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  1. #376
    Believe. PhantomDashCam's Avatar
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    Like it or not we are probably going to have to pay/overpay Tre Jones. PG is an important position; even for a terrible, talentless team like ourselves. Sochan will never be a PG and Wesley is 2 yrs away from being 2 yrs away so unless we draft a solid PG or overpay a vet Tre Jones is running point for the foreseeable future.
    From what I've seen so far this season, the Spurs have taken a by committee approach to PG whenever Tre Jones is off the court (and even sometimes when he is on it).

    Tre is a very good player but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with him being a Full-Time Helm-er (something he's likely earned), with a team that's mediocre from distance Offensively and/or lacks significant impact players Defensively.

  2. #377
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    From what I've seen so far this season, the Spurs have taken a by committee approach to PG whenever Tre Jones is off the court (and even sometimes when he is on it).

    Tre is a very good player but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with him being a Full-Time Helm-er (something he's likely earned), with a team that's mediocre from distance Offensively and/or lacks significant impact players Defensively.
    The way I see it, the same way Doig McDermott is important as a guy who can shoot the three and move well without the ball, we need a semi traditional PG to run an offence. Backup point can he shared by committee but unless you have a guy like DDR or Manu you can’t get away with not having a true PG so I think that gives Tre a strong likelihood of being retained at a value near or even >MLE.

  3. #378
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    The way I see it, the same way Doig McDermott is important as a guy who can shoot the three and move well without the ball, we need a semi traditional PG to run an offence. Backup point can he shared by committee but unless you have a guy like DDR or Manu you can’t get away with not having a true PG so I think that gives Tre a strong likelihood of being retained at a value near or even >MLE.
    That sounds WAAAY too high for Tre IMO. For one, his role is artificially inflated by being gifted the helm of a tanking team without any other PG. In no other context would he be getting the minutes or chances he's getting on the Spurs. That's sure to count for anyone interested in him, which is why I don't see a huge market for him just yet. If he is smart (which he seems to be) he'd be much better served taking a team friendly 3 year deal which allows him to grow with the team, and he'll eventually get his big payday in few years. Or he could go somewhere for a few extra bucks and get buried or exposed. I'd give up some money to continue with the Spurs if I were him (3 yrs / 20-25M? maybe last year PO?).
    Last edited by Ariel; 01-18-2023 at 09:49 PM.

  4. #379
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    I came up with this trade about a month ago on the trade machine and it was successful. I know some people aren’t high on the warriors players but they are young and would actually have a chance to thrive with playing time. The games I’ve seen they have actually started playing well of late before their injuries. This trade would give the Spurs much needed size and athleticism and Kuminga would give us a defensive player in a Wiggins mold. Wiseman started playing defense better and with more playing time and some tutoring from David Robinson should get him were he needs to be. Baldwin’s 3 point shooting would replace McDermott’s shooting.
    © SUCCESS
    Spurs
    +4 players ($17.6m) +1 pick,
    Cap Impact - $7.4M
    JaMychal Green
    PF. 6' 8"
    James Wiseman
    C, 7’0”
    Jonathan Kuminga
    PF 6'8"
    Patrick Baldwin Jr.
    SF 6' 9"
    2023 - Round 1 Top 3 Protected


    Warriors
    +3 players ($23.1m) +1 pick,
    Cap Impact + $3.7 M
    Doug McDermott
    SF 6' 7"
    Jakob Poeltl
    C, 7' 1"
    Keita Bates-Diop
    SF 6' 8"
    2023 - Round 1
    via CHA

    Cut JaMychal Green or reroute him somewhere else. Also we are essentially trading the Charlotte pick for a guaranteed 1st round pick from Golden State which is only top 3 protected. They can go all the way but their play could also end up giving us another lottery pick, especially if they suffer more and more injuries. I like Jakob but it is malpractice not to trade him just because you hope to win the Wembanyama lottery based on an at best 14% chance. If we do win Wembanyama then the Spurs still have cap room to sign Jakob to whatever deal they want in free agency even without having bird rights.

