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  1. #51
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Rasheed didn't want to be a team leader or a superstar. So he skated by on his talent. He had enough to skate by on.

  2. #52
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    Yeah, one of the series against the Lakers when they got swept I think, where Tim and really all the Spurs couldnít even put up a fight. Think they got blown out the last couple games because they were admitting defeat before the series was even really over. Tim was already the star. Admitting defeat before defeat happens is mentally weak.

    The Spurs-Pistons finals which most of us on these boards are intimately familiar. I believe it was after game 4 and the Pistons returned the favor of two lopsided wins. Itís vaguely in my memory that Pop was sitting next to and trying to console an inconsolable Tim because he had no answers after getting flustered by the Wallace brothers. Itís not as memorable to you because the Spurs ended up winning the series. Horry for game 5 and Manu in game 7 stepped up. Itís not that Tim didnít put up numbers, but he was clearly and visibly dejected after game 4 and needed his teammates to pick him up.

    Then there was the Phoenix series when Amare was giving Tim the business, raw no condom. I mean, Tim might as well have bent over on defense. Tim already a multiple time champ, two time MVP, all defensive guy still in his prime getting worked by a young buck. Again masked by the fact the Spurs won the series.

    And as you already mentioned the missed layup, so Iíll also mention the first round upset against the Grizz when an old man Duncan couldnít get it up to match up with old man game Zach Randolph. Tim had already relinquished keys to the team to Tony by that time, and age and wear and tear had gotten to him. And he couldnít do what some of the greats have been able to do late in their careers and find a way to bring it. I donít remember if he looked sad or dejected in that particular series loss, but itís an example of a series he could be criticized for not being mentally tough enough.

    Those instances are few and some masked by the fact they still won the series. But Tim still has had his tough performances and ones that could have been justifiably criticized. However, because he also won his share and stepped up in his share of big games and series, Spurs fans particularly arenít going to dwell on those.
    The way the spurs rolled over in that 2001 series was inexcusable, and Tim played a large role in that. He was pretty good in game 1, great in game 2, then totally disappeared in LA. This was after destroying KG and Dirk Iím back to back series, so he had no excuse for folding the way he did.

    05 against the Pistons in game 4, Iíll give him a pass because he was playing on 2 bad ankles against arguably the greatest defensive frontcourt ever. He redeemed himself with a solid game 5 outside of free throws, and a great game 7, and we won the series lol.

    05 against Amare was tough. Amare gave Timmy the business, but he was killing everyone in that series, and Timmy gave it right back to him averaging 27 pts, 14 rbs 3 ast 2 blk on 53% shootingÖagain on 2 bum ankles. Amare was incredible, but I wouldnít say that was a stain on Timmy in any way, especially since the spurs destroyed Phoenix in that series lol.

    Tbh the other major playoff series where Timmy (and mostly pop) came short was the backcourt sweep against the lakers in 04. Timmy was bad in games 3, 4, and 6, especially in second halves. And neither he or pop adjusted to Philís defense to shadow him at almost all times with a guard in the post. That 04 series is the one time as a fan of his that I felt let down (never saw 01 thank goodness).

  3. #53
    Groundhog Day TDfan2007's Avatar
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    And Jam, I think overall your point is that all great players have poor games or even series in the playoffs. I totally agree with that. The thing that distinguishes the greatest players from the pack imo is an overall ability to consistently elevate your game in the playoffs in a way that drives team success. AD is not that guy, mainly because he lacks consistency and compe ive fire, relatively speaking of course.

    He’s definitely better than Rasheed though lol

  4. #54
    TD since 97 ezau's Avatar
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    The Nuggets have never skunked a team until they faced the Lakers and it all happened under LeSwept's watch.

  5. #55
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    The Nuggets have never skunked a team until they faced the Lakers and it all happened under LeSwept's watch.
    Yup. They couldn't even do it to Katelyn Faber's boy toy.

    Beijing Le

  6. #56
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    I think the difference is that Rasheed never cared if he was great or not. Even all the way back in high school, he asked to sit entire second halves of blowout games so his teammates could get more playing time and more touches. Heís always seemingly put team first. And I donít know if itís necessarily a bad thing. But he didnít want to be great, he didnít need to be great. And all time greats need to have at least a little bit of selfishness in order to be great.

    Sheed never put up regular seasons or playoff performances that Anthony Davis has. Anthony Davis has put up all NBA seasons. Heís put up great playoff numbers. Sheed was always content with playing second, third, or even fourth fiddle. Anthony Davis is closer to Tim Duncan and KG than he is to Sheed. And Sheed is closer to Kenyon Martin or Lamar Odom than is to Anthony Davis.
    He's got rings. I am sure he can live with himself.

  7. #57
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    He's got rings. I am sure he can live with himself.
    Rasheed has one singular ring (2004). He narrowly missed out in 2000, 2005, and 2010.

    Anthony Davis has only a Mickey Mouse ring of the Disney bubble exhibition tournament of 2020 which is worth a souvenir ring you get your 6 year old at a Disney theme park there in Orlando.

  8. #58
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I think the difference is that Rasheed never cared if he was great or not. Even all the way back in high school, he asked to sit entire second halves of blowout games so his teammates could get more playing time and more touches. Heís always seemingly put team first. And I donít know if itís necessarily a bad thing. But he didnít want to be great, he didnít need to be great. And all time greats need to have at least a little bit of selfishness in order to be great.

