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  1. #276
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    I could see something where SA trades McD, Zach or Josh like they did with Thad and using the CHA pick for a more guaranteed first this year.
    Yes, and this was the jist of my question...I think tbe answer lies within the parameters of who were trading with. Some teams may covet a pick this year, in which case our 2nd is more valuable but if the team is a contender they may prefer to defer a year or two with an upside chance that the Charlotte pick os a mid first.

  2. #277
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    I think 1989 expectations would be wildly unrealistic. 20 year-old Wembanyama isn't going to be 24 year-old David Robinson ready to take this team from the lottery to winning the division. Like it or not Spurs are looking at another year or two of being in the high lottery most likely after getting Wemby. Sure if a situation like dumping draft picks to get a young Donovan Mitc presents itself then jump on it, but I'd have no interest in getting vets much older than that considering Wembanyama is still going to take some time to develop into an MVP candidate.
    While not a DRob/Timmy like jump (both the biggest turnarounds in NBA history), I would hope we'd see at least a Ja-like jump where we go from one of the worst in the league to a play-in range team.

  3. #278
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    Breaking: Brooklyn Nets All-Star Kyrie Irving has requested a trade, league sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. The franchise has been informed that Irving prefers to move on ahead of the Feb. 9 trade deadline – or will leave in free agency in July.

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    I'd be shocked if Kyrie did this without having some pre arranged destination already in the works. My money is on the Lakers, of course.

  4. #279
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    I think 1989 expectations would be wildly unrealistic. 20 year-old Wembanyama isn't going to be 24 year-old David Robinson ready to take this team from the lottery to winning the division. Like it or not Spurs are looking at another year or two of being in the high lottery most likely after getting Wemby. Sure if a situation like dumping draft picks to get a young Donovan Mitc presents itself then jump on it, but I'd have no interest in getting vets much older than that considering Wembanyama is still going to take some time to develop into an MVP candidate.
    Hmm, not so sure of that, tbh. West is pretty mediocre and I truly believe Wemby is gonna be a game changer his very first step on an NBA floor. He's gonna make SA an "attractive" destination too and with all the picks, cap and assets spurs have to trade with, plus Sochan, I think you can build a compe ive team as soon as next year...

    And that may be considered as sacrilege, but in my mind 20 Wemby > 24 DRob.
    Last edited by JPB; 02-03-2023 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #280
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    I'd be shocked if Kyrie did this without having some pre arranged destination already in the works. My money is on the Lakers, of course.
    I agree... but does Brooklyn really want to trade him for the LA picks? If they only get picks KD will demand a trade too.... I think this leads too one of two outcomes: 1) Brooklyn trades Kyrie and KD and blows it up or 2) they move him in a 3 team deal, sending WB elsewhere attached to picks and get real players back.

    My bet is on the latter...

  6. #281
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    Sean Marks going to follow Kliff Kingsbury in the off-season

  7. #282
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    While not a DRob/Timmy like jump (both the biggest turnarounds in NBA history), I would hope we'd see at least a Ja-like jump where we go from one of the worst in the league to a play-in range team.
    They went from a 33 win team to a 34 win team in Ja's rookie year to a 38 win team his second year and didn't get much interesting in trade for Mike Conley, and Ja also had two years in college. And as great a prospect as Wemby is, gotta remember he ain't Doncic, who was the best player in Euroleague when drafted. Wemby went to a weaker league this year and last year in Euroleague he was a 6.5 PPG and 3.8 REB guy, gotta expect he's still going to be a project.

  8. #283
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    I'd be shocked if Kyrie did this without having some pre arranged destination already in the works. My money is on the Lakers, of course.
    Kyrie was looking for an extension as much as a week ago. He wants money. Just like him to torpedo his team and FO a week until the deadline.

    I figure the Nets expected him to leave this summer anyway. Let some other team take the antisemite.

  9. #284
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Maybe Irving wants a place where he can be antisemitic without being fined.
    Last edited by JPB; 02-03-2023 at 02:28 PM.

  10. #285
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    Hmm, not so sure of that, tbh. West is pretty mediocre and I truly believe Wemby is gonna be a game changer his very first step on an NBA floor. He's gonna make SA an "attractive" destination too and with all the picks, cap and assets spurs have to trade with, plus Sochan, I think you can build a compe ive team as soon as next year...