  5. #380
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    That sounds WAAAY too high for Tre IMO. For one, his role is artificially inflated by being gifted the helm of a tanking team without any other PG. In no other context would he be getting the minutes or chances he's getting on the Spurs. That's sure to count for anyone interested in him, which is why I don't see a huge market for him just yet. If he is smart (which he seems to be) he'd be much better served taking a team friendly 3 year deal which allows him to grow with the team, and he'll eventually get his big payday in few years. Or he could go somewhere for a few extra bucks and get buried or exposed. I'd give up some money to continue with the Spurs if I were him (3 yrs / 20-25M? maybe last year PO?).
    3yrs 25mm is basically what I described above. MLE is the higher end of what a team could throw at him which is 10.5mm

  6. #381
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Golden State owes its '24 1st to Memphis, and thus cannot trade their '23 1st. Also WAAAY too optimistic.

  7. #382
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Lol, no contender can trade any picks. It's amazing.

  8. #383
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Pop, KJ, Pootle, Richardson and McDermott and the Spurs #1 pick protected
    for
    Jokic, Murray

  9. #384
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    Golden State owes its '24 1st to Memphis, and thus cannot trade their '23 1st. Also WAAAY too optimistic.
    Yes it’s optimistic but like I said I came up with it about a month ago before Steph got hurt and their young picks actually started getting playing time and showing promise. Before then this trade could have been plausible because we’re now taking the chance on the young players who had not shown anything through the beginning of their third season. Golden State would have been getting the better players and actual veterans that could fit seamlessly into the team and help them. After Steph got injured Kuminga started showing Wiggins-type defensive ability and Baldwin in limited time started showing 3point sniper ability. Even Wiseman started showing promise in the games he was in which is why I wanted to do the trade before Steph got injured and Golden State was forced to give their young players actual playing time. I figured eventually with playing time they would show something and being in San Antonio with the players we have they could get all the playing time they need. We are not going for championships right now and could afford to play and develop them through their mistakes.

    Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also. After I revised the trade it no longer mentioned it. We do that and we can get their pick because otherwise we start having to wait on their pick conveying to Memphis and then after that we’d have to wait 2 years more before they could trade their own pick.

  10. #385
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also.
    In your scenario Golden State would owe picks in consecutive years (even if restricted), whereas the Charlotte pick they'd be getting isn't guaranteed to convey in '23 or '24 (in fact it's very likely it doesn't in either year). That means they're not guaranteed a pick for 2 years in a row (there's a pathway to them not getting one), which violates the Stepien rule. It's a no go.
    Last edited by Ariel; 01-19-2023 at 10:01 AM.

  11. #386
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/ins...al-predictions

    San Antonio Spurs

    Trade meter: 10

    What to watch: Cap space and the veterans

    There is no shortage of deadline deal options for the Spurs.

    As the trade with the Celtics in early January confirmed, San Antonio is open to taking back unwanted contracts if cash or draft picks are attached. The Spurs still have $27.7 million cap space and an open roster spot, so they do not have to send out a comparable contract in a deal.

    For example, San Antonio could take on Russell Westbrook's salary in a trade by sending out Doug McDermott, Jakob Poeltl and Josh Richardson, and not have to come within 125% of matching Westbrook's contract.

    San Antonio is also $15.9 million below the minimum salary floor (90% of the cap). If the Spurs do not reach the floor, they have to distribute the shortfall among their own players. It should be noted that the salary owed to a player at the time and not his cap hit counts toward the floor.

    The Spurs currently have the seventh-youngest roster in the NBA and two veterans -- Poeltl and Richardson -- who are on expiring contracts.

    Poeltl is one of the more coveted trade candidates but has had some slippage this season defensively. Last season, Poeltl held opponents to 54.8% shooting at the rim per Second Spectrum tracking, a mark that has jumped to 63.9% in 2022-23. In addition, opponents have shot 49.6% when Poeltl contests any shot attempt this season. Last season, that figure was 46.0%.

