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  1. #526
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I have a hard time seeing them pick up that option.
    I think their lux tax multiplier at this point is 3-4x so that final year actually
    costs them 30-40mm ish

  2. #527
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    I have a hard time seeing them pick up that option.
    They've already picked it. It'll cost them a lot and shows they're not ready to accept they've made a huge mistake.

  3. #528
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    They've already picked it. It'll cost them a lot and shows they're not ready to accept they've made a huge mistake.
    So they went on and compounded that mistake. I never thought he was a good fit for them in the first place.

  4. #529
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The word, I think, is that Wiseman was the pick of the Warriors owner and his failson.

  5. #530
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    Wiseman feels like Darko Milicic all over again.

  6. #531
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    Wiseman feels like Darko Milicic all over again.
    Darko will have the better career when it's all said and done..

  7. #532
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Yeah Darko was in the league for a while, even if he wasn't great. The horror with him was that Detroit passed on some HOFs. Wiseman was in a bad draft.

  8. #533
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    #2: Darko Milicic
    #3: Carmelo Anthony
    #4: Chris Bosh
    #5: Dwyane Wade
    Ouch

  9. #534
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    #2: Darko Milicic
    #3: Carmelo Anthony
    #4: Chris Bosh
    #5: Dwyane Wade
    Ouch
    Thatís still so disgraceful every time I see it. What that Dumars as GM?

  10. #535
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    #2: Darko Milicic
    #3: Carmelo Anthony
    #4: Chris Bosh
    #5: Dwyane Wade
    Ouch
    They pick any of those three and they could have had a few more chips lol

  11. #536
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Thatís still so disgraceful every time I see it. What that Dumars as GM?
    Yeah, Dumars was the GM, but Hammond (his second) was Darko's biggest proponent.
    There were many factors contributing to that disgraceful pick.
    First, we were in the midst of an era of dominant big men, coming from a sandwich of Spurs-3xLakers-Spurs championships that saw Tim & Shaq dominate. So the widespread belief was that you needed to build around a big man, so whenever in doubt, that archetype was heavily favored.
    Second, we were at the peak of a Euro hype, after a sudden influx of overseas players (coming from mainly from Europe) like Dirk, Gasol, Yao Ming, TP, Manu and others, meant that no GM wanted to be perceived as the idiot that missed the next overseas great. Before anyone says so, I know Manu is Argentinian, but he was just coming as a Euroleague MVP and was linked to that talent pool (I am Argentinian, in fact). That put in motion the hype pendulum that would swing between highs in Andrea Bargnani @ 1, and lows in Luka @ 5 (recency bias).
    Then there was a media campaign lead by ESPN's Chad Ford, who traveled to Serbia and started to write these pieces romanticizing the raw environment of basketball in Eastern Europe as opposed to the US, that made Darko sound like Rocky in the fourth iteration of his saga. I suspect he thought he'd be perceived as the genius that would capture in writing the birth of a legend, and pushed it so much that he ended up buying his own BS and securing his demise (he fell out of favor at ESPN and got fired a few years later). A lot of people found that narrative very appealing.
    Then there was the high stakes gambler syndrome. The Pistons had to choose between several very well known prospects to add to an already very good core that would go on to win the championship on the following season. The obvious choice was Carmelo Anthony, who came off a historic season at Syracuse, to the point that many people thought he should go no. 1 even ahead of LeBron.
    However, there was this mystery man from afar, who fit the big man, Euro trend, with little to no evidence for him other than a short solo workout, and the Chad Ford fueled hype worked his magic on Pistons' Joe Hammond. They probably figured they'd be the geniuses who saw farther ahead than anyone else, and had the (dis?) advantage of not needing that pick to pan out because they already had a contender in place. So they rolled the dice on the mystery box, and the rest is history.
    This story shouldn't be forgotten, as it entails a huge lesson to learn, where concrete evidence pointing to a certain outcome is disregarded in favor of a supposed high gain with little to nothing to support it other than hope. (Samanic, Primo anyone?).
    Last edited by Ariel; 02-05-2023 at 10:15 AM.

