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  1. #201
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    Second most talented player on the least talented team in the NBA.

    I actually do expect to throw a horrible roster around our next few lottery picks. Those writings are already on the wall and it probably is the best strategy so we can secure 3-5 years worth of high lottery picks to stand a chance. Even Wemby won’t move the needle his first few years with this roster.
    Agreed, it is going to take a minimum of 3 years of getting top 6 picks to upgrade our talent pool. I am OK signing Poodle for cheap if we can not get a decent trade this year. If we can not then I am looking at moving him in 2025

  2. #202
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    I think itís Boston or Toronto or basically nobody in my opinion. He needs to go to a team where they donít need a star and they are at least in their eyes somewhat close to competing. But if itís like most teams where thereís a typical star player, thereís no way theyíre gonna push for yak to be on the team. Itís not like theyíre going to peruse through advanced metrics and come to that conclusion. My gut feeling is most typical NBA stars donít think much at all of yak. Iím not saying this to say that he is a bad player but I donít think most players or teams are going to appreciate his, how should we say, nuance?
    I think Toronto or Phoenix and my dark horse team is the Lakers..

  3. #203
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    More reliable than Robert Williams, sure. But to pretend Poeltl is a tier above Robert Williams when healthy is laughable, that's Spurs' bias speaking. He's better than Mitc Robinson at this point in time, but he's also 3 years older. Poeltl is a good starting caliber center (above average), but can't shoot FTs, let alone 3s. He'd have a hard time closing games in a playoff series, for instance. That's not the most sought after center archetype these days, to the point where teams will allocate a big chunk of their salary cap to him. Maybe someone overpays, sure, it happens all the time. But it's not guaranteed, and certainly not advisable.
    The best ability is AVAILability.

    You havenít seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? Heíll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, heíd be at about 70% r/n.

  4. #204
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    The best ability is AVAILability.

    You haven’t seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? He’ll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, he’d be at about 70% r/n.
    You forget to take your pills gramps?

  5. #205
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    Poeltl fits next to Wemby. Also fits with Scoot. If you can get a good haul trade him, if not resign him

  6. #206
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    OK, you convinced me.
    Lol, you can believe whatever the you want. Jakob Poeltl has four inches height over Robert Williams, is bigger, stronger. He is much more durable. The only thing Williams does better is block shots, although only .4 more per 36 minutes. Williams was a much better shotblocker than he is now. Their rebounding is a wash. Poeltl is a much better scorer, while Williams is more of a dunk-spot guy. Poeltl blows him away as a facilitator and he gets half again as many steals.

    There's honestly not much of a comparison. Williams cannot stay healthy, is much smaller (PF sized), cannot facilitate the same way. Unless you're paying the Boston Celtics premium (e.g. media bias), Poeltl is the player you'd want every single time.

  7. #207
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Lol, you can believe whatever the you want. Jakob Poeltl has four inches height over Robert Williams, is bigger, stronger. He is much more durable. The only thing Williams does better is block shots, although only .4 more per 36 minutes. Williams was a much better shotblocker than he is now. Their rebounding is a wash. Poeltl is a much better scorer, while Williams is more of a dunk-spot guy. Poeltl blows him away as a facilitator and he gets half again as many steals.


    There's honestly not much of a comparison. Williams cannot stay healthy, is much smaller (PF sized), cannot facilitate the same way. Unless you're paying the Boston Celtics premium (e.g. media bias), Poeltl is the player you'd want every single time.
    When you are this close to perennial contention you should actually want BOTH.

  8. #208
    You never know JPB's Avatar
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    I think the Spurs consider victor a power forward and not a center, at least, according to TimVPs article that one time.
    Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

    Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

    Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.

  9. #209
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Sure but he'd still be a rim protector and a Wemby/Sochan "small ball" combo (hilarious with a 7'5 guy) would offer a serious dilemma to opponents...

    Did you see how quick Wemby can read and recover from the perimeter to come and block guys going for the lay-up thanks to his pterodactyl arms... That's another unique skill he possesses, he doesn't have to be as close as any normal big to block someone, reason why they often don't see the block coming or even possible...

    Just add a couple 3 point shooters around and man, there's nothing for the opponent to stop that. And again, if you play Wemby with Poetl, that means you let Sochan on the bench.
    Iíve heard this Victor character is pretty good. Ha. Yes. Absolutely. Victor and Jeremy. Vassel and Keldon as less creators and more spot up shooters, but we still need a player to break things down. Jones is great at minimizing turnovers but not great at actually distributing, at least not any sort of high level. So weíre still another draft away in this fantasy scenario.

    Edit: Unless Wesley somehow explodes. Statistically, thatís probably a low chance, it may be better than an 18% chance of getting Victor.

    Anyway.

  10. #210
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    As usual, the Poeltl discourse sways too far in either direction.

    Trade him at all costs. This team needs as many assets and "bites at the apple" as it can get.