    If the return package is below average for Poeltl, San Antonio can hold on to the center until the offseason and explore sign-and-trade options, similar to what occurred in 2021 with DeMar DeRozan.

    Front-office trade history: Before last season, San Antonio had made only one regular-season trade since 2014. Last January and February, the Spurs made four, acquiring four draft picks, including two firsts.

    Last regular-season trade: Traded Derrick White to the Celtics for Richardson, Romeo Langford, a 2022 first-round pick (Blake Wesley) and the right to swap firsts in 2028 (top-one protected)

    Trade we would like to see: A three-team trade with San Antonio, New York and Phoenix. The Spurs receive Dario Saric, Evan Fournier, a 2023 top-14-protected first (via Washington) and a 2024 top-14-protected first from Phoenix (will turn into a 2024 and 2025 second-round picks if not conveyed). Phoenix will receive Jakob Poeltl and Cam Reddish. New York will receive Jae Crowder and Josh Okogie.

    Trade exceptions: None

    Cash available: $6.4 million (to send out), $4.83 million (to receive)

    Salary info and restrictions:

    The Spurs have $27.8 million in available cap space and an open roster spot.

    Keldon Johnson has a poison-pill restriction in his contract. For trade purposes, he counts as $3.8 million in outgoing salary and $15.6 million in incoming salary for the acquiring team.

    Stanley Johnson cannot be traded.

    Draft assets:

    The Spurs have their own first in the next seven years.

    The Spurs are owed a first-round pick from Charlotte.

    The pick is top-16 protected in 2023 and top-14 protected in 2024 and 2025.

    The Spurs are owed unprotected first-round picks from Atlanta in 2025 and 2027.

    The Spurs also have the right to swap firsts in 2026. If Chicago sends a first to Orlando in 2023, then the Spurs will receive a 2025 top-10-protected first-round pick from the Bulls.

    The pick is top-eight protected in 2026, 2027 and 2028.

    San Antonio has the right to swap firsts with Boston in 2028.

    The pick is top-one protected.

    The Spurs have 13 second-round picks available to use in a trade.

  12. #387
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    https://theathletic.com/4089003/2023...minga-wiseman/

    Warriors Prioritizing Addition Of Wing Over Extra Big Man

    The Golden State Warriors have more interest in adding a multi-positional wing than an extra big man, sources tell Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

    The Warriors expect to have either Draymond Green or Kevon Looney, or both on the floor during nearly every playoff minute, which decreases the need for depth at the position.

    Otto Porter Jr. fit the role of the kind of wing they're looking for last season.

    Jalen McDaniels, Darius Bazley, Rui Hachimura and Obi Toppin are players that would be well suited for the role and all are reportedly available, but the price would likely be too steep for the Warriors.

    The Warriors may instead have better luck on the buyout market.

  13. #388
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Warriors got lucky facing no good or only crippled bigs in the playoffs last year. May not be so lucky this time.

  14. #389
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yes it’s optimistic but like I said I came up with it about a month ago before Steph got hurt and their young picks actually started getting playing time and showing promise. Before then this trade could have been plausible because we’re now taking the chance on the young players who had not shown anything through the beginning of their third season. Golden State would have been getting the better players and actual veterans that could fit seamlessly into the team and help them. After Steph got injured Kuminga started showing Wiggins-type defensive ability and Baldwin in limited time started showing 3point sniper ability. Even Wiseman started showing promise in the games he was in which is why I wanted to do the trade before Steph got injured and Golden State was forced to give their young players actual playing time. I figured eventually with playing time they would show something and being in San Antonio with the players we have they could get all the playing time they need. We are not going for championships right now and could afford to play and develop them through their mistakes.

    Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also. After I revised the trade it no longer mentioned it. We do that and we can get their pick because otherwise we start having to wait on their pick conveying to Memphis and then after that we’d have to wait 2 years more before they could trade their own pick.
    That only works if Charlottes pick is unprotected, and guaranteed to convey. A conditional pick doesn’t satisfy the requirement.

