Think he goes to the sixth man role then...We gonna need a good strong small foward helping defend along with wemby...Doesnt seem kd not the man for the job is what ur saying...Its gotta be sochan who starts with wemby
I agree with Chinook, article has me more worried about the direction. The next month shouldn't be that difficult.
- Extend Vassell (assuming his injury isn't serious)
- Lock up Tre Jones as a solid back up
- Explore a trade to get another lottery pick for a PG such as Wallace/Black (only if it's not an overpay)
- Make an offer to a big in FA (Jakob/Lopez/etc), move on with Collins if they decline.
I think most of Spurstalk has similar views. This isn't rocket science.
Vassell was a solid defender in years 1 and 2 and fell off in year 3, where he took off offensively and with good efficiency.
keldon has been a poor defender every year.
for Vassell, the variable is if he can go back to at least the level of defense we’ve already seen. With keldon the variables include becoming a better defender than he’s ever shown to be (plus increasing his offensive efficiency)
Vassell is also a much better playmaker than keldon. It’s a question of health. If the spurs were willing to extend Murray with a torn ACL they certainly should extend vassell
And screw “waiting and seeing what wemby is.” If Vassell is a good talent, get him locked up now. If you later determine for whatever reason he doesn’t work with wemby, you can trade him. Why wait on an extension and then either lose him for nothing or have to pay him even more than what you could just give him now? Even with the wemby paradigm, still have to manage your assets well
feel the same way about Zollins. Centers with that kind of size and offensive ability don’t show up everywhere. We gambled with the 3 year deal. It paid off. Capitalize on it. Whats the point of having a successful 3 year deal on a team not even trying to win during that 3 year window?
Agree to all the above except going after a big in FA.
Can we just hire Dieng as an assistant coach so we can free up a spot on the roster?
Also, such a shame on the Khem Birch front. He was the best backup 4 for the team on 2K
Spurs will make a huge mistake if they dont make moves to win now,,,,,the kid has even said he wants to compete for champions very soon. You dont do that by stockpiling picks and waiting for youngsters to develop. Spurs need to make a splash with some of those picks and land a proven all star player.
It’s weird bc I think Sochan is the perfect fit for Wemby 3 years from now. Currently he doesn’t match well with Wemby at all since Wemby will be playing PF on defense and Sochan is too small to be a C on defense. Collins and Wemby match perfectly currently. But in 3 years when Wemby gets muscle and nba strength then he could slide over to the C on defense and Sochan will be our PF.
Sochan is a PF and always will be. It’s what he’s best suited for. But I think you have to bench him for the coming years until he learns to shoot. Also Devin can stay but KJ has to go. Unless he too comes off the bench.
Personally, I feel like the only starters we have on the team are Wemby and Collins. Otherwise we need to get some more talent.
A lot of details to be worked out but I’m looking at this more simply. Avoid keeping/paying key players unless they can also play defense.
A few exceptions, like if Branham’s offense continues to show high upside. That means McD would probably have to go, and perhaps could be cheaply replaced by Champagnie—just spitballing. I’d keep Tre Jones at a backup salary rate if possible because he’s a good backup and understands defense.
There’s no way you can trade both KJ and DV, but national media seems to think they both play good defense, and so their trade value may be peaking, I definitely agree with that, and with greater expectations and scrutiny the holes in their game may be exposed to a degree.
But we’ll see.
So what is Wemby a SF, PF, C? It doesn’t really matter as I said earlier he can play what ever position he wants on offense and can defend against everyone but big brutes. I think him and Wemby will be a good pairing now Sochan might go to the bench when we play tough bigs like Joker and Embid otherwise he can guard most Centers in the league. As far as Collins I like him but I am thinking he is fools gold regarding his injuries I do not see him guarding Joker or Embid and I don’t know how much run he has before another season ending injury. Now with Keldon I am torn I think he is a great teammate who contributes to team chemistry. I think he would make a great sixth man kinda like our own Energizer Bunny. Sign Tre to a very friendly deal, let Landford go way to inconsistent, KBD not sure about him but for sure he is not part of long term plans.
I really do not want to get any big free agents I want to see Wemby play the whole season and grade out the players that play with him. As far as bringing in free agents do not want Poodle as he will clog the lane
Last edited by BackHome; 05-30-2023 at 12:08 AM.
If you think Wemby and Collins are the only starting caliber players on the team at present, then the good news is we have a -of-a strong bench!
Pick up the one best F/A you can get this summer and it's a huge win. Then pick up another one best F/A you can get next year along with what we can strengthen via our first rounders and we have a -of-a team next year.
Eh, I could have been clearer but I don't have more confidence in Keldon than Vassell. If I had to pick one, I'd go with Vassell.
Since Keldon already signed his extension, I looked at whether he's a fit. Vassell's assessment was based on whether to pay him big bucks on an extension. Regarding that, I'm more hesitant now after Wemby ... but I'd still sign him to a Keldon-esque deal.
