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  1. #476
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Spurstalk doesn’t realize how administrative the trade for Thad Young actually was.

    1. We didn’t get an FRP for him, it was merely a pick swap from 33 to 20.

    2. The Raptors dumped Dragic (who did not want to play in TO) and moved under the lux tax threshold so they could partake in a record redistribution of lux tax bonuses for the non payers.

    3. By acquiring Thad’s bird rights rhe Raptors were able to stay under the cap in the 2022 off-season, retain Thad AND sign Otto Porter to an exception.

    That was a reciprocal dealing at the time. I truly doubt the Raps will pay fair value for Jak at this juncture given how bad they are year over year unless they can turn FVV/GTJ into into an immediate win now player. At that point Jak makes
    more sense.

  2. #477
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Makes sense. I’m still glad we got Branham—there’s hope for him. But I don’t see T Dot jumping back in on Yak right now. I agree with that.

  3. #478
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Spurstalk doesn’t realize how administrative the trade for Thad Young actually was.

    1. We didn’t get an FRP for him, it was merely a pick swap from 33 to 20.

    2. The Raptors dumped Dragic (who did not want to play in TO) and moved under the lux tax threshold so they could partake in a record redistribution of lux tax bonuses for the non payers.

    3. By acquiring Thad’s bird rights rhe Raptors were able to stay under the cap in the 2022 off-season, retain Thad AND sign Otto Porter to an exception.

    That was a reciprocal dealing at the time. I truly doubt the Raps will pay fair value for Jak at this juncture given how bad they are year over year unless they can turn FVV/GTJ into into an immediate win now player. At that point Jak makes
    more sense.
    good point tbh

  4. #479
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    Spurstalk doesn’t realize how administrative the trade for Thad Young actually was.

    1. We didn’t get an FRP for him, it was merely a pick swap from 33 to 20.

    2. The Raptors dumped Dragic (who did not want to play in TO) and moved under the lux tax threshold so they could partake in a record redistribution of lux tax bonuses for the non payers.

    3. By acquiring Thad’s bird rights rhe Raptors were able to stay under the cap in the 2022 off-season, retain Thad AND sign Otto Porter to an exception.

    That was a reciprocal dealing at the time. I truly doubt the Raps will pay fair value for Jak at this juncture given how bad they are year over year unless they can turn FVV/GTJ into into an immediate win now player. At that point Jak makes
    more sense.
    At the spin job.

    It was an incredibly stupid/arrogant trade by the Craptors (who like to act like big shots but have always been cheap) and one without precedent.

    A non contender, already poised to be one and done in the playoffs, acquiring a veteran player who had no path to significant minutes or ability to alter their ceiling, for the right to move back significantly in the draft.

  5. #480
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Other fans pay no attention to the Spurs. They were surprised Derrick White was as good as he was. They were flabbergasted that Murray received what he did. They literally have no idea what Spurs players are.
    Ok, so you have no idea either what players from other teams are, and have no idea what Poeltl could bring home then, and basically no idea what you're talking about here, right? Or only spurs fans know the NBA and can talk about any other teams players like we spend our time doing here...?

    I don't know where you've seen fans were surprised by White and Murray trades and don't know spurs players (and then the NBA), but there are plenty of very educated fans thoughout the NBA who perfectly knew them, starting by Boston and Atlanta fans..

    Go on other teams fan boards, like I do sometimes, and you'll see many peeps know the spurs even better than some spurs "fans" here do. I remember chatting with celtics fans when White was on the block and they knew every aspect of his game, qualities and defaults...

  6. #481
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Spurstalk doesn’t realize how administrative the trade for Thad Young actually was.

    1. We didn’t get an FRP for him, it was merely a pick swap from 33 to 20.

    2. The Raptors dumped Dragic (who did not want to play in TO) and moved under the lux tax threshold so they could partake in a record redistribution of lux tax bonuses for the non payers.

    3. By acquiring Thad’s bird rights rhe Raptors were able to stay under the cap in the 2022 off-season, retain Thad AND sign Otto Porter to an exception.

    That was a reciprocal dealing at the time. I truly doubt the Raps will pay fair value for Jak at this juncture given how bad they are year over year unless they can turn FVV/GTJ into into an immediate win now player. At that point Jak makes
    more sense.
    At the spin job.