  15. #390
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    https://theathletic.com/4089003/2023...minga-wiseman/

    Warriors Prioritizing Addition Of Wing Over Extra Big Man

    The Golden State Warriors have more interest in adding a multi-positional wing than an extra big man, sources tell Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

    The Warriors expect to have either Draymond Green or Kevon Looney, or both on the floor during nearly every playoff minute, which decreases the need for depth at the position.

    Otto Porter Jr. fit the role of the kind of wing they're looking for last season.

    Jalen McDaniels, Darius Bazley, Rui Hachimura and Obi Toppin are players that would be well suited for the role and all are reportedly available, but the price would likely be too steep for the Warriors.

    The Warriors may instead have better luck on the buyout market.
    I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

    Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

    I kinda think I would.

  16. #391
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

    Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

    I kinda think I would.
    Poeltl is a good upgrade on Looney.

    And absolutely ing not on giving up any assets for Wiseman. Are you cracked?

  17. #392
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    I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

    Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

    I kinda think I would.
    Wiseman isn't an asset or target....he's salary ballast....you don't pay for ballast..

  18. #393
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

    Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

    I kinda think I would.
    Wiseman.Is.Trash.

    Thank you for attending my TEDtalk.

  19. #394
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    Wiseman isn't an asset or target....he's salary ballast....you don't pay for ballast..
    I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

    I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.

  20. #395
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    I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

    I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.
    Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

    If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..

  21. #396
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/ins...al-predictions

    "For example, San Antonio could take on Russell Westbrook's salary in a trade by sending out Doug McDermott, Jakob Poeltl and Josh Richardson, and not have to come within 125% of matching Westbrook's contract."
    .
    ESPN daydreaming about Wright becoming the worst GM in NBA history to help the desperate Lakers.

  22. #397
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

    If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..
    Also, Wiseman's rookie deal is about to enter its last year at around 12M, so it's not like you've got him tied long term at a cheap deal waiting for his development. Any 2nd rounder can be had for MUCH, MUCH cheaper. These times the first round is mostly about potential, but usually in the early 2nd there are older prospects to be had who can be very solid players for a long time, who can give you performance right out of the gates at a bargain price (Dillon Brooks, Jalen Brunson, Mitc Robinson, Terance Mann, Herb Jones, Nembhard), or other players whose potential may not be that high but can grow to be good role players for a long time (Jarred Vanderbilt, Nic Claxton, Tre Jones, Ayo Dosunmu, etc). IMO that's where you find value these days in the 2nd round, and this year we're likely having a very good 2nd rounder which can be used to snatch someone like that.
    Summing up, Wiseman is too raw and expensive and he may leave too soon, for any such move to be worth it IMO.

  23. #398
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

    I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.
    Richardson enjoys playing for Pop and the Spurs. He looked genuinely downcast at the exit media day last year, because I think he was told that he’d be shopped. I doubt he’d press for a buyout, and the Spurscertainly won’t need the cap savings. Maybe this is the year we start holding the line on buyouts.

  24. #399
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    Richardson enjoys playing for Pop and the Spurs. He looked genuinely downcast at the exit media day last year, because I think he was told that he’d be shopped. I doubt he’d press for a buyout, and the Spurscertainly won’t need the cap savings. Maybe this is the year we start holding the line on buyouts.
    I also hope the Spurs don't buy out Richardson. It could give them some leverage in trade scenarios too, if the Spurs say there won't be a buyout and other teams believe it.

  25. #400
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    Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

    If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..
    Fair enough, I’ll just note that for every Tre Jones there are 3 George McClintocks.

    You know what I just pieced together between this exchange and with ESPN is ginning up its “Bonny has a real shot at making the NBA!” narrative? Owning that LAL 2024 SRP now acquires its own special value. Im holding on to that one if I’m the spurs!!

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