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  1. #426
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    Didn't the old front office pull the Hedo Turkogku trade out of thin air and creativity? I believe Brad Miller was involved.
    I thought of this trade before I posted. I seem to recall that was a three team trade where we took Turkoglu to make the trade work for the other two teams. It came out of the blue after we won a ring. We didn't have to give up anything. No complex negotiations, no draft capital involved or taking back bad players or contracts. We just had to answer the phone and simply say yes. Sad part of that gift was PATFO giving up to quickly on Hedo, who went on to have a solid career.

  2. #427
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    I get that, but this is about extracting as much as possible because we are NEEDED for this deal to work. With all that stuff going out, there needs to be more that a 27FRP and trash coming back.

    I like my variant:

    LAL: Irving
    BKN: Jak, Rich, Doug
    SAS: brick + 27 + 28swap + 29

    I love this trade idea. And I don't think it's the usual farfetched message board trade.

    I assume the picks and swap are from the Lakes? Are they protected or unprotected?

    As a comparison, if we simply traded Jak to a team for a lottery protected #1, that's one pick.

    If we packaged Rich and Doug to another team for a top 20 protected pick, that's another #1.

    So that's two #1s without having to facilitate Irving and Russ. So your scenario is realistic.

  3. #428
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    Yeah it was the Bryn trade that was in January.

    Exact timeline of Spurs transactions last season, since there always seems to be confusion:

    -Aug 6: We take part in that big 5 team trade that send Westbrook to the Lakers. Spurs got Wizards SRP and Chandler Hutchinson for Nikola Milutinov

    -We trade Drew and Thad to the Wizards 2022 SRP for Dragic and the pick that became Branham

    -We trade Derrick for Romeo, Josh, the pick that became Blake, and a top-1 protected swap in 2028

    -June 30: We trade DJM for Gallo, and all dem picks
    So there is hope that Brian Wright can work some magic in the next few days and pull off a complex stunning trade.

  4. #429
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    Just because you have to hit a salary floor doesn’t mean you waste your valuable cap space that NO other team has to absorb Westbrook. Plenty of teams need that space … possibly even small pieces of it … to make trades happen. Stranger things have happened, but they could net lottery protected firsts just renting out a portion of the space.

    They’ll find a way to hit the floor. Just be patient, and good things will come. If anything, Wright’s maneuvering over the past year shows they are able to work their way into trades and extract assets.

  5. #430
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    pretty sure they have gotten some other fish they didnt deserveÖlike maybe

    kobe refusing to play for team that drafted him for a laker spot
    unibrow (altho a ing bonafide china doll- pretty sure he was a big fish when betraying the pels to go to l.a.)
    kawhi betraying the spurs for l.a. and altho he ended up on clippers - the lakers tampered like a mutha er to pry him outnof s.a.
    karl malone and gary payton ring chasing

    kareem from milwaukee
    wilt from philly


    im sure im forgetting a few dozen others that l.a. had no legit right to- but nabbed them anyways
    I acknowledged late career ring chasers. Kareem was a trade. Wilt was a trade. Unibrow was a trade. Kobe was a trade.

    Two big fish in the last 27 years. Two.

    If the Lakers go completely to , no one will sign there, and no one will want to be traded there.

  6. #431
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Spurs pay money due to being under anyways. So whether itís spread out to existing players or to a new player itís the same money is all Iím saying. Iím not saying Spurs will take on 30M, but none-to a few? Ya I think they will do that especially up to whatever they are to get to the floor
    We both know there is a salary floor for the spurs, but what I'm saying is that don't spend money for Russ or any other high salary player that gets us to the floor and beyond and then release him. Sure it gets you off the salary floor and possibly a first round pick a few years from now but nothing else. That's a lot of money to pay for a first round pick that will probably be lottery protected but nothing of value now when you've actually spent the money. I find it amazing that the lakers want something of value (picks or players) for something that offers very little value (Russ) considering most teams will probably release him. If Russ had any real value they wouldn't be trying to trade him. Its just the lakers trying to pull a fast one on the league.
    Last edited by jjspur; 02-04-2023 at 11:23 AM.

  7. #432
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Iíd be much more hard nosed than DPG is. Facilitating the move of two big-name players would be worth four FRPs, or I would tell them to go chase Chinese balloons. Also some cash, to help buy out Westbrook.

    Four FRPs, lightly enough protected to be valued at $10 M each, plus $7 M in cash, and thereís $47 M.
    Now that's a deal !! Lakers and Nets wouldn't do it but that is fair value for the spurs for taking on such a ridiculous salary.