    And that may be considered as sacrilege, but in my mind 20 Wemby > 24 DRob.
    That's lunacy. Wemby is still pretty far from being in his athletic prime with that frame he has. If he was anything close to 24 year old Robinson he'd be dominating Euroleague.

  11. #286
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    I agree... but does Brooklyn really want to trade him for the LA picks? If they only get picks KD will demand a trade too.... I think this leads too one of two outcomes: 1) Brooklyn trades Kyrie and KD and blows it up or 2) they move him in a 3 team deal, sending WB elsewhere attached to picks and get real players back.

    My bet is on the latter...
    It depends on what they can get in terms of actual players, with this limited timeframe. If the Lakers offer those 2 unprotected firsts (or one and an unprotected swap), the Nets could take the value now and flip them in the offseason for actual help. The Durant situation will blow up sooner rather than later, I think it may be in the best interest of the Nets and Durant himself to agree to finish the season and find him a new home in the offseason.
    BTW, if the Lakers cough up both unprotected firsts, the Nets may become a dark horse for OG Anunoby, by rerouting them to Toronto.

  12. #287
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    That's lunacy. Wemby is still pretty far from being in his athletic prime with that frame he has. If he was anything close to 24 year old Robinson he'd be dominating Euroleague.

    He doesn't play in Euroleague so he'd have a hard time dominating it, but I'm expecting nothing else than an MJ type of rookie year for Wemby. He is unguardable in a league where defense is a forbidden word and where he will be surrounded by with teammates 5 times better than who he has ever played with.

    It' pointless to try to imagine his rookie season based on what he's doing in the french league. It's all about potential and match ups. Wherever he lands up, he'll become the central point of the team.. His 3 pt shot is factually unblockable, he could just stand the whole game in his favorite 3 spot, and no one could prevent him from keeping shooting. He's like nothing we've ever seen, so even comparing with DRob makes no sense, he's just himself.

  13. #288
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    He does'nt play Euroleague so he'd have a hard time dominatng it, but I'm expectng nothing else than an MJ type of rookie year for Wemby. He is unguardable in a league where defense is a forbidden word and where he will be surrounded by with temmates 5 times better than who he has ever played with.

    It' pointless to try to imagine his rookie season based on what he's doing in the french league. It's all about potential and match ups. Wherever he lands up, he'll become the central point of the team.. His 3 pt shot is factually unblockable. He could just stand the whole game in his favorite 3 spot and no one couldn't prevent him from keeping shooting. He's like nothing we've ever seen, so even comparing with DRob makes no sense, he's just himself.
    So he wasn't ready for Euroleague this year but he's going to dominate the NBA next year?

  14. #289
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    I agree... but does Brooklyn really want to trade him for the LA picks? If they only get picks KD will demand a trade too.... I think this leads too one of two outcomes: 1) Brooklyn trades Kyrie and KD and blows it up or 2) they move him in a 3 team deal, sending WB elsewhere attached to picks and get real players back.

    My bet is on the latter...
    They don’t need to trade him for the LA picks if a third team becomes involved.

    Issue is the Lakers probably don’t have the assets to move off Westbrook AND bring in Irving. But Kyrie’s value could be diminished to the point where that’s the best they can do.

    As one of the few teams with cap space though, if Kyrie is in fact being moved it could create a domino effect where the space on its own can be used to ac ulate assets (cap space facilitates trades). Combine that with useful vets on reasonable or expiring deals, and significant upgrades can be made.

    A framework around Kyrie and Westbrook with two of Poeltl, Richardson, McD going out makes all the sense in the world but I would hold out until the last minute. Why use up all space in one deal, when you may be able to use it in smaller chunks on multiple deals?

  15. #290
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    So he wasn't ready for Euroleague this year but he's going to dominate the NBA next year?
    His team isn't qualified for the Euroleague.

  16. #291
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    They don’t need to trade him for the LA picks if a third team becomes involved.

    Issue is the Lakers probably don’t have the assets to move off Westbrook AND bring in Irving. But Kyrie’s value could be diminished to the point where that’s the best they can do.

    As one of the few teams with cap space though, if Kyrie is in fact being moved it could create a domino effect where the space on its own can be used to ac ulate assets (cap space facilitates trades). Combine that with useful vets on reasonable or expiring deals, and significant upgrades can be made.