    He's not a "good fit next to Wembanyama" because the third big in this hypothetical, Sochan, also can't shoot which means the guy who's development should take precedence would be relegated to mostly floor spacer and it's still unclear what caliber of shooter he is.

    Even if he were a "good fit next to Wembanyama", who cares? This team would still need at least another top tier pick and having Collins/Bassey eat a combined 30 something mpg would help with that.

    Center has never been more saturated, it's the easiest position to find competent play out of, they should have ample opportunity at myriad ones with their own picks going forward and as solid as Poeltl is, there's nothing special or unique about him.

  11. #211
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    As usual, the Poeltl discourse sways too far in either direction.

    Trade him at all costs. This team needs as many assets and "bites at the apple" as it can get.

    He's not a "good fit next to Wembanyama" because the third big in this hypothetical, Sochan, also can't shoot which means the guy who's development should take precedence would be relegated to mostly floor spacer and it's still unclear what caliber of shooter he is.

    Even if he were a "good fit next to Wembanyama", who cares? This team would still need at least another top tier pick and having Collins/Bassey eat a combined 30 something mpg would help with that.

    Center has never been more saturated, it's the easiest position to find competent play out of, they should have ample opportunity at myriad ones with their own picks going forward and as solid as Poeltl is, there's nothing special or unique about him.
    Love busting your balls but this is spot on. My sentiments exactly.

  12. #212
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.

  13. #213
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I think Collins is a better fit with Victor, as Collins can space the floor for Victor to operate. Whereas Poeltl’s defender could clog the lane for Victor.

  14. #214
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    I think Collins is a better fit with Victor, as Collins can space the floor for Victor to operate. Whereas Poeltl’s defender could clog the lane for Victor.
    I’m pretty sure PATFO aren’t getting this granular given we have a small chance of getting Victor to begin with.

  15. #215
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けろボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I didn't forget any of those, I purposefully left them out because they're not comparable.
    Gobert is a perennial DPOY and multiple times all NBA and all Star.
    Vucevic was a multiple times all star who averaged close to 20 & 10 for half a decade (he's just washed now).
    Ayton lives off of his promise and former no. 1 status, the Suns reluctantly matched because they couldn't afford to lose him as an asset.
    Allen is better, younger, and even made an all star team.
    Porzingis is an entirely different player, he's not a traditional center at all, so his name makes no sense in this list.
    Nurkic is the only one you mentioned who I'd take Poeltl over, but his contract is a burden and I certainly wouldn't advocate giving an average center a big contract using him as an example.
    At the end of the day, Poeltl is a good player (better than average starting center) but I'd be careful to give him a huge contract simply because we're just horrible. At 16M/17M per year he's probably worth, much more than that and he might turn into a burden in a couple of years.
    3 million of a ~$140-150 million cap is make or break? So you want to excuse overpaying for Ayton to keep him as an asset but not paying Poetl a reasonable market value contract to keep him as an asset? Also Gobert is statistically very similar to Poetl now, don't care what he did in the past in Utah. You got him on your allstar team this year?

  16. #216
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    Collins' jack of all trades, master of non type style is a better fit since it'd make it easier to plumb the depth's of Wembanyama's versatility.

    The idea would be to make Wembanyama the day one centerpiece of the offense, not some stay-in-your-lane finisher like most of these other hybrid bigs.

  17. #217
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I’m pretty sure PATFO aren’t getting this granular given we have a small chance of getting Victor to begin with.
    My favorite passtime is doing simulation in Tankathon, where Spurs got #1 overall on 1st try today

  18. #218
    クソ漏れそうだよ、助けろボゲ baseline bum's Avatar
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    imo it's silly to worry about how Poeltl and Sochan fit with Wenbayama. The Spurs only have a maximum of a 14% chance of getting the #1 pick. Get all the assets you can for Poeltl now, bird in the hand etc.
    Poeltl is the bird in the hand if he wants to stay. Gonna have a hard time getting a better player than him with a pick outside the lottery. If he says he wants out to play for a contender then yeah gotta move him for whatever you can get. But if he wants to be here I'd rather pay him than trade him for a middling pick. It's not like the Spurs would be looking at the luxury tax any time in the life of a Poeltl contract and capspace means when you're an undesirable market to FA and a ty team.

