Pelé Eterno

[DAF86]

Personally, he's TOP 3 for me:

Elite Tier:
Messi = Pelé = Maradona


Tier II (no particular order):
Ronaldo
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Z. Zidane
G. Müller
F. Beckenbauer
J. Cruyff
M. Platini
A. Di Stéfano
Garrincha
P. Maldini


Tier III (no particular order):
Romário
R. Carlos
M. Kempes
G. Batistuta
H. Sanchez
A. Pirlo
Rivelino
M. van Basten
A. Iniesta
Eusébio
G. Buffon
Cafu
G. Best
F. Puskás
K. M'Bappe
D. Bergkamp
T. Henry


Tier IV (no particular order):
Z. Ibrahimovic
Tostao
Zico
L. Modric
P. Schmeichel
Neymar
K. Benzema
A. Di Maria
X. Hernandez
L. Matthäus
R. Baggio
O. Kahn
B. Moore
R. Gullit
Sócrates
M. Neuer
R. Giggs
F. Rijkaard


Tier V (no particular order):
W. Rooney
B. Laudrup
Kaká
F. Baresi
C. Puyol
P. Kluivert
Jairzinho
G. Hagi
S. Agüero
R. Lewandowski
J. Mascherano
D. Beckham
E. Cantona
L. Thuram
R. van Persie

That first tier is pretty fair, imho.

I think the second tier should be just Distefano and Cruyff. The only players besides the top 3 to have dominated their eras without any argument.

Then you have your Zidanes, Ronaldos, Ronaldinhos, Plattinis, etc.

[Phenomanul]

Fernando Niembro Why would anyone take what he has to say with any kind of relevancy?

Funnily enough, all the guys featured here are known Messi haters, except for Menotti who can't hate him publicly but it is known for downplaying Messi's game many times. Once, he even said Iniesta was better. That Newell's-Rosario Central rivalry runs deep, tbh.

Settle down... I'm not trying to knock on Messi. He's my favorite player ever, BY FAR.

The biggest argument against Pelé's greatness these days is that very few of us are his contemporaries or even saw him play. These players witnessed both Maradona and Pelé in their primes so don't downplay their descriptions of Pelé's capabilities.

Messi is not in the discussion here. It's pretty clear that he's established himself as the best ever, or right there at the top of the heap. I'm simply presenting eye-witness testimony from those that actually saw Pelé play. Their descriptions don't hold back their sense of complete marvel at what they saw. As a side note, it's pretty funny they simply refer to him as "El Negro".

[Phenomanul]

The biter L. Suárez is probably Tier IV... I just can't stand his antics... so it's no wonder I forgot him initially.

[Phenomanul]

Personally, he's TOP 3 for me:

Elite Tier:
L. Messi = Pelé = D. Maradona


Tier II (no particular order):
Ronaldo
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Z. Zidane
G. Müller
F. Beckenbauer
J. Cruyff
M. Platini
A. Di Stéfano
Garrincha
P. Maldini


Tier III (no particular order):
Romário
R. Carlos
M. Kempes
G. Batistuta
H. Sanchez
A. Pirlo
Rivelino
Rivaldo
M. van Basten
A. Iniesta
Eusébio
G. Buffon
Cafu
G. Best
F. Puskás
K. M'Bappe
D. Bergkamp
T. Henry
Mágico González


Tier IV (no particular order):
Z. Ibrahimovic
Tostao
Zico
L. Modric
P. Schmeichel
Neymar
K. Benzema
A. Di Maria
X. Hernandez
L. Matthäus
R. Baggio
O. Kahn
B. Moore
R. Gullit
Sócrates
M. Neuer
R. Giggs
F. Rijkaard
L. Suárez
E. Francescoli


Tier V (no particular order):
W. Rooney
B. Laudrup
Kaká
F. Baresi
C. Puyol
P. Kluivert
Raúl González
Jairzinho
G. Hagi
S. Agüero
R. Lewandowski
J. Mascherano
D. Beckham
E. Cantona
L. Thuram
R. van Persie
Bebeto
M. Klose


Updated list... I added el Mágico González (Maradona's favorite player). Based on talent alone (too bad he was Mr. Night Party).

[FrostKing]

Impressive list, I think you forgot Klinsmann and Figo

I'd take Robben over Benzema. Di Maria not sure he even belongs on this list, definitely not Tier 4. [Di Maria vs Ribery or even Bale]. I'd drop Benzema, Di Maria and Suarez down 1 list. Suarez at Liverpool that 1 season was really impressive though.

Lahm is considered an all time great at his position and won everything. Muller has impressive overall portfolio but little individual accolades.

Xabi Alonso, Ballack, Drogba, Scholes and Roy Keane are other names. Fernando Torres. Casillas.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pele's WCs are the only argument people have when analyzing careers between him and Messi to determine the GOAT, but those are team accomplishments and when you really dig deep into them, you realize in one Pelé barely played and in another he wasn't even Brazil's best players. And a case could be made for Brazil still winning all of those WC's even without Pelé. That's how stacked those Brazilian teams were. Imagine this current Argentina squad winning without Messi or Argentina winning without Maradona in '86. That's why despite the WC treble, most folks still place Messi and Maradona over Pele.

Well said

[TDMVPDPOY]

this clown passing away. just elevates his ranking...

just like how the rapist tried going through a mountain and we all know what happen to him...yet u have fkn clowns always putting him above themselves aka snaq hoping rest of the world follows on and have the chum in the top10 lists...when in fact with or without the mountain accident his not top10

so what does missi have to do, to get over pele?