  8. #433
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    We both know there is a salary floor for the spurs, but what I'm saying is that don't spend money for Russ or any other high salary player that gets us to the floor and beyond and then release him. Sure it gets you off the salary floor and possibly a first round pick a few years from now but nothing else. That's a lot of money to pay for a first round pick that will probably be lottery protected but nothing of value now when you've actually spent the money. I find it amazing that the lakers want something of value (picks or players) for something that offers very little value (Russ) considering most teams will probably release him. If Russ had any real value they wouldn't be trying to trade him. Its just the lakers trying to pull a fast one on the league.
    Why would you think the Spurs care if they are spending the same money with Russ or without him in this scenario? Would you rather spend the money or spend the same money + get a pick? Seems easy to me.

    I’m not saying absorb Russ and send no players out. Spurs would be sending out money too

  9. #434
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    Nets are 35M over the cap resulting in a whooping 108M in luxury tax bill. Re-routing Westbrook to SA while Kyrie goes out to LA and getting Doug/Collins/Tre to BKY would knock off nearly half of their luxury tax bill. It’s an insane amount they would get in savings while still getting a first and some solid players on friendly deals.
    Thanks for the numbers. I didn't know the Nets' tax burden was that steep.

    What's the smallest amount of salary the Spurs can send out while taking back only Westbrook? I'd imagine that if the Nets are worried about the tax they would want to take back as little salary as possible. That and they could get a bigger trade exception out of the deal if they take back less salary, in case they decide to pivot next year.

    On the other hand the Lakers probably don't care about cap sheet cleanliness or luxury tax payments at all, so couldn't they take back any salaries the Nets don't want? Kyrie's salary is $10M less than Westbrook's anyway.

  10. #435
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    Considering Nets will be looking for good players to contend with, not picks or tax relief, a deal with Utah or Indiana would make more sense for them than SA.

    Something like Conley and Beasley to Nets, Irving and Clarkson to Lakers and Westbrook + picks to Utah is quite balanced.

  11. #436
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    The only way I see us getting involved is if the Nets actually would consider Russ as an asset once we bought him out amd it is pre arranged that he signs there after a buyout.

    Lakers - Irving
    Nets - JRich, 1 unprotected Lakers FRP, Russ as a buyout
    Spurs - Russ to be bought out, 1 unprotected Lakers FRP, Lakers pick swap

    Lakers make out pretty well here so it all depends on how much of a Kryrie is versus how the Nets want to play hardball.

    I really donít like the idea of helping facilitate the Lakers Kyrie because even if this season fails they will be loaded with ring chasers come 2023-24.

  12. #437
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    We both know there is a salary floor for the spurs, but what I'm saying is that don't spend money for Russ or any other high salary player that gets us to the floor and beyond and then release him. Sure it gets you off the salary floor and possibly a first round pick a few years from now but nothing else. That's a lot of money to pay for a first round pick that will probably be lottery protected but nothing of value now when you've actually spent the money. I find it amazing that the lakers want something of value (picks or players) for something that offers very little value (Russ) considering most teams will probably release him. If Russ had any real value they wouldn't be trying to trade him. Its just the lakers trying to pull a fast one on the league.
    It’s not an extra cost. If we don’t pay and release Russ, the money will HAVE to be distributed amongst our current roster. That’s the penalty of not meeting the salary floor. There are only two scenarios:

    1. Trade for Russ and a FRP, release him, and make the salary floor.
    2. Don’t do the trade, pay the money to the current roster players.

    Only one of those nets you a FRP.

  13. #438
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Considering Nets will be looking for good players to contend with, not picks or tax relief, a deal with Utah or Indiana would make more sense for them than SA.

    Something like Conley and Beasley to Nets, Irving and Clarkson to Lakers and Westbrook + picks to Utah is quite balanced.
    Are we sure? I donít agree that Conley & Beasley are so much better than Doug/Jak/Richardson/Tre/Collins that itís not worth 50M in savings, but thats just me. I mean that Jazz trade works, Iím just not so sure I would view aging Conley+Beasley as materially better than Doug/Collins/Tre/Unprotected 1st and what you could potentially get in another deal by using that 1st + Spurs players.


    So worst case if you canít flip some combo Doug + Collins + Tre + unprotected first for a player better than Conley or Beasley? Then at least you still have some good role players and save a ton of money.

    Iím 99% certain that you can flip that unprotected 1st + Tre/Doug for a MUCH better player than Conley or Beasley though.

    Would the Lakers rather have Clarkson over Josh Richardson? Absolutely. So I see it from their perspective. But BKY is really giving up getting an unprotected first & saving 50M for Mike Conley and Beasley who both average under 13 points and 40% shooting (both ok from 3)?

