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  1. #226
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けてボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

    I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

    I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

    But if you can move Doug & Zach - ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

    But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak
    We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.

  2. #227
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.
    Sorry but I'm really not sure Poetl on a 4/80 has that much of a trade value.

    It teams don't want to pay that now, they probably won't in a later trade. It remains to be seen if they would give that Poetl now, we'll see.

  3. #228
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けてボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    In short, it's not that I desperately want to drop Poeltl, but overpaying for older players in a career year is a dangerous proposition, and I'd hate for us to be so blinded by the idea of losing him, that we end up signing him to a contract that renders him untradeable a la John Collins, which could end up much worse.
    John Collins is at $7 million more than Poeltl would be next year in a hypothetical 4 year, $80 million deal. We're talking two completely different tiers of contract. If Poeltl wants a deal starting at $25 million next year then good luck with that for any team that signs him. And he's 31 at the end of his next contract, I don't see a lot of danger in him becoming a negative asset on a 4 year, $80 million deal. 4 year, $113 million in line with John Collins' contract is a whole different ballgame.

  4. #229
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けてボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sorry but I'm really not sure Poetl on a 4/80 has that much of a trade value.

    It teams don't want to pay that now, they probably won't in a later trade. It remains to be seen if they would give that Poetl now, we'll see.
    A lot of what is hamstringing Poeltl's trade value right now is the Spurs are pretty much only looking for picks in exchange, nothing else does them any good right now. With some luck in the draft in two or three years they might be looking for a vet instead on the trade market.

  5. #230
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.
    That's what you do on a fan board... Imagine, forsee, study all possibilities... Not like this season was overwhelming.

    And as Timvp wrote about, PATFO didn't wait for us to prepare for the Wemby eventuality. And you can be sure they've thinking about that Poetl or Sochan + Wemby question way before we did.

  6. #231
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

    Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

    Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.
    I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

    In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.

  7. #232
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon
    Doesnít matter who we are paying; like Doug, it just does not make sense to tie up any salary like that IMO unless the player is really worth it in context. If you arenít winning and a player is aging compared to rebuild core, you donít anchor large deals regardless of cap situation IMO vs extracting value. Itís just wasteful and pointless. If you are only going to win 20 games with or without the player donít put it on your books - especially if that deal makes it harder to trade said player (which there is risk of that IMO)

    Do I think itís catastrophic? Nope. Not at all. But the point of being smart with assets, careful with contracts and extracting max value is key for rebuilds.

  8. #233
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Zach can just be waived if his salary is really a concern...he's non guaranteed next year...I personally don't see the money as an issue at all though...
    Itís not a money ďissueĒ really- itís just asset management. If you can net extra picks and pay Jakob the money Doug/Zach were already going to be paid? Itís turns it into ďfreeĒ money for SA. That first year of Jak is now functionally free for SA (which doesnít matter for cap purposes but matters for value purposes).

    So its not about about needing the cap space etcÖor it blocking a FA. Itís strictly making sure you are maximizing assets and flexibility as much as possible and by being smart you can get first year of Jak ďfor freeĒ while getting a couple of 2nds for Doug/Zach

  9. #234
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    We were talking about $20 million a year though, at $25 million that's maybe a different story. Poeltl on a 4 year, $80 million deal would still have solid trade value down the line if the team can't get what it wants in trade right now. It's not the kind of contract that would handicap them in the future, I see little downside to bringing him back. It would be less than $18 million next season and would probably start looking better over time as the cap increases. He'd be 31 at the end of the contract so age isn't going to be a problem.
    I think the downside is Centers don’t really get that much typically and we run the risk of Jak getting hurt or having a down year and now its viewed as a “meh to bad deal”. I think there’s more than a zero % chance that is the case. Look at the defense this year and how it may hurt his value and perception and his numbers. This continues? Could nuke his value IMO

  10. #235
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Doesnít matter who we are paying; like Doug, it just does not make sense to tie up any salary like that IMO unless the player is really worth it in context. If you arenít winning and a player is aging compared to rebuild core, you donít anchor large deals regardless of cap situation IMO vs extracting value. Itís just wasteful and pointless. If you are only going to win 20 games with or without the player donít put it on your books - especially if that deal makes it harder to trade said player (which there is risk of that IMO)

    Do I think itís catastrophic? Nope. Not at all. But the point of being smart with assets, careful with contracts and extracting max value is key for rebuilds.
    jak on a 4/80 deal still has value if we really needed to make a move. dont let a dumb move like signing mcdermott prevent you from making a more sound move in re-signing jak if we dont get a compelling offer for him

  11. #236
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    A lot of what is hamstringing Poeltl's trade value right now is the Spurs are pretty much only looking for picks in exchange, nothing else does them any good right now. With some luck in the draft in two or three years they might be looking for a vet instead on the trade market.
    I think that is what Keldon/Tre are for….Have Sochan/Vassell core and the next draft pick or two and use Keldon + ATL picks etc to land a star like CLE did.