[Phenomanul]

this clown passing away. just elevates his ranking...

just like how the rapist tried going through a mountain and we all know what happen to him...yet u have fkn clowns always putting him above themselves aka snaq hoping rest of the world follows on and have the chum in the top10 lists...when in fact with or without the mountain accident his not top10

so what does missi have to do, to get over pele?

Quit trying to put him in a grave.

[ElNono]

Personally, he's TOP 3 for me:

Elite Tier:
L. Messi = Pelé = D. Maradona


Tier II (no particular order):
Ronaldo
Cristiano Ronaldo
Ronaldinho
Z. Zidane
G. Müller
F. Beckenbauer
J. Cruyff
M. Platini
A. Di Stéfano
Garrincha
P. Maldini


Tier III (no particular order):
Romário
R. Carlos
M. Kempes
G. Batistuta
H. Sanchez
A. Pirlo
Rivelino
Rivaldo
M. van Basten
A. Iniesta
Eusébio
G. Buffon
Cafu
G. Best
F. Puskás
K. M'Bappe
D. Bergkamp
T. Henry
Mágico González


Tier IV (no particular order):
Z. Ibrahimovic
Tostao
Zico
L. Modric
P. Schmeichel
Neymar
K. Benzema
A. Di Maria
X. Hernandez
L. Matthäus
R. Baggio
O. Kahn
B. Moore
R. Gullit
Sócrates
M. Neuer
R. Giggs
F. Rijkaard
L. Suárez


Tier V (no particular order):
W. Rooney
B. Laudrup
Kaká
F. Baresi
C. Puyol
P. Kluivert
Raúl González
Jairzinho
G. Hagi
S. Agüero
R. Lewandowski
J. Mascherano
D. Beckham
E. Cantona
L. Thuram
R. van Persie

I can get behind this list tbh

[ElNono]

My problem with Pele is that I have to take whomever word for it, since I just didn’t watch him play and the videos available look like those black and white NBA videos of Bob Cousy dribbling around white folk that look like headless chicken.

But, as somebody that agrees that football in the Maradona era was vastly different from the current era, I can agree they were head and shoulders better than their peers on their respective eras.

[ElNono]

I’ll just say Maradona and Messi are the only two players I saw that could mesmerize you over and over again watching them. And you know it was pure innate talent because it was effortless. They just had it, whatever it is/was.

[Phenomanul]

My problem with Pele is that I have to take whomever word for it, since I just didn’t watch him play and the videos available look like those black and white NBA videos of Bob Cousy dribbling around white folk that look like headless chicken.

But, as somebody that agrees that football in the Maradona era was vastly different from the current era, I can agree they were head and shoulders better than their peers on their respective eras.

You have to remember that he played in an era where they would pummel the living crap out of offensive players - without repercussions.

In an era where the technology of a player’s shoes, shin guards, socks and especially the ball itself were remarkably lackluster compared to today’s equipment. Even the quality of the pitch itself was eons worse than what professional players enjoy today. So yeah, the “game speed” of what you see in old football reels is connected to the weight and the play of the balls in that era. They were appreciably heavier.

Last but not least, Pelé and Maradona both played in an era where the science of physical trainers/preparedness and sports diets were still in their infancy - this also factored in giving them lower physical peaks compared against today’s players - but it shouldn’t diminish, as you said, the performance gaps that they created above their respective peers.

If you look at the list I generated, you will notice that unlike basketball or football it isn’t heavily inclined towards one race in particular. Soccer requires more than just physical potency, the greats all had skill and the mental capacity to complement the physical components. Which is why the Bob Cousy example of 50s era NBA is not exactly transitive with the same era in world soccer - the racial integration component was not as big of a deal in the latter sport.

[DAF86]

Settle down... I'm not trying to knock on Messi. He's my favorite player ever, BY FAR.

The biggest argument against Pelé's greatness these days is that very few of us are his contemporaries or even saw him play. These players witnessed both Maradona and Pelé in their primes so don't downplay their descriptions of Pelé's capabilities.

Messi is not in the discussion here. It's pretty clear that he's established himself as the best ever, or right there at the top of the heap. I'm simply presenting eye-witness testimony from those that actually saw Pelé play. Their descriptions don't hold back their sense of complete marvel at what they saw. As a side note, it's pretty funny they simply refer to him as "El Negro".

I wasn't being defensive about Messi, tbh. I just found funny having Niembro there. Dude isn't a former player, he's just a fat with a shady reputation of corruption in politics and journalism.

[Phenomanul]

I wasn't being defensive about Messi, tbh. I just found funny having Niembro there. Dude isn't a former player, he's just a fat with a shady reputation of corruption in politics and journalism.

I’m not familiar with Argentinean journalists (but I can certainly sympathize with your feelings - there are some Mexican journalists most Mexicans dislike [Faitelson]).

[dunkman]

I think Neymar is tier 3, Ronaldinho maybe tier 3 more 4 perhaps. Ramos is probably the best defensive player ever, should be mentioned. Íker is by many the best GK ever.

[FrostKing]

UCL Classic

[lefty]

Brazil was winning world cups even when he was injured ('62). Top 5 all time player RIP

And he won a WC in 58 at age 17 while actually contributing and scored goals including 2 in the final

Pele was injured in 66 and Brazil won jack snd that year

He was the best player of the 70 WC and they didn’t win a WC until 1994