  12. #537
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Yeah, Dumars was the GM, but Hammond (his second) was Darko's biggest proponent.
    There were many factors contributing to that disgraceful pick.
    First, we were in the midst of an era of dominant big men, coming from a sandwich of Spurs-3xLakers-Spurs championships that saw Tim & Shaq dominate. So the widespread belief was that you needed to build around a big man, so whenever in doubt, that archetype was heavily favored.
    Second, we were at the peak of a Euro hype, after a sudden influx of overseas players (coming from mainly from Europe) like Dirk, Gasol, Yao Ming, TP, Manu and others, meant that no GM wanted to be perceived as the idiot that missed the next overseas great. Before anyone says so, I know Manu is Argentinian, but he was just coming as a Euroleague MVP and was linked to that talent pool (I am Argentinian, in fact). That put in motion the hype pendulum that would swing between highs in Andrea Bargnani @ 1, and lows in Luka @ 5 (recency bias).
    Then there was a media campaign lead by ESPN's Chad Ford, who traveled to Serbia and started to write these pieces romanticizing the raw environment of basketball in Eastern Europe as opposed to the US, that made Darko sound like Rocky in the fourth iteration of his saga. I suspect he thought he'd be perceived as the genius that would capture in writing the birth of a legend, and pushed it so much that he ended up buying his own BS and securing his demise (he fell out of favor at ESPN and got fired a few years later). A lot of people found that narrative very appealing.
    Then there was the high stakes gambler syndrome. The Pistons had to choose between several very well known prospects to add to an already very good core that would go on to win the championship on the following season. The obvious choice was Carmelo Anthony, who came off a historic season at Syracuse, to the point that many people thought he should go no. 1 even ahead of LeBron.
    However, there was this mystery man from afar, who fit the big man, Euro trend, with little to no evidence for him other than a short solo workout, and the Chad Ford fueled hype worked his magic on Pistons' Joe Hammond. They probably figured they'd be the geniuses who saw farther ahead than anyone else, and had the (dis?) advantage of not needing that pick to pan out because they already had a contender in place. So they rolled the dice on the mystery box, and the rest is history.
    This story shouldn't be forgotten, as it entails a huge lesson to learn, where concrete evidence pointing to a certain outcome is disregarded in favor of a supposed high gain with little to nothing to support it other than hope. (Samanic, Primo anyone?).
    Sammich was picked at 19, not near the top of the draft. At that pick number, if you’re NOT taking a big swing, you’re doing it wrong. Primo was picked at #12, another low reward slot. Comparing those to Darko is the worst kind of pretzel logic.

  13. #538
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    Sammich was picked at 19, not near the top of the draft. At that pick number, if youíre NOT taking a big swing, youíre doing it wrong. Primo was picked at #12, another low reward slot. Comparing those to Darko is the worst kind of pretzel logic.
    Huh? I didn't say those blunders were at the same level, I said the same principle applies and even laid it down for you to assimilate: "concrete evidence pointing to a certain outcome is disregarded in favor of a supposed high gain with little to nothing to support it other than hope".
    You can take a CALCULATED swing based on EVIDENCE, the problem is when all there is behind it is HOPE. Not hard to understand, provided your neurons can follow the breadcrumbs.

  14. #539
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Huh? I didn't say those blunders were at the same level, I said the same principle applies and even laid it down for you to assimilate: "concrete evidence pointing to a certain outcome is disregarded in favor of a supposed high gain with little to nothing to support it other than hope".
    You can take a CALCULATED swing based on EVIDENCE, the problem is when all there is behind it is HOPE. Not hard to understand, provided your neurons can follow the breadcrumbs.
    A big swing is never based on evidence, at least not late in the draft. If there were evidence, Sammich goes top 10.

  15. #540
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    ^^^ There's an interesting debate going on now amongst some Twitter draft guru types on the Floor vs Upside topic, and it centers on Golden State, who choose guys like Wiseman and Kuminga based on their perceived higher upside, while passing on guys like Franz Wagner and Tyrese Haliburton, who were (very) High Floor guys. I think it's a good debate-- guys who concretely demonstrate that they can be extremely effective players/leaders in college often have a lot of value, and often the perceived "shortcomings" with things like raw athleticism can be overstated-- think Jokic, Doncic, and even someone like Walker Kessler from last year's draft. For me, a lot of the time, the so-called higher upside concept can frequently be based more on stereotypes and hopes than anything else.. one of the first times I noticed this was in the 2008 draft, where many in the Kevin Love vs Micheal Beasley debate argued that Love was the "high IQ" guy and Beasley was supposedly the Uber Athlete with the higher upside... but in truth their agility and leaping numbers at the combine were remarkably similar, which shouldn't have been the case since Love was a big and Beasley was a combo forward. That year, there was another player-- Joe Alexander from West Virginia-- who crushed the combine with historically good test scores, and was drafted at #8 mainly because he was perceived as one of the best athletes in the class. He never panned out. I don't think there's a one-philosophy-fits-all when it comes to draft analysis-- there are so many factors and nuances from team to team, player to player, and year to year. But I think it's worth noting that High Upside isn't necessarily a better option than Very High Floor in many instances.
    Last edited by R. DeMurre; 02-05-2023 at 03:38 PM.