    That seems like a wayyyyyy worse deal for BKY compared to mine. Maybe if Clarkson went to BKY instead of Beasley?
    Last edited by DPG21920; 02-04-2023 at 01:39 PM.

  14. #439
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Considering Nets will be looking for good players to contend with, not picks or tax relief, a deal with Utah or Indiana would make more sense for them than SA.

    Something like Conley and Beasley to Nets, Irving and Clarkson to Lakers and Westbrook + picks to Utah is quite balanced.
    As I mentioned - I think this is awful deal for BKY compared to mine. They lose out on a crazy good pick asset, donít save money and donít get really any better players thanSA is offering.

    I could see a 4th team involved by using my trade too. Lets see BKY wants a better player than Conley/Beasley or Doug/Tre/Collins - loop in someone like DET and send Doug/Collins to them with that unprotected first and get Bojan Bogdanovic

    So instead of getting Conley + Beasley in your deal - it ends up looking like:

    Lakers Get: Kyrie + Josh Richardson

    Brooklyn Gets: Bojan Bogdanovic + Tre Jones (which IMO is much much better than Conley + Beasley and now they also save a solid chunk of change - 22M in, 37M out)

    DET Gets: Doug + Collins + Lakers unprotected 1st

    Sa Gets: Westbrook + Lakers Unprotected 1st

  15. #440
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    Fake Trade:

    Lakers Get: Kyrie + Josh Richardson

    BKY Gets: Doug + Tre + Zach + 1 Lakers unprotected 1st

    SA Gets: Westbrook (whom they waive so he can sign with a contender) + 1 Lakers unprotected 1st


    My thoughts: If LA is really trying to win, and willing to give up 2 firsts this gets them more than just Kyrie in Josh Richardson to help with depth. BKY doesn’t lose Kyrie for a nothing player, gets 3 solid rotation pieces to help now and shaves their 100M tax bill in half while still getting a great pick as well.

    SA loses only Tre from the “young” core, keeps rest of core including Jak for another deal/to re-sign and while they maybe should get more than one first for giving up Doug/Zach/Tre/Saving BKY a ton of money, they get the best possible one pick so quality over quan y.

    DPG, your deal is underpaying us. We're chucking in multiple assets - Richardson, Doug, Tre and Zach plus our available capspace (which, as you note, is a unique asset in the NBA at this point, and I think the only way a WB for Kyrie swap gets done) for only 1 pick. That deal potentially rescues the Lakers' season and saves Brooklyn a ton of cap charges (and might fix their season as well - getting Kyrie out of the mix with Simmons might help both players, and they get some useful players back as well). At a minimum we should be going for both LA Picks, and I would certainly start the ask at more than that. Either a 3ed pick from Brooklyn or the 28 swap from LAL.

  16. #441
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    It’s not an extra cost. If we don’t pay and release Russ, the money will HAVE to be distributed amongst our current roster. That’s the penalty of not meeting the salary floor. There are only two scenarios:

    1. Trade for Russ and a FRP, release him, and make the salary floor.
    2. Don’t do the trade, pay the money to the current roster players.

    Only one of those nets you a FRP.
    If it’s one or the other (and you have no better options), you absolutely trade for Russ and take the first. If you do it, you try to get away with ceding only one of Richardson or McDermott to make dollars work.

    I am fine punting on next year’s cap space too if we can somehow reroute Westbrook to Charlotte and take back Hayward’s terrible contract and remove most of the pick protections on the Charlotte pick. I don’t know what it’s worth to either side, but imagine Charlotte is in more of a hurry than Spurs to improve and shed salary for next year. Not sure if we can get an additional asset beyond amending the pick protections.

    I firmly remain in the camp that you can play hardball with the Lakers as the Spurs are really their only path. And you work other options that can net picks into the cap space as well. I think both are possible.

  17. #442
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    Itís not an extra cost. If we donít pay and release Russ, the money will HAVE to be distributed amongst our current roster. Thatís the penalty of not meeting the salary floor. There are only two scenarios:

    1. Trade for Russ and a FRP, release him, and make the salary floor.
    2. Donít do the trade, pay the money to the current roster players.

    Only one of those nets you a FRP.
    How exactly does scenario #2 work? Is the money evenly distributed among the entire roster, or could the spurs allocate it strategically? Iím imagining a *wink wink* deal like what Turner got: more money NOW in exchange for a new team-friendly deal (Vassell, Jak, etc.). In effect, this would provide cap relief to future spurs teams, rather than other teams now.

  18. #443
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    I love this trade idea. And I don't think it's the usual farfetched message board trade.

    I assume the picks and swap are from the Lakes? Are they protected or unprotected?

