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Oh, I don’t see s re-signing him under any cir stances. That being said, with our glut of young talent, I don’t see any second rounder playing anywhere but Austin until way late in the season.
if he's going to be a specialist im not comparing him to the league average
i didnt say he's chopped liver. i pointed out that he's basically expiring. im not sure that PATFO sees him as a piece worth re-signing. im ok spending a 2nd rounder on a shooting specialist and i personally wouldnt let Graham's presence really influence my draft strategy
Oh, I don’t see s re-signing him under any cir stances. That being said, with our glut of young talent, I don’t see any second rounder playing anywhere but Austin until way late in the season.
The 16th pick will end up higher than that Toronto pick next year. That is what I'm predicting will happen.
Why would GS trade away their only first round pick for a pick that may not even convey and a mid second? What is in it for them?
I'm predicting that the Toronto pick will be higher.
Cap relief...lots of tax savings...
I would definitely do that for Cam Whitmore, Anthony Black, Taylor Hendricks or Keyonte George, but the first three will be long gone by then, so the latter is the only one I'd realistically pull the trigger for in that scenario. Also there's a real chance Toronto is worse next year (with Trent Jr and VanVleet possibly leaving), so unless we're pretty damn certain it may be better to keep it. Lastly, I think Cason Wallace or Kobe Bufkin should be available at that spot, and Toronto would be a really good fit, so they might want to keep this pick.
I think the best the Spurs can hope for by trading Graham is a second, maybe two. He might have some value to a contender that wants instant offense off the bench.
im not sure any team will see Graham the player an an asset. at best people will see his contract as relief and might attach a pick to give up a worse contract in exchange for his, since he's a quasi-expiring deal
if we land wemby, i dont think it would behoove us to take on bad contracts anymore as we'd probably try to start actually tooling up. if we fall outside the top 3 though, id say its worth eating another bad deal in exchange for a reasonable pick
You might pull a 1st with an unbalanced deal. For example, if Miami sent us Lowry ($28m) for Grahams contract to get them under the cap that might be worth a first to them. Some iteration of that...not necessarily Miami...just using them as an example..
Opposites attract…
So the Toronto pick will fall between 7 and 15 you're saying? I'm saying it won't.
Last edited by rascal; 05-11-2023 at 08:54 PM.
1) i dont think "opposites attract" means what you think it means
2) the things i said arent mutually exclusive because graham isnt arriving to other teams in a vacuum. he's making over 12 mil. im sure if graham was a free agent, he'd have suitors. i dont think he'd have suitors lining up to pay him 12 mil per year. under his current contract, his real value is as cap relief. under a different contract, would be a different story. nobody was trading for 50 mills, but a competing Nets team had no problem signing him for 2/12
They have hard decisions to make this summer. They went from a 6 seed to the lottery with basically the same roster, and they’re going to have to subtract to keep a manageable payroll. Trent is already being shopped, and there’s no reason to keep a lottery team intact. If you’re cutting payroll, and offloading talent to do so, why stop with just staying in the lottery? Tank, rip the team up, and start ac ulating assets.
Toronto has to make some drastic changes if they want to make the playoffs next year, they could very well lose VanVleet & Trent Jr, Anunoby might get traded, Scottie Barnes has plateaued, and Siakam might start regressing. If they don't make the playoffs (which right now looks like the most likely scenario) they're looking at 13 or 14, which is basically the same spot they're in right now.
How much you willing to bet that pick will fall between 7 and 15?
$12M is next to nothing in todays NBA. it’s the 125th ranked salary. Steph makes 4 times as much, and by the end of his contract, he will make 5 times as much.
Talking to the wrong poster. I was pointing out that it isn’t as ridiculous as you might think.
i'll bet you $100 that graham's next contract earns him less than 12M per year
Signature bet. Loser has to change their sig to read [winners screen name] knows contracts better than I do until the end of the next regular season.
I don't think that's a great bet given that the MLE will be at about that level in 2024. Do I think Graham will reach that level? No. Could I see a scenario where he could get the full MLE from someone? Yes. If he plays well enough this year to not be waived, I could see him either getting a small extension ala Josh Richardson with Boston or being signed by a team who thinks he's a rotation guard. He like Richardson has fooled teams in the past. Speaking of Josh, it'll be interesting to see where he falls in terms of contract. I think he'll get the TPMLE 1-and-1 from some contender. But maybe someone stills seems more than that?
^ You're losing.
EDIT: Chinook posted right before me, I meant exstatic's bet that Graham will get 12M+ per year on his next contract.
Last edited by Ariel; 05-11-2023 at 10:45 PM.
I have way more interest in turning that Charlotte pick into a first than any other first the Spurs have. Toronto's pick is almost guaranteed to convey. Chicago's pick may not, but the Spurs have more time to read that situation. Charlotte's pick MIGHT convey if they successfully push for the playoffs, but it's not like it's a great pick even then. I'd say the likeliest outcome for the pick is to become seconds during years the Spurs will have too many contracts and will want to get rid of seconds. I think the Spurs could get the most value for it from the Hornets and they should aim there. But as I mentioned I'd be fine "losing" a bit of value for a GS trade. Someone mentioned Indy being a good partner due to them having all of their traded firsts this year. Issue with them is that it's not easy to balance the leger. If the Spurs and Pacers each have one of 26/29, neither likely wants 33. Finding a team that values 33 isn't as easy as it should be.
We'll get a better reading on the Charlotte pick's outlook after the lottery. If they land a top 3 pick and Miles Bridges re-signs, the expected return of Lamelo and growth of Mark Williams plus maybe an interesting signing, may yield a more credible pathway to conveying. With that said, it's still capped at 15 and there's no point in playing the odds if there's a real chance of extracting value now, so if that one + 44 + maybe a few seconds lands us a pick around 20 and there's value to be had there, I'm all for it. I agree we shouldn't wait for picks to become a problem, and the timeline allows for more risks now that it (hopefully) will in 2/3 years.
There are a lot of teams who don't have their late first round picks this year. Cleveland, Philadelphia, Denver, Boston, Milwaukee. Any of them could try to get a pick around that range back, or in the early second, considering most of them are going to have a disappointing playoffs and may want to try for another piece.
One of them might be okay trading a future first, likely also a late FRP, for the 33 plus something like another SRP. Problem is one of those CHA, IND, UTA teams may be preferable with their late firsts as it is.
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