    It was an incredibly stupid/arrogant trade by the Craptors (who like to act like big shots but have always been cheap) and one without precedent.

    A non contender, already poised to be one and done in the playoffs, acquiring a veteran player who had no path to significant minutes or ability to alter their ceiling, for the right to move back significantly in the draft.

    It's somewhere in the middle. Moving up from 33 to 20 is probably about a very-late first's worth of value. I think both semantically and spiritually it's appropriate to say the Spurs got a first for Young. It's also true, though, that the trade had more benefits to the salary-strapped Raptors than just their on-the-court performance. It saved a lot of money and added flexibility under the tax. We've seen the Spurs make moves for less incentive before. I think the Spurs got good value, but I also think Ujuri is really happy with that deal. Koloko seems like a guy Masai would covet, and I actually think he would've picked him at 20 ala Cabocolo back in the day. So he saved more money to get his guy. Most likely, he thought the draft was flat after the lottery and saw little value in having moved back. The Spurs seemed to think the value of the draft lay in the second half of the first round. For them, it was worth quite a bit to move up to draft Branham and Wesley. Unlikely Ujuri, I think SA needed to make the move to secure their guy, though we won't know who "won" for a few years still.

    I think the Thad trade shows good will between the front offices that could help with the Poeltl trade. I don't the Raptors will pay fair value too because of direction, but I also think they could see a trade that moves Trent for value that results in them getting Jakob's Bird rights as a move still worth doing if they truly see Poeltl as a part of their future. Insofar as that trade is possible, maybe SA can get some compensation they want by taking on bad salary. But I don't think PATFO has the Raptors over a barrel on this.

  7. #482
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Ya - I agree with that sentiment Chinook

    I don’t think SA has anyone over a barrel. Now, Jakob is a valuable piece to a winning team and their arent many Centers capable of providing non-scoring legit impact who still have reasonable salaries so I can see him being valued.

    But not like a bidding war. BOS makes sense, TOR makes sense and all the trades they have done together have to increase the odds that they are willing to get things done. Especially for BOS who should be willing to pay a fair price since they can legit win it all and Jak has familiarity with Derrick already. That is a key factor IMO since fit matters and comfort matters and Jak can definitely play with White and reap benefits maybe quicker

  8. #483
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Ok, so you have no idea either what players from other teams are, and have no idea what Poeltl could bring home then, and basically no idea what you're talking about here, right? Or only spurs fans know the NBA and can talk about any other teams players like we spend our time doing here...?

    I don't know where you've seen fans were surprised by White and Murray trades and don't know spurs players (and then the NBA), but there are plenty of very educated fans thoughout the NBA who perfectly knew them, starting by Boston and Atlanta fans..

    Go on other teams fan boards, like I do sometimes, and you'll see many peeps know the spurs even better than some spurs "fans" here do. I remember chatting with celtics fans when White was on the block and they knew every aspect of his game, qualities and defaults...
    There were plenty of fans who didn't like the White deal. I had many arguments with RGMers who thought he wasn't worth a first. Murray, I think, was well liked last summer but wasn't much before then. His stock exploded with the All-Star appearance. I think now, the Spurs are judged pretty fairly. Poeltl is basically a lock for a first from most folks I've read talk about him. Keldon and Vassell are both on the "don't ask" list. Richardson is a solid journeyman. The only issue I have is folks thinking the Spurs would pay or take back less value to get rid of McDermott. I think that's out of touch, but we have posters here who may agree with that, so I don't know.

  9. #484
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    Spurstalk doesn’t realize how administrative the trade for Thad Young actually was.

    1. We didn’t get an FRP for him, it was merely a pick swap from 33 to 20.

    2. The Raptors dumped Dragic (who did not want to play in TO) and moved under the lux tax threshold so they could partake in a record redistribution of lux tax bonuses for the non payers.

    3. By acquiring Thad’s bird rights rhe Raptors were able to stay under the cap in the 2022 off-season, retain Thad AND sign Otto Porter to an exception.