    As a comparison, if we simply traded Jak to a team for a lottery protected #1, that's one pick.

    If we packaged Rich and Doug to another team for a top 20 protected pick, that's another #1.

    So that's two #1s without having to facilitate Irving and Russ. So your scenario is realistic.
    Yeah I think itís a realistic trade under the cir stances. Agee on Jakob, but I think Doug/Rich, while useful to the Nets, are kind of a wash in terms of pick return coming back our way. The additional unprotected LAL first is for Brick/facilitating alone and the swap for the ~10M cap savings to LAL.

    If Nets insist on the optics of getting back a FRP, Iíd entertain sending them the CHA pick for a SRP.

  19. #444
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Itís not an extra cost. If we donít pay and release Russ, the money will HAVE to be distributed amongst our current roster. Thatís the penalty of not meeting the salary floor. There are only two scenarios:

    1. Trade for Russ and a FRP, release him, and make the salary floor.
    2. Donít do the trade, pay the money to the current roster players.

    Only one of those nets you a FRP.
    Bottom line

    1. Spurs are currently at about 99 million is salary
    2. NBA Salary floor is 111 million
    3. We need to spend approximately 12 million just to get to the salary floor
    4. We trade JRich and Dougie's 25.6 million total salary for Russ's 47 million dollar salary to get a first round pick in say 2029 . Granted half of those players salary is already used up so its a 12 million for a 24 million dollar contract and a first.
    5. The issue I have is that yeah we get to the salary floor but we also spend an extra 12 million for Russ's contract of which we will get nothing or very little in return (buyout wise) when we release him.
    6. So basically you're paying about 12 million now for a probably protected future first and you don't replace JRich and/or Dougie which will also cost if you do.
    7. I know this is pretty much of a lost season but this deal seems awfully expensive for just one first round pick.
    8. I can see the spurs making a small trade at the deadline if at all, but divide the rest of the salary floor money between the players. They deserve it after playing in such a terrible tanking season.
    Last edited by jjspur; 02-04-2023 at 04:34 PM.

  20. #445
    You never know JPB's Avatar
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    I love this trade idea. And I don't think it's the usual farfetched message board trade.

    I assume the picks and swap are from the Lakes? Are they protected or unprotected?

    As a comparison, if we simply traded Jak to a team for a lottery protected #1, that's one pick.

    If we packaged Rich and Doug to another team for a top 20 protected pick, that's another #1.

    So that's two #1s without having to facilitate Irving and Russ. So your scenario is realistic.

    I don't imagine BKN trading Irving and losing picks for just 3 of our role players (Jak, Doug, RIch). No interest for them.

    Would I do that as a GM? , no. You can find guys like Doug and Rich around. And not sure why they would even want these 3 guys (except for the fact it would arrange us) but 100% sure BKN fans hate that trade just I would if I was one...
    Last edited by JPB; 02-04-2023 at 04:40 PM.

  21. #446
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    Bottom line

    1. Spurs are currently at about 99 million is salary
    2. NBA Salary floor is 111 million
    3. We need to spend approximately 12 million just to get to the salary floor
    4. We trade JRich and Dougie's 25.6 million total salary for Russ's 47 million dollar salary to get a first round pick in say 2029 . Granted half of those players salary is already used up so its a 12 million for a 24 million dollar contract and a first.
    5. The issue I have is that yeah we get to the salary floor but we also spend an extra 12 million for Russ's contract of which we will get nothing or very little in return (buyout wise) when we release him.
    6. So basically you're paying about 12 million now for a probably protected future first and you don't replace JRich and/or Dougie which will also cost if you do.
    7. I know this is pretty much of a lost season but this deal seems awfully expensive for just one first round pick.
    You take that deal 10 out of 10 times....

  22. #447
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    I'm getting the feeling we're kind of looking from the outside while other feast, waiting for the breadcrumbs that fall of the table.

  23. #448
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I'm getting the feeling we're kind of looking from the outside while other feast, waiting for the breadcrumbs that fall of the table.
    ??

    Lol, because of Hachimura or what? Ain't no one feasting right now.

  24. #449
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    You take that deal 10 out of 10 times....
    Easy to say if you're not an investor. The spurs are already losing money this season, this would just add to the misery. I know the spurs need to get to the salary floor, but I'm sure that there are better ways to do it than this trade.

  25. #450
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    ??

    Lol, because of Hachimura or what? Ain't no one feasting right now.
    Because nobody seems to be looking for Poeltl, and Richardson may be plan Z for every other wing that's being thrown around. It seems everybody is going after Toronto & Utah's players, without any solid info pointing to any of our players. That may change as the deadline approaches, but price is likely to be less than ideal.

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