I think it is absolutely possible and, in fact, likely that Doncic wants out of Dallas in the future. Dallas is botching their efforts to surround him with winning talent. They screwed up Brunson. They traded away their best defenders to get Irving, who will likely leave them in the offseason or Dallas will overpay him to stay and he never looked like he played well with Doncic. They fired the GM he wanted and I think Jason Kidd is respected by players, but I don't think he coaches good enough.
Dallas just doesn't have a lot of avenues to rebuild and they can't get free agents to go to Dallas. Plus, Doncic is not like other Euros who have more loyalty to the teams that draft them, even if they are in frigid states. Doncic reminds me more of US players, in both good and bad ways. I could totally see him wanting out, I just don't know if he'd want a trade to S.A. And I highly doubt Dallas would trade him to S.A. Cuban would not stand for that.
I don't
They don't possess exceptional skills in shooting or quickness or athleticism that all stars have.
I see both as marginal average players, non go to all star caliber players.
Vassell has already been in the league 3 years so I don't see much more improvement with him.
Sochan is still young but still doesn't look like he has the skillset to be a high volume go to scorer.
Sochan is highly overrated in here which is not surprising since it is a Spurs site.
Last edited by rascal; 06-06-2023 at 11:09 AM.
vassell showed a lot of improvement in year 3, at least offensively, so i'm not sure we see eye to eye there. he increased his volume without sacrificing any efficiency. he has clearly gotten stronger which has helped him become a better iso scorer in the midrange. even getting his assists up to 3.6 per game is pretty good for a wing in his first year of having notable on-ball duties (previously was the dejounte/derozan show in his time in the nba). he's just about to turn 23.
his season 2 and season 3 production can be compared to khris middleton, who was an older player than him (was 24 in year 3 whereas vassell was 22).
middleton didnt make his first all star team until he was 27 years old, which for vassell would be the 2027-2028 season. doenst really look like his game is capped either. his ball handling has gotten better, but still not good enough for him to be able to really draw fouls and get to the line. thats an easy way for him to increase his scoring efficiency, as he is a good FT shooter. his defense also tailed off last year, and we know he can be better there.
Last edited by spurraider21; 06-06-2023 at 11:17 AM.
I mean, at this point it is becoming quite clear you are just trying to uphold your persona. A year when players like Jokic and Butler led their respective teams to the finals, in an age when a guy like Doncic is undoubtedly one of the top 5 players in the league, you are talking about exceptional skills in shooting, quickness or athleticism being prerequisites to being all stars?
This year, the following players made the All-NBA teams - Doncic, Tatum, Jokic, Butler, Sabonis, and Randle.
I am not even understanding your obsession with crazy athletes. It was funny at first, at some point it just gets annoying.
If Wembanyama hits his projected ceiling of best player in the league, then the Nuggets become a comparable if they can find a second best player the caliber of Murray (who granted has went from top starter to All-NBA his past two playoffs), because Vassell (Porter Jr.) and Sochan (Gordon) should suffice as third and fourth best players in that scenario.
If Wemby can stay healthy then our rebuild will be done in two or three years - I think we just need a Good dependable PG who can hit open shots, throw lobs, hit cutting players, take it to the rim, be a decent three point shooter, and a good defender. A Big Athletic Center who can move his feet and has a good mid range game, rebound, and block shots. A big bonus would be a top 10 SF pick hopefully from Atlanta, Chicago - Someone who has it all length, IQ, offense, and defense, and character..
What I want the Spurs to do is double down on defensive players please no more Mills, or Forbes - offensive player who suck on defense
I believe you underestimate the power a star like Doncic has with one year left on his contract. If Luka says he wants to go to SA, Cuban won't have any choice. All Luka will have to do (his agent actually) is telling everyone he won't renew with anyone else than SA and no one will trade for him. Cuban won't keep a disgruntled star in his team who will leave for nothing one year later...He'll trade him to SA for a ransom.
That trade was excellent for New Orleans, Anthony Davis would shortly be gone regardless, and they managed a load of assets: Ingram (best player in the franchise), Lonzo (was doing great until his career was derailed by injuries), Josh Hart (useful role player), a no. 4 pick in 2019, a no. 8 pick in 2022, an unprotected pick in 2024 (likely mid teens), and a '23 swap that would have given them a good pick if they didn't suck. Whether they used those assets wisely is another discussion, but the trade in itself was great and I wouldn't call it a huge win for the Lakers even if a championship came out of it (and several years of misery).