    That was a reciprocal dealing at the time. I truly doubt the Raps will pay fair value for Jak at this juncture given how bad they are year over year unless they can turn FVV/GTJ into into an immediate win now player. At that point Jak makes
    more sense.

    Correct about the trade, with perhaps the only point to add, it’s also how the Spurs got rid of Eubanks. He left with Thad.

    As to any trade with the Raps now, it all depends on which way they decide to go, and when they decide. And like you say, who else they might be able to get.

    It’s said that the Raps have an interest in moving both FVV and OG, which would look su iously like a blowup, at least a minor one. If they’ve decided to light the fuse, I don’t know that they’d want Poeltl. But nothing is clear yet.

  10. #485
    Formerly Spurs21 KingKev's Avatar
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    Correct about the trade, with perhaps the only point to add, it’s also how the Spurs got rid of Eubanks. He left with Thad.

    As to any trade with the Raps now, it all depends on which way they decide to go, and when they decide. And like you say, who else they might be able to get.

    It’s said that the Raps have an interest in moving both FVV and OG, which would look su iously like a blowup, at least a minor one. If they’ve decided to light the fuse, I don’t know that they’d want Poeltl. But nothing is clear yet.
    I think we could swing a Thad like deal for JRich tbh. Not with the Raps but another playoff team potentially.

    The Raps season is done. They have two decisions to make. Trade one of GTJ/FVV and one of Siakim/Barnes/OG to balance out their roster. Not a rebuild but a re-tool. I don’t see how Jak really helps that.

  11. #486
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    I think we could swing a Thad like deal for JRich tbh. Not with the Raps but another playoff team potentially.

    The Raps season is done. They have two decisions to make. Trade one of GTJ/FVV and one of Siakim/Barnes/OG to balance out their roster. Not a rebuild but a re-tool. I don’t see how Jak really helps that.

    The Raps won’t trade Barnes on that draft-scale contract. When a player is any good, which Barnes is, those draft contracts are the best bargain in the game. Ujiri would never let it go now.

    I think the Nets could use Josh Richardson, for Joe Harris, but their draft picks are a mess.

    If the Celtics are serious about a le run, and not just dorking around, they need to find a way to get Poeltl. I still think so.

  12. #487
    Veteran Big Empty's Avatar
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    I got 10 bucks cash app that sais we dont move Purtle

  13. #488
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    ^ I think they do. He's slowly being phased out recently and is clearly not fully engaged.

    Just like Jones' role increased leading up to the White trade, Collins' has increased recently too.

  14. #489
    Veteran Dverde's Avatar
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    ^ I think they do. He's slowly being phased out recently and is clearly not fully engaged.

    Just like Jones' role increased leading up to the White trade, Collins' has increased recently too.
    It could be the Spurs trying to keep his FA value down. What incentive do they have to play him during a tank when they want to re-sign him next year. You can’t piss him off by benching him or playing him little minutes.

  15. #490
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    ^ I think they do. He's slowly being phased out recently and is clearly not fully engaged.

    Just like Jones' role increased leading up to the White trade, Collins' has increased recently too.
    If anybody bites the 2FRP’s, then he gets moved and Collins start, who is increasingly getting bigger role and playing well. If no takers, then Poeltl stays and gets resigned maybe on a S&T like Demar. I don’t see the Spurs desperately trading Poeltl for peanuts.

  16. #491
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    It could be the Spurs trying to keep his FA value down. What incentive do they have to play him during a tank when they want to re-sign him next year. You can’t piss him off by benching him or playing him little minutes.
    Nothing short of a significant injury is going to do that at this point. He's going to command 4/$70-80M (probably towards the lower end).

    Playing him less minutes likely would piss him off unless he was working with them on concert, which is likely the case.

    If anybody bites the 2FRP’s, then he gets moved and Collins start, who is increasingly getting bigger role and playing well. If no takers, then Poeltl stays and gets resigned maybe on a S&T like Demar. I don’t see the Spurs desperately trading Poeltl for peanuts.
    The Thunder loom as serious threats to sign Poeltl outright, but otherwise sure the Spurs would have sign-and-trade leverage, but that would prolong the risk of his getting a significant injury and why would the offers change by then?

    Short of the Celtics, anyone who trades for him will do so with the intent of re-signing him and should have little to no trouble doing so.

