Factors that led to Spurs being irrelevant?

[JeffDuncan]

I will never understand investing damn near $100 million in Gasol and Mills. That was the downfall of this team. made no fukin sense whatsoever, but people have their head up popovich's ass so deep, they will defend it.

Add to that, Marco Belinelli. Quincy Pondexter. Dante Cunningham. Drew Eubanks. The incomparable Bryn Forbes. All of the waste and dead weight the Spurs kept adding to the roster.

People fantasize that if Leonard had stayed - with his injury and load management - the Spurs would have been in le contention. That is foolish nonsense. There’s no chance. Not with the kind of roster construction the Spurs displayed, they would not. First-round exit, is where they would have been, every time.

Yeah, sure, Leonard supported by Beli, Mills and Forbes will win the le. What are people smoking?

It’s a pipe dream. The Spurs were not going to win a le with Leonard. It’s just as well he’s gone.

[wildbill2u]

When you have 3 great players winning championships over two decades then you have no serious openings via high draft choices and TBH no openings on the court for the most part to give deserving youngsters much playing time. DJM was complaining about that in his recent interview. It doesn't matter that his opinion was pretty stupid for a 29th pick with lots of problems in his skillsets like handling, shooting, etc. , it was a probably a popular perception around the league that no one was going to break into a prominent role while we still had the Big 3.

The Kwahi thing might have broken the logjam and given us some continuing excellence, but for whatever reason, he didn't want to play here anymore. We still don't have the definitive explanation for this as all the folks involved have their own stories about what happened. But there is no doubt in my mind that we could have continued to be one of the best teams in the league if he had stayed.
However, once Kwahi left there was no putting Humpty Dumpty together again, even with the addition of LMA and DDR. I think folks should give the FO and coaching staff E for Effort on those moves.

Years of excellence have consequences, however, and twenty years of low draft choices finally took their inevitable toll.

[RC_Drunkford]

1. Uncle Dennis 50%
2. DeRozan trade 25%
3. Marcus Morris and Demarre Carroll signings 15%
4. Gasol/Mills extensions 10%

[RC_Drunkford]

Add to that, Marco Belinelli. Quincy Pondexter. Dante Cunningham. Drew Eubanks. The incomparable Bryn Forbes. All of the waste and dead weight the Spurs kept adding to the roster.

People fantasize that if Leonard had stayed - with his injury and load management - the Spurs would have been in le contention. That is foolish nonsense. There’s no chance. Not with the kind of roster construction the Spurs displayed, they would not. First-round exit, is where they would have been, every time.

Yeah, sure, Leonard supported by Beli, Mills and Forbes will win the le. What are people smoking?

It’s a pipe dream. The Spurs were not going to win a le with Leonard. It’s just as well he’s gone.

that's not true. The Spurs were about to trade for DeRozan regardless, while keeping either Murray or White.

LA/Gay/Kawi/DeRozan/White could've gone toe to toe with the Dubs

[JeffDuncan]

that's not true. The Spurs were about to trade for DeRozan regardless, while keeping either Murray or White.

LA/Gay/Kawi/DeRozan/White could've gone toe to toe with the Dubs

Dream on.

[TDMVPDPOY]

How bout the fat contract that was given to Pao Gasol.
Wonder if that stirred some chit up among some Spurs players including Nephew.

Real n!gger Dewayne Dedmon cut after he rightly told Patrick Beverly to shove it during Beverleys 100 illegal prance into DDs free throw shooting area.
Classy Pop quit playing DD after then and cut him.
One of Klaws best friend on team.

loyalty contracts destroyed the spurs from rebuilding or being able to keep the bench players...

i think the year the spurms loss dedmon, simmons, lee, west was a waste...didnt even bother trying to retain someone...i guess thats when kawhi saw the drawing on the wall with big3 on its last legs, the players around him slowly being casts away...but then again kawhi was going to leave anyway with or without those players leaving is another discussion....

[Sugus]

everyone quickly pointing fingers thinking about the question seriously. The true, and only, factor that led to the Spurs' current irrelevance is.... The NBA system itself.

