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  1. #126
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    Chet, Banchero, Mathurin, Murray Ivey all go before this year's non Wemby players, there's no question.

    Daniels probably. I'd take Shaeden Sharpe before Scoot. And I was big on Sochan, who is also better than most of them.

    Is to laugh.
    Ok...go with that...and there's nothing wrong with that opinion...but the consensus among the guys that do this for a living concludes something different than you're concluding....

  2. #127
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Ok...go with that...and there's nothing wrong with that opinion...but the consensus among the guys that do this for a living concludes something different than you're concluding....
    I have seen no such consensus. Anyway, to me there's a grievous error in going in on these Overtime Elite types and players who play on teams that can't win games even in college. If you're playing Overtime Elite or Ignite you might as well just sit the year out.

    Evidence? Look at who they've put in the league recently and how massively they're struggling. But go on and clap your hands wildly. I'm sure Tinkerbell will regain her wings.

  3. #128
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    If both the celtics and spurs are lottery teams the spurs can have two unprotected lottery picks in 2028.
    If the Spurs are a lottery team in 2028, something has gone wrong.

  4. #129
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    I have seen no such consensus. Anyway, to me there's a grievous error in going in on these Overtime Elite types and players who play on teams that can't win games even in college. If you're playing Overtime Elite or Ignite you might as well just sit the year out.

    Evidence? Look at who they've put in the league recently and how massively they're struggling. But go on and clap your hands wildly. I'm sure Tinkerbell will regain her wings.
    I understand your concerns about OE...Ignite... they're legitimate.. I'm not going to deny that.... I'm not even going to say that the consensus isn't going to change by draft day because it very well might. There will be athletic testing, psychological testing, interviews etc that will happen between now and then. For instance, Amen Thompson is pretty much a top 4 guy right now and there are assumptions on shooting and chatacter/mentality that figure in that. When he tests he could fall out of the top 10 or pass Scoot for number 2... we don't have the information to draw that conclusion....all we have is where he currently stands with the current information available...

    For me, I'm pretty close to the consensus and don't see any reason to deviate from that until I've got more information to use. I've got some from watching game film but, it limited as of now. But more will be coming and my board will probably change some at that point....some always underperform and some overperform... that's the normal course these things take..

  5. #130
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    Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.

  6. #131
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    Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.
    Sure...but it's irrelevant to the point here...which is where they'll be drafted (or in the case you pointed out...were drafted).... it isn't a debate about whether the consensus is correct or not.... there are always aberrations..

  7. #132
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    I'm not doubting you mo7888, but where are these consensus stories about the top 6 all being better than last year's #1? I'd like to read this.

  8. #133
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.
    Hard to get a good read on him given he plays for a team of selfish chuckers with zero structure or accountability.

    Really hope Houston doesnt win the #1 pick this season. They dont deserve it and they'll ruin Wemby

  9. #134
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    Hard to get a good read on him given he plays for a team of selfish chuckers with zero structure or accountability.

    Really hope Houston doesnt win the #1 pick this season. They dont deserve it and they'll ruin Wemby
    IMO this is a huge storyline to watch. Not only do the Rockets not deserve any more help because 1) they've already gotten two top 4 picks and 2) they've not proven they can do anything with talent AND not only will the ruin Wemby but it will ALSO be a huge embarrassment for Silver who came out and warned teams against tanking. I think you can generally absolve all other teams this year of the egregious tanking that Houston is currently deploying. Pistons and Hornets have had significant injuries (and key players doing felonies), the Spurs have a roster but are actually overachieving the W/L column, and the Magic are young and on the ascent. I am surprised that OKC didn't go the full tank route this year with such a prize on the horizon.

  10. #135
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    I'm not doubting you mo7888, but where are these consensus stories about the top 6 all being better than last year's #1? I'd like to read this.
    They came out around the 2022 draft...comparing it to 2023.... there were several....

  11. #136
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Consensus said Jabari Smith was the #2 pick but looking like he should have been picked #12 or lower.
    Became a consensus top pick due to media echo chamber. Every college basketball broadcast the commentators were mentioning him as a top 1 or 2 pick and nobody was brave or cared enough to say otherwise. He became a thoughtless media truism, kinda like how Kobe is accepted as the best player of his generation when clearly that's not true.

    I was definitely not of the opinion he deserved a top pick. Jabari Smith always had high-level role-player written on him as a ceiling. He was a good outside shooter and a good defender and shotblocker. That's literally all he did. He shot a really miserable percentage inside the arc and I don't think he even rebounded that much.

    Meanwhile, Keegan Murray was 'obviously' terrible.

  12. #137
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    They came out around the 2022 draft...comparing it to 2023.... there were several....
    Dude, every single year the draft mavens are going to claim THIS YEAR is COMPLETELY NUTS with talent. That's what drives the clicks and eyeballs.