  12. #237
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    jak on a 4/80 deal still has value if we really needed to make a move. dont let a dumb move like signing mcdermott prevent you from making a more sound move in re-signing jak if we dont get a compelling offer for him
    That is where we disagree. Youíd think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.

    Another season like this where his numbers (especially defensively) sink due to cir stances? That 20M looks a little more dicey. But ya, again, donít think itís catastrophic and Iím actually making the argument for KEEPING Jak at the heart of my post on it.

    Just want SA to move Doug/Zach so that money SA was going to pay them anyways just goes to Jak (a better player) instead while still adding draft capital

  13. #238
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    That is where we disagree. You’d think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.

    Another season like this where his numbers (especially defensively) sink due to cir stances? That 20M looks a little more dicey. But ya, again, don’t think it’s catastrophic and I’m actually making the argument for KEEPING Jak at the heart of my post on it.

    Just want SA to move Doug/Zach so that money SA was going to pay them anyways just goes to Jak (a better player) instead while still adding draft capital
    i thought doug signing was stupid at the time too. i dont see signing mcdermott to a 3 year deal as comparable to a player like jak

  14. #239
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

    In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.
    If Wemby can be a 4, he can be a 3. He’s got the skills.

  15. #240
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure. Sochan's position flex along with his currently development trajectory with shooting makes him a viable option at the 3 that would be quite formidable if he could truly develop into a shooter.

    In the scenario where we landed Wemby AND kept Jak... I'd look to develop Sochan into a 3, and then try to move Keldon (coupled with some picks) for a legit PG. I'd probably even look to package Devin and Keldon together to upgrade the SG position.
    Yeah, I guess it's a possibily we all envisioned but that would really requires Sochan to transform into a pure shooting wing, wich I have a hard time imagining. He can eventually develop a reliable shoot as a stretch 4, not sure as a mobile, fast and creative 3 who can break defenses. He doesn't have that talented, "swingman" groove.

    Reason why I think having the three of Victor Poetl and Sochan on the floor could prove a but too pedestrian and slow, specially on defense against real strong 3s... Maybe occasionnaly but I'd prefer spur to chase and land a pure scoring wing, what Sochan will never be IMHO.

  16. #241
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

    A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

    Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.

  17. #242
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

    A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

    Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.
    and you liked the mcdermott signing

  18. #243
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    and you liked the mcdermott signing

  19. #244
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    i thought doug signing was stupid at the time too. i dont see signing mcdermott to a 3 year deal as comparable to a player like jak
    I think it is for a few reasons: We are already seeing some “talk” about Jaks slippage on defense and how that may or may not impact value. Another year or two of that + looking at a large pay raise? Does not bode well *possibly*. It’s just an unnecessary risk IMO especially because with or without him we suck. So why take that risk? I get taking a risk if you are close to being legit and there’s only so many good players you can add. But taking the risk for no more wins and sucking anyways?

    But ya, I do agree it is not some MAJOR concern; just one that sits in back of my mind.

    The other reason is just that Centers still seem to have a stigma, especially non scoring centers and that alone gives me pause

  20. #245
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

    A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

    Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.
    I didn’t want Ayton. I saw some paths where it maybe made sense but Ayton was a number one pick, played a good role on a le team and looks to have a solid offensive game which changes the variable at Center when doing comparisons.

    So, I get why some would rather pay Ayton 20M vs Jak 10M - it at least makes some sense whether I agree with it personally or not.

  21. #246
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    i wanted ayton/collins under the assumption that we were trying to build with murray. i didnt have a big issue with the murray trade because we got a good haul. once that door was closed, there was no real point in adding ayton

  22. #247
    Born Slippy
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    Jacobs trade value would be less than last season if a trade is on the cards.

    The guy looks disinterested out there and seems to be coasting like he Robert Horry on his last tour. . The post up against Shroeder was just plain lazy and embarrassing.

    Wonder what the masterplan is from Grandpa Pop.

  23. #248
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Over under: Spurs make 1.5 trades this trade deadline?

  24. #249
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    A lot of this board were scandalized by Jakob Poeltl's current contract, which proved almost instantly to have been a massive bargain.

    A lot of this board were desperate to get Ayton from Phoenix, who is on a much higher and exorbitant top pick salary track.

    Getting the sense that a lot of this board is really bad at evaluating centers and salaries, both our own players and players on other teams.
    A lot of this board also wanted to trade DJM and a bunch of FRPs for Ben Simmons.

    The moral here is that maybe this message board isn't cut out to be an NBA GM.

  25. #250
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けてボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    That is where we disagree. Youíd think we would have learned this lesson with everyone saying the same thing about the Doug signing while I was immediately pissed off about it calling it stupid lol.
    LOL what? The board mostly hated the McDermott signing. McDermott has never been anywhere close to as good a player as Poeltl has been these last two years.

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