Tell me which of the 30+ NBA teams have managed continued, unbroken, permanent relevance through the years - I'll wait. The fact is, no matter how high the highs (and there certainly have been dynasties and superteams for days throughout the NBA's 75 years), every single team that once dominated, has seen the "turn of the wheel" and, with it, the eventual drop to the bottom. Players age, the wheels fall off, talent drought, and the human factor of course - literally not a single team has managed to avoid it. Not the Celtics, nor the Lakers, nor the Spurs.

But of course, the Spurs should be singled out and excruciated for it, nevermind the 20 years of sustained excellence they've gifted to their arrogant fans. It's a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league, after all.

[John B]

The big 3 retirement was inevitable, and Spurs had heir apparent in Kawhi from 15th overall pick, then Uncle Dennis happened.

The big missis in the draft (Luka and Primo) imo were more Spurs trying to swing for a franchise player where Spurs were picking. It was a necessary risk for a small market team. It was the same risk that got them Kawhi, trading favorite GH for an unknown, but panned out, again until uncle Dennis happened.

In hindsight, Spurs should’ve tanked immediately after Kawhi, but did the “noble” way to showcase the Vets to best situations which was the biggest mistake to many. But it says big about the Spurs as a class act organization. I think that was the legacy that PATFO wants to leave. By the end of the day, that makes me a Spurs fan - despite where Spurs records now, doing what is right.

[Sugus]

The big 3 retirement was inevitable, and I thought Spurs had heir apparent in Kawhi, then Uncle Dennis came.

The big missis in the draft (Luka and Primo) were more trying to swing for a franchise player where Spurs were picking.

In hindsight, Spurs should’ve tanked immediately after but did the “noble” way to showcase the Vets to best situations which was also the biggest mistake. But in the long run it says big about the Spurs as a class act organization. I think that was the legacy that PATFO wants to leave. By the end of the day, that makes me a Spurs fan I guess.

Not that I disagree with your points, but they highlight just what's ridiculous about the hair-splitting in this thread. Should the Spurs have tanked sooner, or not traded for DDR/LMA? Maybe. We can have that discussion all day.

But the bottomline is, no matter when the Spurs should've had to tank.... They would've had to tank. They were gonna be irrelevant, eventually, anyways. That's the way the NBA cycle goes, and no team has escaped or will escape it forever. You always, always, end up tearing it up, building through the draft (or trades if you're LA/Miami), and starting over.

[KingKev]

I agree with Sugus that it was inevitable and it party of the cycle of even great franchises. Even the Kawhi sauga; trams lose stars via free agency all the time. At least we got something for him.

Regarding blowing it up sooner I don’t support the view that it is hindsight. Most knew in those early DDR/LMA days we needed to blow it up. It was a very common view from Spurs fans and media alike. I fully hold PATFO accountable for delaying the inevitable. Maybe we get lucky and win the VW sweepstakes and most will forget just how bad PATFO has been these last 5yrs or so.

[John B]

Not that I disagree with your points, but they highlight just what's ridiculous about the hair-splitting in this thread. Should the Spurs have tanked sooner, or not traded for DDR/LMA? Maybe. We can have that discussion all day.

But the bottomline is, no matter when the Spurs should've had to tank.... They would've had to tank. They were gonna be irrelevant, eventually, anyways. That's the way the NBA cycle goes, and no team has escaped or will escape it forever. You always, always, end up tearing it up, building through the draft (or trades if you're LA/Miami), and starting over.

I think “tanking” is not in Pop’s vocabulary, more like “rebuilding.” It’s frustrating but it’s what makes Spurs different from any other team, imo. Pop will always compete and will not deliberately throw games. He would have players in DNP during the championship years, which resulted to game losses, but kept them fresh for the playoffs which was the “ultimate goal.” Likewise, the ultimate goal is to rebuild core players, then take a “big swing” at a franchise player(s). I agree with trading DDR/LMA asap and it frustrates, but again PATFO always did right why I just leave to their better judgements. I always say, none of us here won 5 rings with a small market during Kobe/Shaq, LeBron/Banana Boat prime. So I stand by what the best organization would do.