    Sheed never put up regular seasons or playoff performances that Anthony Davis has. Anthony Davis has put up all NBA seasons. Heís put up great playoff numbers. Sheed was always content with playing second, third, or even fourth fiddle. Anthony Davis is closer to Tim Duncan and KG than he is to Sheed. And Sheed is closer to Kenyon Martin or Lamar Odom than is to Anthony Davis.
    Both Rasheed and Davis have lower commitment to Basketball than Tim/KG. KG and Rasheed were lower IQ/headcases but KG had elite athleticism

    So Rasheed ranks near the bottom of multiple measurements. There's a reason he was on his 4th team by age 31.

    He would be more successful in today's Era. Instead he joined and played during arguably the golden age of Power Forwards. He had the best 3point shot of the 4 before mentioned players.

    Where does Chris Bosh fall in this discussion?

  9. #59
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    So Rasheed ranks near the bottom of multiple measurements. There's a reason he was on his 4th team by age 31.
    Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

    You realize that he only played for the Wizards for 1 year right? And for the Hawks for literally ONE game in February 2004.

    The ONLY team he actually wore out his welcome on was the Jailblazers who wanted a culture overhaul by the end of 2003. He wasn't some Ron Artest or Stephen Jackson guy who kept getting chances only to squander them and wear out his welcome faster than he could put on his underwear.

  10. #60
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Where does Chris Bosh fall in this discussion?
    Not even in the same continent.

    Bosh barely led his team to the playoffs every other year (and lost in the first round every time he did) as the #1 on the team that drafted him, and only played for one other team, was a distant #3 on a couple championship Heatles teams, and had a short career and retired young.

  11. #61
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Not even in the same continent.

    Bosh barely led his team to the playoffs every other year (and lost in the first round every time he did) as the #1 on the team that drafted him, and only played for one other team, was a distant #3 on a couple championship Heatles teams, and had a short career and retired young.
    This surprised me, so I had to look it up. Looks like he only made the playoffs twice in seven years in Toronto, and was 3-8. He's one of a lot of guys who can put up big numbers between the 20s.

  12. #62
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    This surprised me, so I had to look it up. Looks like he only made the playoffs twice in seven years in Toronto, and was 3-8. He's one of a lot of guys who can put up big numbers between the 20s.
    Nice football analogy

    Iso Joe Johnson was another one of "those guys" from that era. Melo too, to an extent. Westbrick is "that guy" this era.

  13. #63
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

    You realize that he only played for the Wizards for 1 year right? And for the Hawks for literally ONE game in February 2004.

    The ONLY team he actually wore out his welcome on was the Jailblazers who wanted a culture overhaul by the end of 2003. He wasn't some Ron Artest or Stephen Jackson guy who kept getting chances only to squander them and wear out his welcome faster than he could put on his underwear.
    He wore out his welcome in the place he played 90% of his games before the Age of 30? Not sure that's a good reflection on him. Even if Detroit didn't come calling that soon, you think he would have lasted more than 1 season with the Hawks?

    Take a look at the package Atlanta acquired in exchange for a 29-year old Rasheed Wallace...

  14. #64
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Most public personalities are awful people trying to act like good nice guys (jordan, zeke, kobe). Rasheed is the opposite where he is, by all accounts, a nice guy but had this public perception of him being a terrible person. Barkley had that in him but he’s now a rather loveable and popular guy.

  15. #65
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Most public personalities are awful people trying to act like good nice guys (jordan, zeke, kobe). Rasheed is the opposite where he is, by all accounts, a nice guy but had this public perception of him being a terrible person. Barkley had that in him but he’s now a rather loveable and popular guy.
    Rasheed didn't like reporters and he didn't like officials. The people that dislike Rasheed because of that also don't like reporters and officials.

  16. #66
    coffee's for closers FrostKing's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone dislikes Rasheed, maybe just see a wasted/untapped talent. He ultimately solidified his legacy with those Celtics as a strong teammate and winner.

    But we are comparing him to Hall of Famers and well Rasheed just falls short. A goofy almost gentle giant type IMO.

  17. #67
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Fact is, based on talent and skill and natural gifts, Anthony Davis sits at the same table as Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett.
    I'm sorry but I don't see it... Tim and KG are way better defender than AD and defense is also a matter of talent, skill and natural gifts. Scoring and rebounding are probably the only aspect of his game comparable to Tim, all the rest is not even close in particular on the defensive side.

  18. #68
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    Oh wow. Sheed never had a playoff performance like Anthony Davis had??

    Those 04 and 05 Pistons aren't in those Finals without Sheed. Period.

    Anthony Davis' best playoff performance came after a month or so vacation before the playoffs started and that ring is the biggest asterisk in sports and that Miami team was terribly over matched. And Jokic absolutely cooked him and put him and the rest of the league on notice that Davis is definitely on the downside of his career.

  19. #69
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    Next season could easily be the last shot for these Lakers. If LeBron is true to his word about playing with Bronny the Lakers are screwed. Bronny is likely a FRP and the Lakers don't have one next year. I could definitely see a borderline playoff team taking Bronny just to get LBJ on some cheap deal for a year or two and that will be all she wrote for this iteration of the Lakers.

  20. #70
    Against Public Schooling Millennial_Messiah's Avatar
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    Next season could easily be the last shot for these Lakers. If LeBron is true to his word about playing with Bronny the Lakers are screwed. Bronny is likely a FRP and the Lakers don't have one next year. I could definitely see a borderline playoff team taking Bronny just to get LBJ on some cheap deal for a year or two and that will be all she wrote for this iteration of the Lakers.
    If it's a really ty media market like the Hornets or Pelicans, do you foresee him actually going there?

    I honestly hope these Lakers are done and cooked. Sick of the bandwagoner era. Glad a home grown team won a championship for a change. I guess in 2021 the Bucks too. But before that? All bandwagon teams since 2014.

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