing Manu or Tony in Devin or Sochan. We hung #12 up in the rafters, but Bruce doesn’t belong in the conversation as a core centerpiece guy.

    I will also admit, that Devin getting bullied for the game winning bucket by rookie Jalen Williams has provided some negative recency bias. He isn’t the great defender we make him out to be. He’s proving a good scorer on a terrible team… that actually isn’t all that impressive tbh. The same way I’m not that impressed with Jalen Green.

    Will he continue to improve? Probably. Is he worth considering a “core centerpiece” - no. As we should have all been reminded by now, there isn’t a single player on this team who should be considered untouchable. We are so far away from contention, that if Devin could get us a nice haul, you move him on out. His trade value hasn’t peaked yet though… so we can wait for that moment. Devin’s upside seems to be the third in a big-3… but we aren’t close to having a big 2 yet.

  9. #84
    Forum Official Personal Life Coach BacktoBasics's Avatar
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    I understand all that… what I’m saying is that I’m not seeing Manu or Tony in Devin or Sochan. We hung #12 up in the rafters, but Bruce doesn’t belong in the conversation as a core centerpiece guy.

    I will also admit, that Devin getting bullied for the game winning bucket by rookie Jalen Williams has provided some negative recency bias. He isn’t the great defender we make him out to be. He’s proving a good scorer on a terrible team… that actually isn’t all that impressive tbh. The same way I’m not that impressed with Jalen Green.

    Will he continue to improve? Probably. Is he worth considering a “core centerpiece” - no. As we should have all been reminded by now, there isn’t a single player on this team who should be considered untouchable. We are so far away from contention, that if Devin could get us a nice haul, you move him on out. His trade value hasn’t peaked yet though… so we can wait for that moment. Devin’s upside seems to be the third in a big-3… but we aren’t close to having a big 2 yet.
    I don’t like this take. A good haul to me implies multiple(probably 2) late to high mid 1sts and cap filler or relief for another team that views Devin as a complimentary piece.

    We’ve developed this guy into a solid starter. Yeah I get that averaging 22 on a team isn’t the same as averaging 18 on a contender but he’s young, excels in the system and would be exactly what you want in the modern nba alongside a legitimate all star. We’d be smart to hold our core, develop our two recent draft picks like we did Keldon and Vassell then draft out this offseason which looks like a top 8 pick.

    If that looks promising I’d package up our remaining picks for a game changer or to move up in 24.

    We’re ugly now but our squad has long term potential.

  10. #85
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I don’t like this take. A good haul to me implies multiple(probably 2) late to high mid 1sts and cap filler or relief for another team that views Devin as a complimentary piece.

    We’ve developed this guy into a solid starter. Yeah I get that averaging 22 on a team isn’t the same as averaging 18 on a contender but he’s young, excels in the system and would be exactly what you want in the modern nba alongside a legitimate all star. We’d be smart to hold our core, develop our two recent draft picks like we did Keldon and Vassell then draft out this offseason which looks like a top 8 pick.

    If that looks promising I’d package up our remaining picks for a game changer or to move up in 24.

    We’re ugly now but our squad has long term potential.
    id agree the package you theorized wouldn’t be enough. But I do think we overrate Devin because he’s the best player on a ty team. Simultaneously we have people who bag on SGA. It’s just typical Spurs fan fiesta-colored glasses

  11. #86
    Believe. jjspur's Avatar
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    Even if we land Wemby, getting rid of our better players is not a good idea. Sure you can trade them for some picks or younger players, but essentially you'll be tanking all over again, that's going backwards not forwards. Best case scenario is we land a top four pick and move on from there. We have a few expiring contracts or nearly expiring contracts, make the decision whether keep any of them or replace them with an equal or better player. That's when you stop tanking and start truly rebuilding the team. Devin ,Keldon and Sohan should be part of the spurs future. That' plus our draft pick is four fifths of a decent starting lineup. Everyone else including the other rookies are a tossup. Keeping Poeltl who is probably as good as he's ever gong to be will be a real tough decision considering what we might get inn return. The front office has its work cut out for them.
    Last edited by jjspur; 12-02-2022 at 11:23 AM.