  16. #541
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Curry out for some period of time. Warriors might be ready to pull the plug on this season, fully taking them out of the Jak contention (if they were still contemplating it at all)

  17. #542
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    Curry out for some period of time. Warriors might be ready to pull the plug on this season, fully taking them out of the Jak contention (if they were still contemplating it at all)
    You'd think they'd want to dump salary and lower their tax bill....but how much and who?

  18. #543
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    Jakob on the new look Mavs makes a ton of sense.

  19. #544
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    Curry out for some period of time. Warriors might be ready to pull the plug on this season, fully taking them out of the Jak contention (if they were still contemplating it at all)
    Agree, but I think Jakob was never a serious fit there. Still think Raptors and Celtics make the most sense.

  20. #545
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    Jakob on the new look Mavs makes a ton of sense.
    Interesting.

    Doug + Jakob for Bert would be an interesting framework except I donít think Dallas has the draft capital now to entice the Spurs.
    Last edited by CGD; 02-05-2023 at 04:42 PM.

  21. #546
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    If the Spurs still like Wiseman while GS is over him, you could see a deal happen even if Curry's out for a while. Maybe it could involve Collins rather than Poeltl given that Zach fits in that offense and has option value whereas the Spurs wouldn't be punting on a first-rounder they could get for Poeltl from another deal.

  22. #547
    You never know JPB's Avatar
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    Yeah, Dumars was the GM, but Hammond (his second) was Darko's biggest proponent.
    There were many factors contributing to that disgraceful pick.
    First, we were in the midst of an era of dominant big men, coming from a sandwich of Spurs-3xLakers-Spurs championships that saw Tim & Shaq dominate. So the widespread belief was that you needed to build around a big man, so whenever in doubt, that archetype was heavily favored.
    Second, we were at the peak of a Euro hype, after a sudden influx of overseas players (coming from mainly from Europe) like Dirk, Gasol, Yao Ming, TP, Manu and others, meant that no GM wanted to be perceived as the idiot that missed the next overseas great. Before anyone says so, I know Manu is Argentinian, but he was just coming as a Euroleague MVP and was linked to that talent pool (I am Argentinian, in fact). That put in motion the hype pendulum that would swing between highs in Andrea Bargnani @ 1, and lows in Luka @ 5 (recency bias).
    Then there was a media campaign lead by ESPN's Chad Ford, who traveled to Serbia and started to write these pieces romanticizing the raw environment of basketball in Eastern Europe as opposed to the US, that made Darko sound like Rocky in the fourth iteration of his saga. I suspect he thought he'd be perceived as the genius that would capture in writing the birth of a legend, and pushed it so much that he ended up buying his own BS and securing his demise (he fell out of favor at ESPN and got fired a few years later). A lot of people found that narrative very appealing.
    Then there was the high stakes gambler syndrome. The Pistons had to choose between several very well known prospects to add to an already very good core that would go on to win the championship on the following season. The obvious choice was Carmelo Anthony, who came off a historic season at Syracuse, to the point that many people thought he should go no. 1 even ahead of LeBron.
    However, there was this mystery man from afar, who fit the big man, Euro trend, with little to no evidence for him other than a short solo workout, and the Chad Ford fueled hype worked his magic on Pistons' Joe Hammond. They probably figured they'd be the geniuses who saw farther ahead than anyone else, and had the (dis?) advantage of not needing that pick to pan out because they already had a contender in place. So they rolled the dice on the mystery box, and the rest is history.
    This story shouldn't be forgotten, as it entails a huge lesson to learn, where concrete evidence pointing to a certain outcome is disregarded in favor of a supposed high gain with little to nothing to support it other than hope. (Samanic, Primo anyone?).
    You just summed up why I wouldn't trade 2 or 3 for 6 and 9... Never try to be smartest cat in the room but just evaluate "facts" and risks .

  23. #548
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    Spurs did a good job of positioning themselves if the opportunity came. But I just don't see it coming. I don't think they make any trades at the deadline. I just don't. And while it would've been possible if the Lakers were like a 5th seed, the fact that they are just as likely to not make even the play-in tells you that they are not going to pull the trigger and trade away their two first rounders. I mean, unless they could get Durant or something like that and I just don't think they have the assets to pull that kind of deal off and certainly they don't have the time.

  24. #549
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けろボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Doug + Jakob for Bert would be an interesting framework except I donít think Dallas has the draft capital now to entice the Spurs.
    2027 unprotected would do it

  25. #550
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Kywie Irving just traded to Dallas.

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