  17. #492
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    If anybody bites the 2FRP’s, then he gets moved and Collins start, who is increasingly getting bigger role and playing well. If no takers, then Poeltl stays and gets resigned maybe on a S&T like Demar. I don’t see the Spurs desperately trading Poeltl for peanuts.
    The spurs got lucky in getting 3 firsts for Murray and I think the league noticed. Atlanta and Minnesota gave away a lot of draft capital and those teams aren't doing all that great right now. So yeah, NBA teams have taken notice and some of them are pretty saavy or at least cautious about trading away multiple draft picks. The spurs won't get that lucky again.

    He's definitely worth more than peanuts, but probably not two firsts - at least not two non lottery protected firsts. We'll see in about a week. if they do get two decent firsts (fingers crossed) don't wait, don't ask questions , just say ok and take the deal, then quietly walk away.

  18. #493
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The problem with trading Poeltl - and I'm for trading Poeltl - is the question of replacing him. Collins is good, but slight, foul-prone, etc. Jakob Poeltl was a #9 draft pick and, I'd say, has fulfilled that promise. So where do we get a starting level center?

    Zach Collins was a #10 draft pick, by the way. That's what it costs to go for these sorts of players.

  19. #494
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    The problem with trading Poeltl - and I'm for trading Poeltl - is the question of replacing him. Collins is good, but slight, foul-prone, etc. Jakob Poeltl was a #9 draft pick and, I'd say, has fulfilled that promise. So where do we get a starting level center?

    Zach Collins was a #10 draft pick, by the way. That's what it costs to go for these sorts of players.
    Get ready to hear some Euro big name we’re never heard of come over next summer

  20. #495
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Get ready to hear some Euro big name we’re never heard of come over next summer
    Robertas Javtokas.

  21. #496
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    Get ready to hear some Euro big name we’re never heard of come over next summer
    That would be funny except that its a real possibility with the spurs.

  22. #497
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    That would be funny except that its a real possibility with the spurs.
    That or get ready for a Robin Lopez type

  23. #498
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    The problem with trading Poeltl - and I'm for trading Poeltl - is the question of replacing him. Collins is good, but slight, foul-prone, etc. Jakob Poeltl was a #9 draft pick and, I'd say, has fulfilled that promise. So where do we get a starting level center?

    Zach Collins was a #10 draft pick, by the way. That's what it costs to go for these sorts of players.
    I guess it depends on when we'd want to replace him? If we're talking about finishing this season we're looking at Zollins, Dieng maybe...possibly a G League guy...if we're talking about next season it's probably Zollins, a FA, and our 2nd rd pick used on one of the bigs that always falls in the draft.

  24. #499
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    I think we could swing a Thad like deal for JRich tbh. Not with the Raps but another playoff team potentially.

    The Raps season is done. They have two decisions to make. Trade one of GTJ/FVV and one of Siakim/Barnes/OG to balance out their roster. Not a rebuild but a re-tool. I don’t see how Jak really helps that.
    Completely agree Poeltl to Raptors for what Spurs are asking makes zero sense for them. They clearly need to decide on a complete reboot or a more modest re-shuffling.

    And I assume that comes down to what they think of their primary players and their economics to a rebuilding team.

    If they are trading away one or more of Siakim, Barnes, or even OG, the only way they're planning on going is an initial reboot with high draft picks. Acquiring Poeltl under that scenario only kneecaps their stockpile.

    Poeltl looks to be staying on the Spurs at this point since I don't see Boston or the Lakers (two other most discussed landing spots) meeting PATFO's asking price, or really anything even close to it.

    I think PATFO has played this one poorly, quite frankly, by so publicly letting it be known what they expect for him because if they end up trading him for less, it'll be an immediate self-own humiliation. And no one will offer it.

  25. #500
    Erryday I'm Hustlin' Robz4000's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on when we'd want to replace him? If we're talking about finishing this season we're looking at Zollins, Dieng maybe...possibly a G League guy...if we're talking about next season it's probably Zollins, a FA, and our 2nd rd pick used on one of the bigs that always falls in the draft.
    Forgot about Bassey tbh. If Poeltl/Collins get traded his contract gets converted imo.

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