[Slippy]

if "uncle dennis" just means "whatever happened with the kawhi situation" that is #1 and there isn't a close second

the other part would be wasting draft picks

This and number 3 pop overstaying the coaching role while being president of spurs... related to number 2.

[K...]

Number 1mistake on this board is saying spurs should tank after kawhi left. You 99/100 try derozan, LMA. We will be lucky to see talent like that for many years and you have to let players work it out. Derozan sucked but the spurs will draft 15players before reaching a derozan talent.

Look at the league now. Garbage. Prime LMA would be a top 5 player today.

[KingKev]

We barely had Prime LMA and certainly not in the DDR years. Didn’t help he showed up overweight and out of shape in the DDR era.

[JPB]

everyone quickly pointing fingers thinking about the question seriously. The true, and only, factor that led to the Spurs' current irrelevance is.... The NBA system itself.

Tell me which of the 30+ NBA teams have managed continued, unbroken, permanent relevance through the years - I'll wait. The fact is, no matter how high the highs (and there certainly have been dynasties and superteams for days throughout the NBA's 75 years), every single team that once dominated, has seen the "turn of the wheel" and, with it, the eventual drop to the bottom. Players age, the wheels fall off, talent drought, and the human factor of course - literally not a single team has managed to avoid it. Not the Celtics, nor the Lakers, nor the Spurs.

But of course, the Spurs should be singled out and excruciated for it, nevermind the 20 years of sustained excellence they've gifted to their arrogant fans. It's a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league, after all.

/thread.

[JPB]

To be continuously relevant that litterally means you should continuously be able to replace a Duncan/Manu/TP big 3 with late 20s FRPs and late SRPs, which isn't gonna happen, Nephew was an exception.... And teams prefer riding the tank road when their stars are gone than navigating into mediocrity. Took just a bit more time for Spurs because that's hard when you've been so good so long to become bottom feeders.

[ambchang]

It’s comical how spurs fans knew exactly what the front office is wrong in ever move but can’t give any reasonable alternatives. Trading away DDR and LMA? For what? What was the market? They developed DJM, White, Johnson and poetl way beyond expectations but all the spurs fans kept talking about were Luka and primo. Vassell and sochan are looking at least reasonable at their draft spots.

Of course I want the spurs to be contending for a le now, but those are unreasonable expectations.

Start rebuild early? Spurs fans think that miraculously they will always be at spots to pick up doncic, morant, lamelo and Cade in the drafts, when reality is that even if the spurs started tanking a few years earlier they would’ve been picking in the low lottery anyways.

[spurraider21]

It’s comical how spurs fans knew exactly what the front office is wrong in ever move but can’t give any reasonable alternatives. Trading away DDR and LMA? For what? What was the market? They developed DJM, White, Johnson and poetl way beyond expectations but all the spurs fans kept talking about were Luka and primo. Vassell and sochan are looking at least reasonable at their draft spots.

Of course I want the spurs to be contending for a le now, but those are unreasonable expectations.

Start rebuild early? Spurs fans think that miraculously they will always be at spots to pick up doncic, morant, lamelo and Cade in the drafts, when reality is that even if the spurs started tanking a few years earlier they would’ve been picking in the low lottery anyways.

No you’re right the best thing to do with sit on LMA, unnecessarily guarantee his contract, wait wait wait until he had no value, then waive him

[ambchang]

No you’re right the best thing to do with sit on LMA, unnecessarily guarantee his contract, wait wait wait until he had no value, then waive him

Aldridge started going downhill in 19-20 and it was apparent then the spurs will not be close to contention with that core at all. He had a heart condition and that was it. Even then who were the spurs going to trade with? And for what? Nets for a first?

[KingKev]

Aldridge started going downhill in 19-20 and it was apparent then the spurs will not be close to contention with that core at all. He had a heart condition and that was it. Even then who were the spurs going to trade with? And for what? Nets for a first?