    A framework around Kyrie and Westbrook with two of Poeltl, Richardson, McD going out makes all the sense in the world but I would hold out until the last minute. Why use up all space in one deal, when you may be able to use it in smaller chunks on multiple deals?
    It does have the potential to create a plethora of deals that can be out on the table... LA could conceivable take back Kyrie and McD if the want.... heck, Brooklyn could even take KJ in an unbalanced part of the deal....not that I expect that...I'm just pointing out that the possibilities are considerable..

  17. #292
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    His team isn't qualified for the Euroleague.
    Well yeah he left his team that was in Euroleague.

  18. #293
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Besides, DRob was playing in a league where bigs still had a major role and weren't just pnr, rim protector stiffs. Let's be honest, Dave was an incredible athlete but wan't a pure shooter or a real passer. Like all the bigs form that era, he was basically leaving in the paint and would have a hard time playing in today's "stretch bigs" NBA...

    Wemby is a one of a kind modern big with great handles who can shoot (including the 3), pass and block... He's basically a 7'4 wing.

  19. #294
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    Issue is the Lakers probably don’t have the assets to move off Westbrook AND bring in Irving. But Kyrie’s value could be diminished to the point where that’s the best they can do.
    They have 2 unprotected firsts ('27 & '29) + 2 unprotected swaps ('26 & '28) + 4 seconds ('23, '25, '27 & '28). That's more than enough to get it done, and then some. The question is, are they willing to pull the trigger?

  20. #295
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Well yeah he left his team that was in Euroleague.
    That's right, so he can quietly work on his body and game and prepare for the NBA (and be closer to his family and friends) And to join coach Collet who is know for developing young guys.

    But we'll see.

  21. #296
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    They went from a 33 win team to a 34 win team in Ja's rookie year to a 38 win team his second year and didn't get much interesting in trade for Mike Conley, and Ja also had two years in college. And as great a prospect as Wemby is, gotta remember he ain't Doncic, who was the best player in Euroleague when drafted. Wemby went to a weaker league this year and last year in Euroleague he was a 6.5 PPG and 3.8 REB guy, gotta expect he's still going to be a project.
    There is some context lacking here though. They went from a 33-49 team before Ja (12th in the west, tied for 7th worst overall record) to a 34-39 team in a COVID shortened season that forced a Play-In game. The following season then went 38-34 in another shortened season, and were again a Play-In team. If Wemby can't lead us out of the bottom 5 as a rookie, he isn't the generational talent he is touted to be.

  22. #297
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    It does have the potential to create a plethora of deals that can be out on the table... LA could conceivable take back Kyrie and McD if the want.... heck, Brooklyn could even take KJ in an unbalanced part of the deal....not that I expect that...I'm just pointing out that the possibilities are considerable..
    One other possibility is unburdening the Charlotte pick as part of the deal by taking on Hayward (two years left) while they take on Westbrook (expires this year) - that has to have value for them. Plumlee could be useful going back to Nets as well. Removing protections means they’re more easily able to trade other future picks. I doubt they’d go full unprotected in this draft, but may go top 3, top 3 and then unprotected in 2025. I would need at least that to rent out cap space into next year.

    Hayward coming back also means only having to trade one guy in a deal instead of two with Westbrook to make numbers work. But those other trades would be harder to facilitate because of no remaining cap space. Though you can aggregate trades with the league office.

  23. #298
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    What a ing joke. Dude will be a Laker, just watch

  24. #299
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    What a league, good job Silver.

  25. #300
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    There is some context lacking here though. They went from a 33-49 team before Ja (12th in the west, tied for 7th worst overall record) to a 34-39 team in a COVID shortened season that forced a Play-In game. The following season then went 38-34 in another shortened season, and were again a Play-In team. If Wemby can't lead us out of the bottom 5 as a rookie, he isn't the generational talent he is touted to be.
    Yeah you're right, forgot to factor in the shorter schedule. Morant's rookie year they were five games better than the previous year prorated to 82 games. I think Wemby's body ain't gonna be ready for 82 games as a rookie though, he's not like LeBron who entered the league built like a tank already. I wouldn't hold it against Wemby if he's in the lottery next year. Do you think less of Durant for leading the Sonics to the lottery his rookie year when he wasn't yet physically built for the NBA yet?

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