Move on from Tre
Move up in the draft for another PG like Wallace or Black and move on from Tre.
rookie pg, Graham, Wesley is good enough with branham spotlighting at pg
You don’t have to pick one. It’s not like these are immovable assets unless they get hit by serious injury. It’s not like keldon has negative value right now.
That’s your ‘19, ‘20, ‘22, and ‘23 FRP. Built through the draftA fivesome of Branham, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan and Wembanyama could theoretically become Pop’s preferred closing lineup.
saw KJ playing in China.. he is a street balla..
Very interesting article, but count me in the worried about the direction camp as well.
I thought there were too many likely to come back players. I understand the Spurs trying to be somewhat conservative in the first year or two, but they need to be more proactive when it comes to the roster construction, because many players will have to change in order to fit roles around a hopefully blossoming MVP in a few years. I don't see either of Barlow or Champagnie returning unless on a two-way contract. Can't see Langford, KBD, Dieng or Birch taking up a roster spot either. Birch's contract might be used in a trade but if not I fully expect him to be bought out before the season starts. Disregarding all of the mentioned players, the Spurs have 9 roster spots taken up, with two more likely to return (Tre, Mamu). So we have 4 spots available for potentially another rookie, free agent signings and possible 2 or 3 for 1 trades.
Of course aggressive trading could change this calculation, and I'm inclined to believe they will try to do so, because as currently constructed the roster doesn't fit well at all with a PF Wemby. There's not enough shooting, there's not enough penetration and rim pressure, there's not enough perimeter defense. I'm also incredibly surprised at the continued proposition of Sochan as a PG. It's great having that as a change of pace but can't see it full time, it's a gimmick, unless his game changes significantly.
That said, I imagine the FO plan consists of a continued roster development and change, because what the team have and need now would probably be different than what they'll need in 3 years, or in 5 years. It's not unreasonable to think that no player, except for Wemby, would be on the roster in 5 years when the team would hopefully be contending. We often comment on current players as if there will be a significant number of them developing together with Wemby in a similar way that Tony, Manu and Bruce were around Tim for a long time, but this seems highly unlikely.
So, I understand them trying to see what they have and how players might fit for the future and, say Keldon's fit in year one, isn't that important in the grand scheme of things - it's more about how the team would evolve. For example, a lot of the pure shooters like McDermott and Graham would ideally be eventually replaced by true 3 and D players, but for now they're OK on a team that desperately needs shooting and spacing for a young Wemby. They'll also have to think about what the ideal construction would be in light of the new CBA. Having so many future picks available to them would be very helpful in this because they may need to wheel and deal a lot, especially before Wemby signs his max extension (hopefully).
All in all, it'll be super interesting and exciting watching them develop and build the roster. Let's hope they're successful and that the players stay healthy.
Man, why are a few people ting themselves over this opportunity? No one's using up tons of assets to remake this roster overnight. That's insane.
And why do people think Wembanyama is some center where we're going to be running 4-down play after play? Wembanyama is going to provide spacing for forays into the lane by other players. They're going to run pick-and-rolls and plenty of other actions, but this ain't the Duncan-era. He's not that player. He likes to range the perimeter. He'll drag their bigs out as often as he moves inside.
Settle down.
#Tank4Collier
Have you been hiding from covid in the desert or forest from 2020 to 2022 without the Internet and TV?
He played well in off-ball defense both seasons and showed good stretches of on-ball defense even in the third season. But in order to understand this, of course, you need not only to watch the games, but also to understand the topic.
Thanks for the article. I've barely watched Spurs played last season so I can't/won't comment on your players' evaluation.
There is obviously the trap of overpaying for players putting good stats with a bad team. Vassell and Jones have nice numbers but how much are they inflated by playing with arguably the worst team in the league?
Salary wise, there will be a new TV deal in 2025 and it should be a huge one. With the new CBA, it means that the salary cap is a lock to raise by 10% each year for a foreseeable future. Salary cap is projected at $134M in 2023-2024. You can guesstimate a $145M cap in 2024-2025. After that it will be $160M in 2025-2026, $176M in 2026-2027, $194M in 2027-2028...
Giving Tre Jone $40M/4 years with a frontloaded contract means that is 2026-2027 salary would be $8.7M. That's about 5% of the cap which seems reasonable even if he is only a backup PG. Saying that, a deal like $30M/2 years might be a win/win for the sides.
If Wemby becomes a dominant scorer, shooting alongside him will be crucial. He is a good passer and smart player so he should be able to punish double-teaming with the right teammates. The difficulty would be to get players that are than just shooters. More McDermott isn't obviously the answer.
Sochan PG skills might allow Spurs to play some minutes with a combo guard instead of a PG. One can imagine something like Spurs in 2015 with Manu being the half court PG and Mills being a shooter/scorer.
Gorgui Dieng speak some french even if it isn't his native language. It's noteworthy if you want to re-sign him as guide/mentor for Wemby.