After summer 2019 it was very apparent it was time to break up that team. Had Marcus Morris honoured his word, DeMarre Carrol had something left and LMA showed up to training camp in shape that team could have been more compe ive but 20 games into that season it was clear it was time to break it up and LMA still had value at that time. He had strong value on 2020 draft day. PATFO just dropped the ball.

[scott]

everyone quickly pointing fingers thinking about the question seriously. The true, and only, factor that led to the Spurs' current irrelevance is.... The NBA system itself.

Tell me which of the 30+ NBA teams have managed continued, unbroken, permanent relevance through the years - I'll wait. The fact is, no matter how high the highs (and there certainly have been dynasties and superteams for days throughout the NBA's 75 years), every single team that once dominated, has seen the "turn of the wheel" and, with it, the eventual drop to the bottom. Players age, the wheels fall off, talent drought, and the human factor of course - literally not a single team has managed to avoid it. Not the Celtics, nor the Lakers, nor the Spurs.

But of course, the Spurs should be singled out and excruciated for it, nevermind the 20 years of sustained excellence they've gifted to their arrogant fans. It's a "what have you done for me lately" kind of league, after all.

This is a great point that so many take for granted. The Spurs 22-season playoff streak is not normal (hence why it is a record). The Spurs were so dominant during this stretch that they still have by far the highest winning % in NBA history, to the point where they would have to go on a 70-game losing streak that is matched by a 70-game winning streak by the Lakers or Celtics for either of those teams to tie our win %.

This is just the natural course of the league. How the Spurs respond to the pendulum swing is the real question.

[TD 21]

everyone quickly pointing fingers thinking about the question seriously. The true, and only, factor that led to the Spurs' current irrelevance is.... The NBA system itself.

S bag intentionally screwing the Spurs and the league allowing him to do so is not "the NBA system itself". On the contrary,, I can't think of a single other example of it in league history.

Instead of the Davis like haul he should have been worth, he was worth barely pennies on the dollar due to his antics.

The perception is that the Spurs targeted a win now package because of the playoff streak, coaching record and to a lesser extent having reaching an understanding with Aldridge, but the reality is they couldn't get anything resembling a significant young asset nor draft capital likely to lead to it.

[KingKev]

S bag intentionally screwing the Spurs and the league allowing him to do so is not "the NBA system itself". On the contrary,, I can't think of a single other example of it in league history.

Instead of the Davis like haul he should have been worth, he was worth barely pennies on the dollar due to his antics.

The perception is that the Spurs targeted a win now package because of the playoff streak, coaching record and to a lesser extent having reaching an understanding with Aldridge, but the reality is they couldn't get anything resembling a significant young asset nor draft capital likely to lead to it.

You are such a cry baby. As much as I dislike how he handled himself and drove down his trade value, stars leave their respective teams via free agency for NOTHING often. We at-least got a sandwich back for Leonard…. It could have been better if stubborn PATFO didn’t try to him over by sending him to Toronto. That backfired btw but your daddy will tell you all about it if you ever reconcile.

[TD 21]

You are such a cry baby. As much as I dislike how he handled himself and drove down his trade value, stars leave their respective teams via free agency for NOTHING often. We at-least got a sandwich back for Leonard…. It could have been better if stubborn PATFO didn’t try to him over by sending him to Toronto. That backfired btw but your daddy will tell you all about it if you ever reconcile.

Says the guy who does nothing but cry about everything Spurs and take the other side in every discussion.

Free agency is part of the game. In most cases, the teams know early and trade them for commensurate return.

What "we" got (and gave someone else) is far worse than that and the idea that they tried to screw him by sending him to Siberia is nonsense.

It was clear the moment it happened he was a Durant/Curry injury away (and they were due) from a tainted championship.

[K...]

You are such a cry baby. As much as I dislike how he handled himself and drove down his trade value, stars leave their respective teams via free agency for NOTHING often. We at-least got a sandwich back for Leonard…. It could have been better if stubborn PATFO didn’t try to him over by sending him to Toronto. That backfired btw but your daddy will tell you all about it if you ever reconcile.

How was the trade Toronto bad? Cold weather? Did the spurs have the responsibility to take the lakers package?