If the Spurs don't have the cap room by then (3 years from now, we won't), then Dallas absolutely holds a lot of leverage because we couldn't get a hold of him without Dallas trading him to us, which may not be enough to stop a trade from happening, but certainly to suck you dry of promising youth and assets.
I think you're hugely underrating how much a le means and how hard it is to win one. A borderline All-Star in Ingram, three picks (that the Lakers would blow anyways), and change isn't worth a le to you? They weren't winning a le with Ingram instead of Davis, he puts up empty numbers and isn't anywhere near the defender Davis is.
There's two sides to that deal, I think New Orleans extracted every drop of value they possibly could when they didn't seem to have that much leverage, even if they managed to screw it up somewhat later. As far as the Lakers are concerned, I do acknowledge that a championship is a huge milestone and for most franchises would be worth it, but I'd also point out that the cir stances of that le were very peculiar, and I don't think they necessarily would have won in a regular year. In hindsight you're right, but honestly I prefer building a contender organically and guaranteeing many years of deep playoff runs (in the hopes of eventually making it) over going the blockbuster route which ends up in disaster 9 times of 10, and even when it doesn't it comes at a very high cost (which the Lakers have been paying ever since).
You find one of the few examples that worked and worked only because of covid. How many times have teams tried this failed and ended up in a much worse situation. Brooklyn, Phoenix, Houston, clippers.
You look at the good teams that are not leverged and have been close several times even if not winning. Miwaukee, Denver, Phily, Boston, GS.
You look at teams that have won multiple Spurs, lakers, GS. These for the most part have been built teams not trading for stars. So yes I would rather build the team then go all in trying to win for 1 year.
The disgruntled star does not all of a sudden become a happy player. Look at how many times Labron, KD, KI, CP3, Paul George have moved throughout their careers. They are happy for a some time but eventually become unhappy and want what they want. Build a team together and let them grow together. That is how you win multile championships. Just like I see so many people wanting named players not good players.
Meh that's how Boston won a le and made another Finals. It's how Miami won one. It's how Toronto won one. It's how LA won five. I'm not trading four picks for Rudy Gobert but if Doncic, Giannis, someone like that becomes available yeah dump your pics to get them.
The Pels definitely did better getting value for AD than we did for Neph
I think the trade that makes the most sense is Johnson to Orlando for a first with other assets to move to the 6th pick or straight up for their later pick.
We need Keldon and Vassell to carry the majority of the offensive load for at least Wembys first year. A cohesive team and limited responsibilities are exactly how you break in your franchise player.
Dumping Keldon for an unknown is a bad idea at this point. There is no guarantee that you’ll get a player as good as Keldon at 6 or later anyway. You’d also spend a couple years finding that out.
I completely get moving Keldon for a shot at Scoot but I don’t think it’s a smart move to trade his production for a mid to late lottery on the hope you got something that can develop into more production later.
The time to make a trade like that is Wembys 2nd or 3rd year.
I agree with this. I'd assess what we have with those two and the new lineup before making changes with either player. Keldon's on a good deal, and hopefully we'll get Devin on a decent contract for both him and the Spurs. I think both guys are going to elevate their games with Wemby out there.
Tim still deferred to the Admiral his first year or so in the league, and I'd expect Wemby to need at least a couple of years without the weight of being "the man" on his shoulders while he acclimates to rigors of the NBA.
Keldon isn't going anywhere. He's all over the Spurs media at all these different events. Nobody is going anywhere.
Not likely this summer, anyway.
Still don't see it next year either. How many times have the spurs traded a VERY good locker room guy on an amazing contract. Just doesn't happen. We're probably going to trade up and draft a PG and roll with it-
I really do think Keldon will be moved eventually. There's just no good fit between him and Sochan on the starting unit. No, Sochan cannot play point guard. The other solution is Wmby at central big and Sochan as PF, but we'll see.
I'd trade Johnson if I could get Anthony Black this draft, otherwise keep.
Derrick White
Well we'll know soon if they pulled the trigger on moving up or not. If not, a 33 pick is it and that won't be for a Wemby running mate. Starting to believe we will roll with Wemby, Vassell, KJ, Sochan, and ZC.
Derrick White. 18 months ago.
People, we need a point guard. Sochan is not going to be defending point guards.
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