    It's very apparent this is a down year in the draft. May prove otherwise, but the NCAA is really bad this year overall, no break-out players whatsoever, and the rest are OTE, which is a joke, or Ignite, which doesn't produce good pros.

  13. #138
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    Dude, every single year the draft mavens are going to claim THIS YEAR is COMPLETELY NUTS with talent. That's what drives the clicks and eyeballs.

    It's very apparent this is a down year in the draft. May prove otherwise, but the NCAA is really bad this year overall, no break-out players whatsoever, and the rest are OTE, which is a joke, or Ignite, which doesn't produce good pros.
    While there is always hype around the next 'thing', it's kind of absurd to claim this is a down draft.... when it's one of the better one's we've seen in quite some time...

  14. #139
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.

  15. #140
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.
    That's dumb.

  16. #141
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    Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.
    No doubt

  17. #142
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

    At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.

  18. #143
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    Counting Jabari Smith out this early is foolish. I’d switch him for Sochan in a heartbeat.
    Sochan may well be better, but yeah, Smith would still has an easier path to being what Sochan projects to be.

  19. #144
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    I understand but, that was the consensus at the draft and it hasn't really changed...it won't change until we get closer to this draft and get more data from athletic testing and interviews...

    And I don't mean my consensus or the consensus on ST.... it was the consensus among the draft guys that cover these things...
    Despite not having seen the same, I don't doubt the veracity, but I find it hard to believe Banchero and Holmgren don't go 3-4 in this draft.

  20. #145
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    Despite not having seen the same, I don't doubt the veracity, but I find it hard to believe Banchero and Holmgren don't go 3-4 in this draft.
    By the time we get to the draft and have more information that very well could be..

  21. #146
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    I don't think you quite understand how the swap works, or if you do youre being disingenuous about it. The Spurs don't just get the Celtics pick in 2028, they have the option to swap draft positioning. Removing the #1 protection and actually trading the picks gives us two picks in 2028, not just one. 2028 is a long way away and we have no clue where we or they will be. Netting an unprotected 1st instead of a top-1 protected swap is not just a punt.

    Secondly...Toronto gave us a 1st for an expiring, undersized C with no offensive game who is terrible on defense just last year and Poeltl is 10x the player that Young was at the time. A team trading for Poeltl also obtains his bird rights and a contender over the cap can re-sign him above the cap while keeping their MLE. He is definitely worth 2 picks to the right team. Even that bum Mozgov got two firsts back in 2015 iirc.

    You are right about the pick, but my point is it's a pick we are likely to at least swap for anyway. Better to get the pick outright sure, but it's still a pick we can swap for anyway. And it's so far in the future its a pick that could mean nothing.

    I disagree about Poeltl being "10x the player young is". Poeltl has helped do exactly what in San Antonio? Nothing. He hasn't help us win a playoff series, or even a playoff game, or even make the playoffs. He has done nothing to stop us from having a historically bad defense. He does nothing for us on offense but set screens, and you don't need to pay a center his salary to do that.

    Talking about what Mozgov got in 2015 is completely irrelevant to what Poeltl can get in 2023. NBA was damn near a different sports back then. Mozgov also played in the nba finals...something I doubt Poeltl ever does unless he is sitting on the bench of a championship team.

    It's not that hard to believe tbh

  22. #147
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    No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

    At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.
    Good point. Cam Reddish is on his way out the league and was a top 10 pick.

  23. #148
    Veteran Maddog's Avatar
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    No matter what the draft experts say, every year there are always a few duds taken in the top 10 or lottery. This past year is no different. Some players need more than 1 year in college to develop, and then there are players that take a few years and a different team to develop. It happens pretty much every year and every draft. Then there are top college players that just suck in the NBA. Some talent but mostly hype.

    At least we got lucky with Keldon. He wasn't a top 10 pick or lottery pick but in retrospect his stats prove he should have been.
    In the 2019 class
    Keldon ranked 8 mp, 6 ppg, 3 rpg and 11 in WS

  24. #149
    Make a trade steal
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    Trade to land Shaedon Sharpe

    Sa: gets Sharpe + S. Barnes + O Porter
    Portland: gets Og Anunoby
    Toronto: gets Poeltl + Keldon Johnson + Josh Hart + 2025 first round from Portland + 2027 lottery protected from Portland

    Portland gets another star to win now
    Toronto gets a nice return for Og Anunoby
    Spurs rebuilding for the future

  25. #150
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Trade to land Shaedon Sharpe

    Sa: gets Sharpe + S. Barnes + O Porter
    Portland: gets Og Anunoby
    Toronto: gets Poeltl + Keldon Johnson + Josh Hart + 2025 first round from Portland + 2027 lottery protected from Portland

    Portland gets another star to win now
    Toronto gets a nice return for Og Anunoby
    Spurs rebuilding for the future
    They aren’t selling Barnes for that.

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