  12. #87
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    ^ tanking isn’t a one year thing for this squad. We need 2-3 years of top lottery picks to even be a playoff team in the next 5 years.

  13. #88
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    ^ tanking isn’t a one year thing for this squad. We need 2-3 years of top lottery picks to even be a playoff team in the next 5 years.
    Yes, this is correct.

    Even if we won Wemby this year (12-14% chance), we will still lose next year. Moreover, our next big FA push might not come to summer '26 based on whose presently available. That is the summer you'd extend your top pick from this season and demonstrate a commitment to competing by signing an A-lister free agent. This is all assumes we've landed a MVP caliber guy in the lottery such who is capable of attracting a marquee free agent. The only guys on this roster who are likely to be here by '25 or 26 are Vassell, Sochan, and Wesley. Jones, perhaps. Nearly everyone or actually everyone else will have a new address by then.

    By the end of next season, the list of roster holdovers for summer '26 has hopefully expanded to 6 or 7 names. If so, this will be a good signal the Spurs are building something that will compete over many years.

  14. #89
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    Jordan won his first championship in his 7th season, Giannis in his 8th, and Lebron in his 9th, and with all of those guys, only Khris Middleton was around in the first year through the championship year alongside his superstar teammate... so even an extremely optimistic view of Wembanyama would likely mean a le in 2029 or 2030, with maybe one or two players currently on the roster. Other scenarios could certainly play out, but the odds are against them.

  15. #90
    The OL' Perfessor wildbill2u's Avatar
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    Jordan won his first championship in his 7th season, Giannis in his 8th, and Lebron in his 9th, and with all of those guys, only Khris Middleton was around in the first year through the championship year alongside his superstar teammate... so even an extremely optimistic view of Wembanyama would likely mean a le in 2029 or 2030, with maybe one or two players currently on the roster. Other scenarios could certainly play out, but the odds are against them.
    Those are really interesting facts about those superstars abiity to take a team to a championship in a realistic number of years. I don't understand how these teams eventually wound up with some complementary all-star talent around those superstars.

  16. #91
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    Los Angeles Lakers Trade Ideas Based on Latest Rumors | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

    Keep in mind it's from a Raptors fan boy/Spurs hater, but as underwhelming as it seems, value wise I wouldn't be surprised if this is about the best the Spurs could do.


    The only guys on this roster who are likely to be here by '25 or 26 are Vassell, Sochan, and Wesley. Jones, perhaps. Nearly everyone or actually everyone else will have a new address by then.


    At this writing, I'd say Vassell (malleability) is the only virtual lock to be a relatively long-term piece. Sochan and Jones stand good chances, the latter mainly because he's clearly being groomed to be the-all important "culture carrier".

    Don’t sleep on Sochan, though. If he is a PG, and I think he has a high probability, he should have been a top 3 pick.



    His agent told everyone he wanted Sacto. The last thing you want from a late lottery pick is for him not to want to be there.
    Just stop. It's okay to admit they blew it, end of story.
    Last edited by TD 21; 12-02-2022 at 06:16 PM.

  17. #92
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    The idea that #12 overall picks can write their own ticket for a desired destination is pretty wild. If it’s going to be the case, then then parity has really lost the plot.

  18. #93
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    Regarding Bleacher Report speculation of Poeltl/Richardson to Lakers...it does seem a little light on assets coming back, even with an unprotected FRP in the deal.

    The Spurs could, for example, trade Jak into the Clippers' TPE and take back an unprotected the same season. They'd still have Richardson to trade elsewhere, in that scenario, and SA would be probably land Brandon Boston in the deal as well. I'm not hot on that trade scenario, but it appears better than the BR Lakers scenario. If it's that easy to think of probable alternative deals...

    In the same light, Spurs could probably get Wiseman, Moody, and '26 unprotected from GS for Poeltl and Richardson, which is better than the proposed Lakers offer. I'd 1000% prefer Kuminga to Wiseman, but GS could easily beat the Lakers offer, imo.