Even if Wemby turns to be as good as we all hope for, it will take some times for him to reach that level and it will also takes some times to build a compe ive roster. Mistakes will be made, some players viewed as good prospects won't pan out. A lot of players will need to be added through the draft, free agency and trades. It's just the beginning.
Vassell - keeper - extend him to a declining deal with about 2 million more per year than Keldon, that should be realistic
Keldon - should keep him for now, but if you can get someone like Jaylen Brown you trade him
Sochan - keeper
Branham - keeper
Tre Jones - keeper as a back up PG. Lock him into a declining deal like 10, 10, 8, 8. Thats the maximum I would give him.
Zollins - let him play this season, then either work out an extension around January for a reasonable price or let him hit FA
Champagnie - keeper - lock him into a Bassey type of deal, he should be able to replace Doug pretty well
McDermott - trade at the deadline
Graham - trade at the deadline
Dieng - make him part of the coaching staff
Wesley - let him get NBA minutes. I wouldn't just park him in the G-League. He can bounce back and forth, he's a long term project
Barlow - 2-way deal
Bassey - locked into a great contract
KBD - let him go, he's never gonna be more than a 3rd stringer
Langford - let him go, might be out of the league soon
Mamu - bring him back as an end of the bench guy around 1.5 to 2.5 million. Good value for a 3rd stringer
Birch - will never play, just salary ballast
Then you grab another first rounder for a PG, maybe sign a vet C even though I don't think that's totally neccessary. Maybe see if you can sign Grant Williams, Austin Reaves or Cam Johnson on a good deal (the last 2 gonna get paid too much I think). Take on a bad contract for more assets. And then you wait and see how the Jaylen Brown in Boston and Doncic in Dallas situations work out and make more moves next offseason.
It's really not that hard
^
I agree with everything except for Jaylen Brown part.
He's not good enough for a supermax deal, not even close. And I doubt he'd take anything less.
50 million a year for a guy who's not good enough to be a consistent second option on a contender? Pass.
30-35 would be reasonable, he's not worth more than that.
And he's "already" 27, so he'd be 30 by the time Spurs hit their window and then you'd have to give him another big deal.
I'd keep an eye out for Anthony Edwards. They'll probably get rid of KAT, but if that trade doesn't help them, I can see Edwards wanting out.
I highly doubt that he would get the supermax from the Celtics. Other teams can obviously offer the max, but not the supermax. Add to that that we have cap space to utilize as long as Wemby is on a rookie deal and with the increasing cap the contract might look a lot better later down the line. Now I don't know if you can frontload that deal, but that would make it even better. I'm not stuck on Jaylen coming here and also think he's not worth the money, I'm just looking at that type of scenario. The Spurs can bring in a guy that they overpay until Wemby is due for his extension. Another reason why I'm saying they should frontload the contracts of "the other guys"
Spurs might add a flashy FA or move up in the draft and it wouldn't surprise me. But I think the realistic expectation is to retain corporate knowledge in true Spurs fashion. If so the roster is largely set:
Jones/Graham/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/McDermott/Bates-Diop/[Champagnie]
Sochan/Wembanyama/Mamu/[Barlow]
Zollins/Bassey/(Birch)
That's 14 so if they pick #33 and keep the preexisting two-ways they get one more two-way and then that's it. Just don't see a big Jaylen Brown type splash but not against it and not ruling anything out. Could see a smaller typical SA move like stealing Jaxson Hayes to fortify the bigs rotation.
I think Spurs have enough ball handlers already outside just some additional depth to optimize.
Spurs are better than they look, people are tainted by the tank season but that was deliberate losing efforts and even still look at the Nuggets game late season. NBA Finals future DEN was full strength and played hard and Spurs hung with the big dogs. I think people are underestimating the pre existing core a lot and getting dazzle eyes for a big splashy move but maybe we already got our guys barring some PG and C depth optimization.
I have been trying to solve the starting 5 and have settled on Victor off the bench. Retains the best chemistry starting 5 (Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Zollins), resolves the issue of playing people out of position (Sochan is not a PG, Victor is not a C), preserves the wear and tear management of Victor, and bolsters the bench.
Eventually working Victor to the Starting 5 asap but at least starting out it's a great way to ease in and see what you've got both with Victor as well as the surrounding complimentary pieces.
Another issue no one has mentioned is foul trouble. Victor is going to be an incredible player on the court but he's only got 6 fouls just like everyone else and he is no use to SA benched in foul trouble. If you play Victor at C, or if you start Victor against NBA starters, he is liable to rack up quick fouls. Bring him off the bench at first to help manage this until it shows it's not a problem. And run Victor at PF or SF. With Victor as PF you run a 4:3 P&R with a SF as the roll guy and let Victor stay out of the paint and be a quarterback hub for the offense. Branham cutters fed by Victor.
Seems so unorthodox to not start a #1 pick so I don't think I've seen many suggest this, but it would be true Spurs fashion to pull this and once you get over the optics it's a really workable solution that checks the most boxes. Try it out in your sims and see.
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