Who does not want the Spurs to tank?

**jjspur** · 12-28-2022

The precious "culture" left when Duncan and Ginobili retired and the dynasty wasn't founded on that, but what all of them are: a combination of great talent and fit.

Trying in vain to maintain that is arrogant, foolish and tone deaf. The league is 75-80% black, the majority of which are from the inner city and they mostly don't identify with it.

By the way, it's a 28% chance for Wembanyama and Henderson if you finish last and a guaranteed top 5 pick. Find me better odds of a non glamor market getting a young centerpiece.

"The process" produced a MVP caliber player, another borderline All-NBA player (for a while) and gave them the opportunity to draft another borderline MVP player (Tatum).

Embiid being annually injured in the playoffs, Simmons and him being terrible fits, Fultz going bust and their inability to make the pieces fit (until now) don't change the fact that it was a rousing success.

Lets do a comparison: Like you said the 76ers with the process have a MVP caliber player, another borderline All-NBA player (for a while) and gave them the opportunity to draft another borderline MVP player (Tatum) Very nice pieces yes, but no chip or any kind of trophy or ring to show for all their tanking.

The Golden state Warriors on the other hand have 4 championships and 5 western conference les with only two players drafted in the top 7 and no #1 picks in the last 10 years It seems good trading, smart drafting and a willingness to go over the cap gets more chips than tanking. That also applies to the six other teams with championship rings (including our spurs) that didn't tank.

So this isn't about team culture or anything. Tanking can get you so far, but making smart basketball decisions can historically get you further. For at least a decade its been an option that has worked. Tanking for the bottom of the standings and then slowly moving up, not so much. You can't change history.

**MultiTroll** · 12-28-2022

Originally Posted by jjspur

For at least a decade its been an option that has worked. Tanking for the bottom of the standings and then slowly moving up, not so much. You can't change history.

When a generational talent becomes available in the draft it is completely different from other years. Generational players change affect their teams for the better for a decade or more. Sure, a lot of them came into good teams but the Gen player absolutely lifted them for years if not a decade plus.

Timmy Dunkar, Lebron.
Before that Kream, Magic-Bird, Jordan, Shaq.
Billy Russell and Wilt the Stilt.

It's been 20 years since Lebron came in so we are overdue for a real game changer.
Wama has that kind of potential.

**tonight...you** · 12-28-2022

Originally Posted by Mul roll

When a generational talent becomes available in the draft it is completely different from other years. Generational players change affect their teams for the better for a decade or more. Sure, a lot of them came into good teams but the Gen player absolutely lifted them for years if not a decade plus.

Timmy Dunkar, Lebron.
Before that Kream, Magic-Bird, Jordan, Shaq.
Billy Russell and Wilt the Stilt.

It's been 20 years since Lebron came in so we are overdue for a real game changer.
Wama has that kind of potential.

Then, for at least that year, culture be damned.
And, given the talent, the next year too.

I don't know. I just know that this is a talent driven league.

But also look at the Mavs.

Generational talent and else around him and else going to be around him.
They're in the turnstile.

What to do... what to do...

**MultiTroll** · 12-28-2022

Originally Posted by tonight...you

Then, for at least that year, culture be damned.
And, given the talent, the next year too.

I don't know. I just know that this is a talent driven league.

But also look at the Mavs.

Generational talent and else around him and else going to be around him.
They're in the turnstile.

What to do... what to do...

Fair to say virtually all the Generation players got great help, including our own Timmy Duncan. David Robinson already here.
GNob and Prime Parker was a score, along with great role players. Robert Horry, cmon man he is a playoff and Finals icon in my book.

So ya Doncic has had ass around him.

**tonight...you** · 12-28-2022

Originally Posted by Mul roll

Fair to say virtually all the Generation players got great help, including our own Timmy Duncan. David Robinson already here.
GNob and Prime Parker was a score, along with great role players. Robert Horry, cmon man he is a playoff and Finals icon in my book.

So ya Doncic has had ass around him.

Yeah. Something to think about, yes?
Timmy went into a ready-made champ-in-making and the FO kept it going, which was amazing.

I don't think we'll ever see that again here.

Here's to hoping though.

**TD 21** · 12-28-2022

Originally Posted by jjspur

Lets do a comparison: Like you said the 76ers with the process have a MVP caliber player, another borderline All-NBA player (for a while) and gave them the opportunity to draft another borderline MVP player (Tatum) Very nice pieces yes, but no chip or any kind of trophy or ring to show for all their tanking.

The Golden state Warriors on the other hand have 4 championships and 5 western conference les with only two players drafted in the top 7 and no #1 picks in the last 10 years It seems good trading, smart drafting and a willingness to go over the cap gets more chips than tanking. That also applies to the six other teams with championship rings (including our spurs) that didn't tank.

So this isn't about team culture or anything. Tanking can get you so far, but making smart basketball decisions can historically get you further. For at least a decade its been an option that has worked. Tanking for the bottom of the standings and then slowly moving up, not so much. You can't change history.

"The process" was about getting elite talent and they did so. It's also far easier to select it at the top of the draft than it is to be the team trying to find the needle in the haystack.

The Warriors are frauds who've done nothing but avoid and face teams decimated by injury in the playoffs while begging the second best player of their generation to join them because they were too cowardly to compete.

Like many, you give front offices executives far too much credit. It mostly comes down a combination of luck and not shooting yourself in the foot.