    Future Lakers seconds are valuable picks, especially in the "double draft" year, which will either be '24 or '25. I would be quite happy to flip end of rotation vets for Lakers SRPs. I'd give up Collins or McDermott for the Lakers '23 SRP (or Chicago's '23 SRP, which Lakers control). McDermott for Beverly and Lakers '23 or 25 SRP works.

    Lakers and Golden State are sensible trade partners. Memphis and New Orleans have picks to spend, if they want to shore up with a vet. But the two teams I'm curious about are Nets and Knicks. Each will see itself as a playoff team, but any number of implosions could put those teams in the lottery. I don't see any obvious trade scenarios, but Poeltl to Nets or taking back Simmons (maybe in a three team that sees Collins go to Nets, Simmons to SA, stuff to ATL) are maybes. Keldon to Knicks is the only maybe trade scenario I see with NY.

  19. #94
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    Regarding Bleacher Report speculation of Poeltl/Richardson to Lakers...it does seem a little light on assets coming back, even with an unprotected FRP in the deal.

    The Spurs could, for example, trade Jak into the Clippers' TPE and take back an unprotected the same season. They'd still have Richardson to trade elsewhere, in that scenario, and SA would be probably land Brandon Boston in the deal as well. I'm not hot on that trade scenario, but it appears better than the BR Lakers scenario. If it's that easy to think of probable alternative deals...

    In the same light, Spurs could probably get Wiseman, Moody, and '26 unprotected from GS for Poeltl and Richardson, which is better than the proposed Lakers offer. I'd 1000% prefer Kuminga to Wiseman, but GS could easily beat the Lakers offer, imo.

    Future Lakers seconds are valuable picks, especially in the "double draft" year, which will either be '24 or '25. I would be quite happy to flip end of rotation vets for Lakers SRPs. I'd give up Collins or McDermott for the Lakers '23 SRP (or Chicago's '23 SRP, which Lakers control). McDermott for Beverly and Lakers '23 or 25 SRP works.

    Lakers and Golden State are sensible trade partners. Memphis and New Orleans have picks to spend, if they want to shore up with a vet. But the two teams I'm curious about are Nets and Knicks. Each will see itself as a playoff team, but any number of implosions could put those teams in the lottery. I don't see any obvious trade scenarios, but Poeltl to Nets or taking back Simmons (maybe in a three team that sees Collins go to Nets, Simmons to SA, stuff to ATL) are maybes. Keldon to Knicks is the only maybe trade scenario I see with NY.

    Have a hard time believing that GS will send out an unprotected 1st, especially if they know that the window on Curry/Klay/Dray is over this year or the next...

  20. #95
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Have a hard time believing that GS will send out an unprotected 1st, especially if they know that the window on Curry/Klay/Dray is over this year or the next...
    Nor could they send a FRP until 2028.

  21. #96
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Nor could they send a FRP until 2028.
    2026. Their only currently obligated FRP is 2024.

  22. #97
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    2026. Their only currently obligated FRP is 2024.
    That pick has protections until 2026.

  23. #98
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    Could spurs be 3rd team to help facilitate a LAL-NYK trade?

    LAL—> Reddish; Richardson
    NYK—> Beverly; Nunn
    SAS—> Founier; NYK FRP; LAL FRP (protected)

  24. #99
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    His agent told everyone he wanted Sacto. The last thing you want from a late lottery pick is for him not to want to be there. Hilarious that they had him drop to them, and dumped him halfway through his second season.
    He's playing fine in Indiana. More than fine. Letting a late lottery pick determine where he wants to play with threats is rather stupid.

  25. #100
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    Could spurs be 3rd team to help facilitate a LAL-NYK trade?

    LAL—> Reddish; Richardson
    NYK—> Beverly; Nunn
    SAS—> Founier; NYK FRP; LAL FRP (protected)
    Are LA and NY rumored to be working a deal around Reddish, Nunn, and Bev?

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