  19. #219
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    3 million of a ~$140-150 million cap is make or break? So you want to excuse overpaying for Ayton to keep him as an asset but not paying Poetl a reasonable market value contract to keep him as an asset? Also Gobert is statistically very similar to Poetl now, don't care what he did in the past in Utah. You got him on your allstar team this year?
    I think you lost track of the original argument, which was "Which non star center is getting that kind of money?". My point was that it was very hard for non star centers to get top money, and I cited the couple most recent centers that came to mind: Robert Williams (12M per year on average) & Mitc Robinson (15M per year on average).
    Then you started to bring up a lot of other players, such as Gobert, Vucevic, Porzingis, but that comparison doesn't hold because at the time those contracts were signed, every one of them was significantly more accomplished that Poeltl is today, even if today they've lost a step (or several). If they entered free agency right now, none of them would be getting anywhere near as much as they did.
    The most recent example of a non star center getting top money is Ayton, but I brought to your attention the cir stances under which he signed that contract (remember the Suns were on the verge of not signing him as a result, and he's perceived as being grossly overpaid throughout the league).
    My point isn't that the Spurs SHOULDN'T sign Poeltl, but rather that they shouldn't IF IT'S AT THE EXPENSE OF HIM BECOMING A NEGATIVE ASSET as a result. And, again, if he's getting paid significantly more than players at his position and archetype (which is losing ground season after season) and similar level (give or take), then you have to wonder at what point it's worth it to sign him at any cost.
    The argument of the difference being 3M is misleading, because you may consider it a small step, but in 4 years with raises that may amount to 14M, and that IS significant to his value as an asset, because say a contending team is interested in him, they're likely over the cap, and the total cost could end up 4x as much, which actually CAN break a deal. And that influences his value as an asset.
    In short, it's not that I desperately want to drop Poeltl, but overpaying for older players in a career year is a dangerous proposition, and I'd hate for us to be so blinded by the idea of losing him, that we end up signing him to a contract that renders him untradeable a la John Collins, which could end up much worse.

  20. #220
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I’ve heard this Victor character is pretty good. Ha. Yes. Absolutely. Victor and Jeremy. Vassel and Keldon as less creators and more spot up shooters, but we still need a player to break things down. Jones is great at minimizing turnovers but not great at actually distributing, at least not any sort of high level. So we’re still another draft away in this fantasy scenario.

    Edit: Unless Wesley somehow explodes. Statistically, that’s probably a low chance, it may be better than an 18% chance of getting Victor.

    Anyway.
    Just noticing Blake’s stats in Austin since his return, and I think the PG experiment could be over. He had zero and three assists the last two box scores I checked.

  21. #221
    Veteran Ariel's Avatar
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    The best ability is AVAILability.
    That's not the point I was making, but rather that they're comparable players and as such there's no reason Poeltl should get twice as much as Robert Williams did just a year ago, which predates his latest series of troubling injuries.
    You haven’t seen him shoot FTs lately, have you? He’ll have no problem closing games. If he had adapted the mostly one handed method at the beginning of the year, he’d be at about 70% r/n.
    Disregarding 8 years of his career in favor of a handful of games, and pretending that's an unequivocal predictor of future performance at the line, is borderline idiotic to say the least. By that token you could look at any fluctuation in patterns and drawing whatever conclusion you want. I thought you were smarter than this.

  22. #222
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    Poeltl is the bird in the hand if he wants to stay. Gonna have a hard time getting a better player than him with a pick outside the lottery. If he says he wants out to play for a contender then yeah gotta move him for whatever you can get. But if he wants to be here I'd rather pay him than trade him for a middling pick. It's not like the Spurs would be looking at the luxury tax any time in the life of a Poeltl contract and capspace means when you're an undesirable market to FA and a ty team.
    I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you arenít winning or contending.

    I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. Itís just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

    I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

    But if you can move Doug & Zach - ya keep Jakob unless itís a great deal.

    But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak

  23. #223
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    I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you aren’t winning or contending.

    I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. It’s just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

    I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

    But if you can move Doug & Zach - ya keep Jakob unless it’s a great deal.

    But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak
    Zach can just be waived if his salary is really a concern...he's non guaranteed next year...I personally don't see the money as an issue at all though...

  24. #224
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I get it - BUT SA needs to think looooooong and hard if they want to pay a Center; albeit a very good player, 20-25M a year in this league. Especially when you arenít winning or contending.

    I like Jakob and if we can move Zach+Doug for picks then I definitely am ok keeping Jak since it makes his first new year free (money that was going to Zach + Doug just gets re-routed to Jak). But paying someone 20-25M on a losing team I am not sure is so wise. You can trade him now vs possibly running risk of a deal looking really not so great potentially. Itís just a risk; even if it may be a small one.

    I am just not a fan of paying guys on the older side of a rebuild 20M+, even if we have cap space, unless you are going to make a leap in the first 2 years of their deal. Especially a Center.

    But if you can move Doug & Zach - ya keep Jakob unless itís a great deal.

    But getting even one fully unprotected pick I think would be VERY hard to turn down IMVHO (even the one from BOS where the swap gets turned into a straight up pick to us and maybe a 2nd rounder too) and I really do like Jak
    who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon

  25. #225
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    who else are we paying anytime soon? outside of vassell there is nothing on the horizon
    Agreed. The biggest reason to pay/over pay Jak is that we have near infinite cap. This whole squad is getting a nice binus this year because we couldn’t meet the minimum. I see this happening for the immediate future.

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