**scott** · 12-29-2022

NBA should bring back “territorial picks” (this is how Wilt and Bill Russell got drafted). Spurs should get claim to all Frenchman by virtue of Tony and Bobo.

**scott** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by TD 21

"The process" was about getting elite talent and they did so. It's also far easier to select it at the top of the draft than it is to be the team trying to find the needle in the haystack.

The Warriors are frauds who've done nothing but avoid and face teams decimated by injury in the playoffs while begging the second best player of their generation to join them because they were too cowardly to compete.

Like many, you give front offices executives far too much credit. It mostly comes down a combination of luck and not shooting yourself in the foot.

You only get to play the teams that are put in front of you. Diminishing 4 chips is some Phil Jackson level petty bull .

**JPB** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by TD 21

Like many, you give front offices executives far too much credit. It mostly comes down a combination of luck and not shooting yourself in the foot.

This is true in general but spurs front office still used to deserve credit for guys like Manu, TP, Bowen or Nephew who was clearly the #1 pick of his draft and spurs traded for at #15... (but they lucked into Duncan like Bulls lucked into Portland not picking MJ)...

But I would say that time is over and every team has hyper professional scouting crews that make Nephews slippery improbable nowadays. So yeah, it boils donw to luck and not ing up with that...

Philly got great talent but got bad luck with embiid's health and probably couldn't imagine Simmons would be a headcase.... But spurs experienced that with Nephew too, so..

**Mr. Body** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by scott

You only get to play the teams that are put in front of you. Diminishing 4 chips is some Phil Jackson level petty bull .

Is okay to be petty. The Durant era championships agree hilariously bull . Last year the whole NBA sucked. It's okay to admit these things.

**K...** · 12-29-2022

Spurs get a two win streak and people lose their ing minds. The spurs are tanking, so be it, they're not being as tanky as Houston because they value player growth. I dont get much value from crying my team missed a 14% chance and instead got 25%. Some people here are very close to arguing that the players should be euthanized for victor and i so NO to that.

**LeBowen** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by K...

Spurs get a two win streak and people lose their ing minds. The spurs are tanking, so be it, they're not being as tanky as Houston because they value player growth. I dont get much value from crying my team missed a 14% chance and instead got 25%. Some people here are very close to arguing that the players should be euthanized for victor and i so NO to that.

Rockets, Pistons and Hornets are all disgustingly bad and hopeless teams, Rockets being the worst of the bunch.
Pistons lost Cade and Hornets just got Lamelo back.

Spurs just can't get that bad because for all the lack of talent, we're still a well-ran team with good system in place. Rockets are keeping useless Silas because they know he guarantees top3 worst odds at the end of the season.

Magic got their full roster back and they started winning. Others have at least some talent.
Tbh, Spurs are a lock for 4th best odds unless Hornets get healthy and start playing actual basketball.

The only thing that can be done is trading Jakob, JRich and Doug. And that wouldn't be enough to be worse than Rockets.

**rascal** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by jjspur

Lets do a comparison: Like you said the 76ers with the process have a MVP caliber player, another borderline All-NBA player (for a while) and gave them the opportunity to draft another borderline MVP player (Tatum) Very nice pieces yes, but no chip or any kind of trophy or ring to show for all their tanking.

The Golden state Warriors on the other hand have 4 championships and 5 western conference les with only two players drafted in the top 7 and no #1 picks in the last 10 years It seems good trading, smart drafting and a willingness to go over the cap gets more chips than tanking. That also applies to the six other teams with championship rings (including our spurs) that didn't tank.

So this isn't about team culture or anything. Tanking can get you so far, but making smart basketball decisions can historically get you further. For at least a decade its been an option that has worked. Tanking for the bottom of the standings and then slowly moving up, not so much. You can't change history.

Spurs did tank / had a tank season to end up getting Duncan. No Duncan there would not likely be any championships in San Antonio.

**jjspur** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by rascal

Spurs did tank / had a tank season to end up getting Duncan. No Duncan there would not likely be any championships in San Antonio.

All 100% true, but I'm talking about the last 10 years, not in the previous century. Please read carefully next time.

**jjspur** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by scott

You only get to play the teams that are put in front of you. Diminishing 4 chips is some Phil Jackson level petty bull .

Couldn't agree more. Comparing it to Phil Jackson is some funny but accurate .

**TD 21** · 12-29-2022

Originally Posted by scott

You only get to play the teams that are put in front of you. Diminishing 4 chips is some Phil Jackson level petty bull .

Results without context.

Even if you want to play that game, what about the two with Durant? And if you're not going to dock them any points for those, then be sure to do the same for him.

Originally Posted by JPB

This is true in general but spurs front office still used to deserve credit for guys like Manu, TP, Bowen or Nephew who was clearly the #1 pick of his draft and spurs traded for at #15... (but they lucked into Duncan like Bulls lucked into Portland not picking MJ)...

But I would say that time is over and every team has hyper professional scouting crews that make Nephews slippery improbable nowadays. So yeah, it boils donw to luck and not ing up with that...

Philly got great talent but got bad luck with embiid's health and probably couldn't imagine Simmons would be a headcase.... But spurs experienced that with Nephew too, so..

Mostly luck too. I'll give them some credit for Parker and S bag developmentally, but even then, the former was only available because a retied Auerbach overruled the staff and demanded they select Forte because he went to a program (UNC) he knew and the latter the Spurs supposedly preferred Valanciunas and Thompson.